Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
UGABOZ

Good lord Lloyd Pierce

19 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, ATL Fan in the DMV said:

Team is a big mess, and I'm not sure Pierce is the guy to lead us out of this rebuild. 

agree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude, didn't you learn anything from last season? It should have given you the hint that it doesn't matter how good a coach you are--if you don't have the talent that can execute night in and night out it's gonna look ugly more often than not. The Bucks are suddenly a legit title contender with Coach Budenholzer. The Spurs look like they might miss the playoffs. Talent matters, and right now the Hawks are short on it.

10 hours ago, ATL Fan in the DMV said:

Team is a big mess, and I'm not sure Pierce is the guy to lead us out of this rebuild. 

Lol, you're concluding that from one game that was on the road against one of the favorites to win the Eastern Conference? Come on guys, this is silly.

blkbigdog35 and jayu70 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ATL Fan in the DMV said:

Team is a big mess, and I'm not sure Pierce is the guy to lead us out of this rebuild. 

I could have told you that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

Dude, didn't you learn anything from last season? It should have given you the hint that it doesn't matter how good a coach you are--if you don't have the talent that can execute night in and night out it's gonna look ugly more often than not. The Bucks are suddenly a legit title contender with Coach Budenholzer. The Spurs look like they might miss the playoffs. Talent matters, and right now the Hawks are short on it.

Lol, you're concluding that from one game that was on the road against one of the favorites to win the Eastern Conference? Come on guys, this is silly.

Cmon dude, I've said this long before. 

I'm not looking at just the last game - there are some serious concerns I have about Pierce and the play of the team that go far beyond "It's their first season," "Most of these guys have barely played together" "Give the guy a break over 20-odd games" "Of course they weren't going to be a good team...what did you expect?" 

These are all excuses that cover up larger problems. I'll name some since you know, called me out...

1) Turnovers. Earlier in the season, after the Hawks managed another 20+ turnover performance, Pierce said in a postgame interview that he doesnt talk to the team about the turnovers because he doesnt want to sound like a bad guy. Sure seems like it because these guys give away the ball like Oprah gives away free stuff in her shows. It's no surprise we lead the league in turnovers at 18.6/game (next closest is a distant 16.7).

2) "But, but what do you expect - it's a bunch of rookies and young guys!" Spare me. 

Bazemore? Turnovers per game are nearing career highs despite playing the fewest minutes in 4 years.

Len? Playing fewest minutes since rookie season yet is approaching career highs in turnovers.

Prince?  Posting career highs in turnovers per game per 36 minutes.

Lin? Playing fewest minutes per game since rookie year (8 years ago) but is approaching career highs in turnovers per game per 36 minutes.

I intentionally left out the rookies and used players that are logging major minutes.

3) Defense and Offense - where art thou? We do lead the league in turnovers, but we shouldn't routinely give up 35+ points per quarter. It happens nearly every game now. And on offense, Coach has already admitted that he doesn't run plays for our best player - John Collins. Our offense should funnel through him, and he's still very young and could be helped by plays being called for him. Don't get me started on the whack rotations, or waiting too long to play Young and Collins together, or letting Vince freakin Carter start too many games this season, etc etc.

Look, this team is indeed short on talent, and nothing will improve that fact except for...more talent. But this team is playing like trash right now, and Pierce is a significant reason why. This team has a long way to go before being respectable - and we all knew that going in. But they should look better than they do now, and that's plain to see.

The Hawks will get better in future years because they will have more talent. Hopefully Trae Young takes a significant jump next year and improves on his cratered efficiency, Collins is rapidly turning into a star, and hopefully at least one of Huerter/Spellman/future draft picks will ascend to near-stardom. If so, you are cooking with some grease. But to get out of the rebuild and turn toward respectability and maximize our potential, we will need a coach who can bring the best out of our team. Hopefully Pierce is the guy to do it, but early signs aren't particularly promising even considering the hand dealt to him so far.

