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pzummo

Let's Lay Something To Rest

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A QB can NOT carry an entire NFL team.

2017 Philly won SB with a backup QB.  3rd overall rushing offense.  1st overall rushing defense.  4th overall total defense.

2016 Patriots had the 3rd ranked rush defense, 8th overall defense, and 1st overall scoring defense.

2015 Broncos had #1 overall defense, #1 passing defense, and #3 rushing defense.

Rodgers has 1 SB win.  GB had the #5 overall defense, #4 pass defense, 2nd most interceptions, and 2nd most sacks that season.

Drew Brees has 1 SB win.  NO's had the 3rd most interceptions, most defensive TD's, 7th ranked passing defense, and 12th ranked rushing defense that season.

 

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I don't think referring to Nick Foles as a 'backup' is really right.  The guy has proven time and again he's no backup, and really should've been Philly's starter this whole season because every game he's played since Wentz went down, he's been the better qb. 

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Basically you're saying Atlanta should give up on winning a Superbowl because we'll never have a top defense or a dominant offensive line. 

I'd love to be in the meetings with TD every year when he lays down his plan for the Oline.. He does the same things every year and expects different results 

Edited by ⚡Slumerican⚡
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Anyone who's watched football for any real length of time already knows this.  Some just listen to the talking heads to make you believe certain QBs carry their teams.

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7 minutes ago, octoslash said:

I don't think referring to Nick Foles as a 'backup' is really right.  The guy has proven time and again he's no backup, and really should've been Philly's starter this whole season because every game he's played since Wentz went down, he's been the better qb. 

Foles has been a career back up though, so its the only way you can really describe him. The only year he really was an effective starter was that one year in Philly when he threw like 30 tds and 2 ints. 

I aint taking anything away from Foles and winning his superbowl. But i think the point being made is Philly getting a ring last year was way more than just thanks to a QB's performance. Think they averaged like 6 yards a carry in the Superbowl, pretty useful when you run an RPO offense.

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37 minutes ago, octoslash said:

I don't think referring to Nick Foles as a 'backup' is really right.  The guy has proven time and again he's no backup, and really should've been Philly's starter this whole season because every game he's played since Wentz went down, he's been the better qb. 

He's certainly not an every game starting QB. 

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Agreed, a really great defense and running attack (Oline) can win a SB with a bad QB, although it is difficult. 

A great QB can carry a team at times, but is never going to win it all with a terrible D and Oline.

The quickest way to kill a good team is to have a bad QB.  The QB can't win it all, but they sure can mess it up fast.

The most important player on a team, all things being equal, is the QB, but that doesn't mean all you need is a great one.  Its a team sport.

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54 minutes ago, ⚡Slumerican⚡ said:

Basically you're saying Atlanta should give up on winning a Superbowl because we'll never have a top defense or a dominant offensive line. 

I'd love to be in the meetings with TD every year when he lays down his plan for the Oline.. He does the same things every year and expects different results 

Off the top of my head I can think of two teams that won the SB with bad QB's.  The Redskins back in the '90s with a bad back up QB (who one SB MVP if Im not mistaken) and the Ravens with Trent Dilfer.

There have been dozens of good teams that have lost because their QB wasn't very good or hurt the team.

There has never been a team that has won it solely on the play of the QB and there are piles of evidence to demonstrate this (I'm talking about Brady, Rodgers, Manning (both of them) and Brees).

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I guess we ignore the fact that those teams had strong offenses too. I mean it's not like the 2000 Ravens. We should have beat the Pats in 2016. Instead we beat ourselves. 

It takes balance to win, unless you have something of the all time great variety. The Panthers have had top defenses. No rings. Jacksonville had the perfect recipe last year, but lost in the AFCCG. Texans had the best defense in 2016. Dallas is following the model most people on here want and they honestly don't look as strong of a team. Just got shutout by the colts. 

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3 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Didn’t brees and Peyton Manning have bad defenses in the years they won the sb?  Referring to manning in Indy, not denver

The Saints had a better than average D when they won it. The Saints D was particularly good at getting takeaways that year. 

The Colts D was terrible against the run, but was #2 against the pass. Overall they were #23 in team defense. Manning was on fire that year, and most teams had to pass to compete.  

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16 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Didn’t brees and Peyton Manning have bad defenses in the years they won the sb?  Referring to manning in Indy, not denver

The year Manning went - they were a middle of the road defense - but the turnover margin was good during regular season - but the defense got really hot in the post season - and they were #1 in yards per game, #2 in points per game behind Baltimore, #1 in forced fumbles and fumble recoveries.   They allowed 16.2 points per game.

The year Brees  won was the year of Bounty gate - enough said.   They took the ball away a lot during the year - which helped the offense tremendously.    #3 in interceptions, #5 in recovered fumbles, #1 in defensive touchdowns, #13 in sacks, 

 

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4 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Didn’t brees and Peyton Manning have bad defenses in the years they won the sb?  Referring to manning in Indy, not denver

NO's had a very good defense.  If you go by total yards, they were 20th overall.  That being said, they were 3rd overall in TO margin.  Their defense held QB's to the 3rd lowest efficiency in the league, an abysmal 68.6 QB Rating.  They only gave up 15 passing TD's compared to 26 INT's.  That went along with 35 sacks and the 5th most recovered fumbles.  They generated turnovers in bunches.  They also held to 14, 28, and 17 points in their 3 Playoff games that season. 