So don't come at me about a surprises-no-one loss to the playoffs-bound Celtics on the road - Pierce needs to improve his own coaching if he is going to survive long enough to get us out of this rebuild in the shortest time possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pierce may not be the guy. He’s got to get out of player development mode and get into head coach mode. It’s largely a testament to the players ability that they’ve won the few games they’ve had without a coach that knows how to minimize their weaknesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ATL Fan in the DMV said:

Cmon dude, I've said this long before. 

I'm not looking at just the last game - there are some serious concerns I have about Pierce and the play of the team that go far beyond "It's their first season," "Most of these guys have barely played together" "Give the guy a break over 20-odd games" "Of course they weren't going to be a good team...what did you expect?" 

These are all excuses that cover up larger problems. I'll name some since you know, called me out...

1) Turnovers. Earlier in the season, after the Hawks managed another 20+ turnover performance, Pierce said in a postgame interview that he doesnt talk to the team about the turnovers because he doesnt want to sound like a bad guy. Sure seems like it because these guys give away the ball like Oprah gives away free stuff in her shows. It's no surprise we lead the league in turnovers at 18.6/game (next closest is a distant 16.7).

2) "But, but what do you expect - it's a bunch of rookies and young guys!" Spare me. 

Bazemore? Turnovers per game are nearing career highs despite playing the fewest minutes in 4 years.

Len? Playing fewest minutes since rookie season yet is approaching career highs in turnovers.

Prince?  Posting career highs in turnovers per game per 36 minutes.

Lin? Playing fewest minutes per game since rookie year (8 years ago) but is approaching career highs in turnovers per game per 36 minutes.

I intentionally left out the rookies and used players that are logging major minutes.

3) Defense and Offense - where art thou? We do lead the league in turnovers, but we shouldn't routinely give up 35+ points per quarter. It happens nearly every game now. And on offense, Coach has already admitted that he doesn't run plays for our best player - John Collins. Our offense should funnel through him, and he's still very young and could be helped by plays being called for him. Don't get me started on the whack rotations, or waiting too long to play Young and Collins together, or letting Vince freakin Carter start too many games this season, etc etc.

Look, this team is indeed short on talent, and nothing will improve that fact except for...more talent. But this team is playing like trash right now, and Pierce is a significant reason why. This team has a long way to go before being respectable - and we all knew that going in. But they should look better than they do now, and that's plain to see.

The Hawks will get better in future years because they will have more talent. Hopefully Trae Young takes a significant jump next year and improves on his cratered efficiency, Collins is rapidly turning into a star, and hopefully at least one of Huerter/Spellman/future draft picks will ascend to near-stardom. If so, you are cooking with some grease. But to get out of the rebuild and turn toward respectability and maximize our potential, we will need a coach who can bring the best out of our team. Hopefully Pierce is the guy to do it, but early signs aren't particularly promising even considering the hand dealt to him so far.

So don't come at me about a surprises-no-one loss to the playoffs-bound Celtics on the road - Pierce needs to improve his own coaching if he is going to survive long enough to get us out of this rebuild in the shortest time possible.

Team chemistry doesn't come easily, especially with a bunch of new faces (many of them rookies) who have never played together. It's even harder when you have players in and out of the rotation for a variety of reasons, mostly injury. I'm not even sure John Collins has played 10 games this season, yet you're already complaining Coach Pierce doesn't run plays for him.

I stand by what I said earlier, this is silly. You were setting your expectations way too high if you thought it was gonna look even remotely good this early. The season isn't even halfway done. Anyway, this team competes. The execution may be bad but it's not for lack of effort. At this point, all I'm looking for is progress. Yeah, a few wins here and there would be nice, especially for team morale, but I like seeing guys like Huerter starting to come into their own despite the outcome of the games.

blkbigdog35 and Eazy123 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JerseyNo12 said:

Dude, didn't you learn anything from last season? It should have given you the hint that it doesn't matter how good a coach you are--if you don't have the talent that can execute night in and night out it's gonna look ugly more often than not. The Bucks are suddenly a legit title contender with Coach Budenholzer. The Spurs look like they might miss the playoffs. Talent matters, and right now the Hawks are short on it.