Yards stats are very misleading.  I still don't understand why we use that as the measuring stick.  

Indy did not have a very good defense that season.  That being said, they got healthy and were awesome during the Playoffs.  Indy won their Playoff games 23-8, 15-6, 38-34 (at home vs New England), and 29-17.  3 out of the 4 Playoff games they allowed 17 or less.  That was back when they had Freeney, Mathis, Bob Sanders, Bethea, and a bunch of other really good playmakers.  I can't remember them all right now.

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Just now, TheUsualStuff said:

Just curious... who exactly has said a QB can carry an entire team... especially one with no rushing game or defense?

Every single poster constantly blaming Ryan for us not having a SB trophy while riding Rodgers, Brees, and Brady's jockstrap.

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There’s only 2 times I’ve ever seen a QB come close to “carrying” a team to a super bowl. Manning in 2006 and Brees in 2009. Rodgers is maybe a close 3rd but his entire team was playing out of this world. Every other time, a QB has been apart of the process or even in some circumstances, been there for the ride 

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38 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Didn’t brees and Peyton Manning have bad defenses in the years they won the sb?  Referring to manning in Indy, not denver

One of those Eli Manning Giants teams had a horrible defense as well and won it all. I think it was the last time they won it. 

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Just now, pzummo said:

Every single poster constantly blaming Ryan for us not having a SB trophy while riding Rodgers, Brees, and Brady's jockstrap.

And then Ryan puts up QB stats for the ages when he finally gets to a SB and the team around him disintegrates on both sides of the ball. QB's can not win anything by themselves.

Either everything has to be clicking at just the right time, or enough things are clicking to compensate for any weakness. All that said, while we are in the era of offense I'd still prefer to have a dominant D for our next SB game.

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36 minutes ago, 4dabirds said:

The Saints had a better than average D when they won it. The Saints D was particularly good at getting takeaways that year. 

The Colts D was terrible against the run, but was #2 against the pass. Overall they were #23 in team defense. Manning was on fire that year, and most teams had to pass to compete.  

 

33 minutes ago, Tandy said:

The year Manning went - they were a middle of the road defense - but the turnover margin was good during regular season - but the defense got really hot in the post season - and they were #1 in yards per game, #2 in points per game behind Baltimore, #1 in forced fumbles and fumble recoveries.   They allowed 16.2 points per game.

The year Brees  won was the year of Bounty gate - enough said.   They took the ball away a lot during the year - which helped the offense tremendously.    #3 in interceptions, #5 in recovered fumbles, #1 in defensive touchdowns, #13 in sacks, 

 

 

20 minutes ago, pzummo said:

NO's had a very good defense.  If you go by total yards, they were 20th overall.  That being said, they were 3rd overall in TO margin.  Their defense held QB's to the 3rd lowest efficiency in the league, an abysmal 68.6 QB Rating.  They only gave up 15 passing TD's compared to 26 INT's.  That went along with 35 sacks and the 5th most recovered fumbles.  They generated turnovers in bunches.  They also held to 14, 28, and 17 points in their 3 Playoff games that season. 

Yards stats are very misleading.  I still don't understand why we use that as the measuring stick.  

Indy did not have a very good defense that season.  That being said, they got healthy and were awesome during the Playoffs.  Indy won their Playoff games 23-8, 15-6, 38-34 (at home vs New England), and 29-17.  3 out of the 4 Playoff games they allowed 17 or less.  That was back when they had Freeney, Mathis, Bob Sanders, Bethea, and a bunch of other really good playmakers.  I can't remember them all right now.

 

4 minutes ago, FalconinPA said:

One of those Eli Manning Giants teams had a horrible defense as well and won it all. I think it was the last time they won it. 

Too many of you to respond to so i'll just give a simple thanks.

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I saw something that indicated 14 out of the last 25 SB Champs had Top 10 Offenses and Defenses.

If we would have won SB 51 we would have been the WORST scoring D to ever have won it.

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44 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Didn’t brees and Peyton Manning have bad defenses in the years they won the sb?  Referring to manning in Indy, not denver

Are you kidding?  The Saints that year lead the league in defensive take away's and scoring.  Two of the most important defensive stats that actually predict how good a defense is.

Manning's defense started out slow but was a terror the last quarter of the year and through the playoffs.  They held two 1100+ yard rushers during the regular season (Larry Johnson and Jamal Lewis)  to under 100 yards total in the playoffs.

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13 minutes ago, FalconinPA said:

One of those Eli Manning Giants teams had a horrible defense as well and won it all. I think it was the last time they won it. 

They had the best defensive line in football that year.  But their secondary did suck. Still, in the playoffs their defensive line terrorized QB's.

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