Lol, you're concluding that from one game that was on the road against one of the favorites to win the Eastern Conference? Come on guys, this is silly.

talent to execute man help D? Are you kidding. I must have watched a different, lack of effort, defensive elementary execution, and shot selection is not a talent issue pal its coaching and the guys have checked out already

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JerseyNo12 said:

Team chemistry doesn't come easily, especially with a bunch of new faces (many of them rookies) who have never played together. It's even harder when you have players in and out of the rotation for a variety of reasons, mostly injury. I'm not even sure John Collins has played 10 games this season, yet you're already complaining Coach Pierce doesn't run plays for him.

I stand by what I said earlier, this is silly. You were setting your expectations way too high if you thought it was gonna look even remotely good this early. The season isn't even halfway done. Anyway, this team competes. The execution may be bad but it's not for lack of effort. At this point, all I'm looking for is progress. Yeah, a few wins here and there would be nice, especially for team morale, but I like seeing guys like Huerter starting to come into their own despite the outcome of the games.

Feel free to stand by what you said, I'd expect you to - but what you are surmising about me is off base. My expectations were always that this team would be bad for the short term (next couple of years or so) while we grew and attained more talent. However, our bad performance doesnt excuse some poor (and questionable at best) decisions by Coach. You are absolving him of all wrongdoing and blaming it on "Your expectations were too high" and other factors - skirting the fact that he himself has direct control over several key aspects of the team's performance - which is dangerous and what keeps franchises held down with bad coaching.

I like how Collins is playing and how Heurter is now shooting more and doing so more confidently (after seemingly being scared to do so early in the season). Make no mistake, our rebuild will not be successful without good coaching - and Pierce is going to have to show that he has the chops to be not just a head coach, but a head coach that can guide and develop a very young team for the foreseeable future that will need adequate coaching that much more. That's not easy for any coach - especially one who has never been head coach anywhere before - NBA or otherwise. Many coaches don't show the requisite skillset for it but will thrive with other types of teams (like superstar-led or vet-laden teams). We need a coach who will not be shy about confronting the team about the fundamentals and rein in constant bad shot selection from players. Who will do the hard labor of coaching, and maximize each player's talents while minimizing weaknesses. Will Pierce be that guy eventually? No one knows yet.

Jersey, we want the same thing - a winning team eventually. We both know that won't happen for some time. We just see the job Pierce is doing so far differently. You call my viewpoint silly, I call yours dangerous - it's all good. Let's hope together that Pierce is The Man. And if he is, we both will be happy I am certain of it. After all, we share the same love for our Hawks, and it's fine to disagree.

Edited by ATL Fan in the DMV
JerseyNo11 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pierce is a rookie Head Coach, that's all I got. The same patience that's required of the young guys is needed for the coach.  

One thing coach can't do is control the actual turnovers once the ball is in play. 9 turnovers in the 1st quarter last game leading to 21 points - that's part of the reason teams get up big on us.

blkbigdog35 and Eazy123 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ATL Fan in the DMV said:

Feel free to stand by what you said, I'd expect you to - but what you are surmising about me is off base. My expectations were always that this team would be bad for the short term (next couple of years or so) while we grew and attained more talent. However, our bad performance doesnt excuse some poor (and questionable at best) decisions by Coach. You are absolving him of all wrongdoing and blaming it on "Your expectations were too high" and other factors - skirting the fact that he himself has direct control over several key aspects of the team's performance - which is dangerous and what keeps franchises held down with bad coaching.

I like how Collins is playing and how Heurter is now shooting more and doing so more confidently (after seemingly being scared to do so early in the season). Make no mistake, our rebuild will not be successful without good coaching - and Pierce is going to have to show that he has the chops to be not just a head coach, but a head coach that can guide and develop a very young team for the foreseeable future that will need adequate coaching that much more. That's not easy for any coach - especially one who has never been head coach anywhere before - NBA or otherwise. Many coaches don't show the requisite skillset for it but will thrive with other types of teams (like superstar-led or vet-laden teams). We need a coach who will not be shy about confronting the team about the fundamentals and rein in constant bad shot selection from players. Who will do the hard labor of coaching, and maximize each player's talents while minimizing weaknesses. Will Pierce be that guy eventually? No one knows yet.

Jersey, we want the same thing - a winning team eventually. We both know that won't happen for some time. We just see the job Pierce is doing so far differently. You call my viewpoint silly, I call yours dangerous - it's all good. Let's hope together that Pierce is The Man. And if he is, we both will be happy I am certain of it. After all, we share the same love for our Hawks, and it's fine to disagree.

I'm basing this off the practice videos I've seen and some of the mic'ed up stuff, but Coach Pierce strikes me as the kind of coach you just described. He does harp on fundamentals. I've seen him get on Trae Young and other guys almost immediately after they messed up. I've seen Coach Pierce bench his star rookie for extended periods of time when he wasn't playing well and his head was out of sorts. I think that's why he doesn't call plays for certain players yet, because he wants to make sure the team can play fundamentally sound basketball consistently first before installing plays. As for Trae's shot selection, I wouldn't necessarily tell him to stop shooting those long range shots (really his biggest issue is shooting the open 3s and missing inside the paint). We know he can make those shots, so why kill his confidence? He's a rookie, still adjusting to the NBA and its grueling schedule that I'm sure is tough on his body.

I'm not absolving him. Like I said, it's a work in progress, and it will take time before the players can consistently execute exactly how the coach draws it up and teaches it in practice. That's why I'm not quick to draw conclusions that Coach Pierce isn't the right guy when we haven't even completed the first half of the first season.

But yeah man, no worries. Agree to disagree. My viewpoint is simply let's wait and let these guys finish the season before drawing conclusions.

jayu70 and ATL Fan in the DMV like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

I'm basing this off the practice videos I've seen and some of the mic'ed up stuff, but Coach Pierce strikes me as the kind of coach you just described. He does harp on fundamentals. I've seen him get on Trae Young and other guys almost immediately after they messed up. I've seen Coach Pierce bench his star rookie for extended periods of time when he wasn't playing well and his head was out of sorts. I think that's why he doesn't call plays for certain players yet, because he wants to make sure the team can play fundamentally sound basketball consistently first before installing plays. As for Trae's shot selection, I wouldn't necessarily tell him to stop shooting those long range shots (really his biggest issue is shooting the open 3s and missing inside the paint). We know he can make those shots, so why kill his confidence? He's a rookie, still adjusting to the NBA and its grueling schedule that I'm sure is tough on his body.

I'm not absolving him. Like I said, it's a work in progress, and it will take time before the players can consistently execute exactly how the coach draws it up and teaches it in practice. That's why I'm not quick to draw conclusions that Coach Pierce isn't the right guy when we haven't even completed the first half of the first season.

But yeah man, no worries. Agree to disagree. My viewpoint is simply let's wait and let these guys finish the season before drawing conclusions.

I like where we are going with this - seems to be constructive. 

I do like how Pierce has benched Trae at times - that has been quite apparent, and he has yanked starters (or whole starting units) at times, too. And yes, even though he is missing shots that you WANT him to take (like shots at the rim), I am concerned with Trae's continued poor at times shot selection despite the benchings, but that's probably a discussion better served in the Trae Young topic.

With Pierce having done some good things, what do you [all] feel he could do better right now to add more value to the team from a coaching standpoint that could pay dividends with performance?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, blkbigdog35 said:

Understand your disdain OP but he’s a rookie coach with an extremely young roster! It’s going to take time.

All good 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0