ike barn87987

Ed Oliver or Jeffery Simmons

46 posts in this topic

50 minutes ago, osiruz said:

I wouldn't touch simmons with a 10 foot pole.

Why? I mean it. If you say because of the high school incident, most here will laugh it off...that's been more than answered. Dig a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Why? I mean it. If you say because of the high school incident, most here will laugh it off...that's been more than answered. Dig a bit.

It is, doesn't matter if it's answered it's going to be a question mark and a gloom cloud hanging over the team. Dude pummeled a woman and stood over her like he's Mohammed Ali.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/17/2019 at 4:14 AM, MSalmon said:

His lack of sacks bother me when you couple that with limited technique. He reminds me more of Jordan Hill in college than Aaron Donald. Donald had pass rush moves coming into the nfl

They don’t bother me to be fair as long as he does a job with Jarrett Takk and maybe Beasley and Crawford chipping in I think he’ll be fine for us.

Question I ask myself if another player in a position of need is there like a Jonah Williams can you find a guy not as talented as Oliver or Simmons but someone else who can be picked up later to do a certain job and if so are you confident enough with the guys you have left to get to the passer on a consistent basis.

Some of these mid round DTs I have to say I’m liking more and more by the day Saunders Mack and Gaines wow I think these guys can be good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

They don’t bother me to be fair as long as he does a job with Jarrett Takk and maybe Beasley and Crawford chipping in I think he’ll be fine for us.

Question I ask myself if another player in a position of need is there like a Jonah Williams can you find a guy not as talented as Oliver or Simmons but someone else who can be picked up later to do a certain job and if so are you confident enough with the guys you have left to get to the passer on a consistent basis.

Some of these mid round DTs I have to say I’m liking more and more by the day Saunders Mack and Gaines wow I think these guys can be good.

I sorta agree, but you're talking a really light front in a traditional 4 down man set which we tend to run. I see your point of using Crawford as a Jumbo DE, but the reality he is much more effective inside or as a member of an unbalanced 3 big down linemen set (as a DE). With our speed rushers in Takk, Beasley and Irvin who are all players that we want to attack with it makes more sense to go with a bigger and more stout interior guy. I watch Oliver and I see a guy who may get engulfed a lot more against bigger and more athletic OL. Don't get me wrong, I think he can penetrate, but I don't see a Donald. Maybe it's because  most of his tape is against AAC OL that won't be near even NFL practice squads. That's a huge gamble on an undersized guy that didn't put up huge sack numbers against inferior teams. Donald was less a risk at his position in the draft as he had demonstrated and statistically incredible numbers against top flight competition in the ACC. He, arguably, should have been the number one overall pick and even he dropped a bit to the Rams, who had Brockers btw. 

In our case, I see Oliver as luxury pick if we had say a Poe on roster. Is Senat that guy? 

But like you I look at this draft and I see plenty of mid round DTs that check the blocks in size, expected production and sufficient athleticism for our scheme. I'm high on Mack myself. I also like Demarcus Christian. We need gap cloggers to reduce double teams on Grady and free our pass rushers. Big Country strong Dudes with violence and physicality. Mack certainly fits the bill.

And then the depth of the draft is significant in the DT area. So at #14 we have a splendid chance of adding a low cost and high ceiling pass rusher like Sweat, Polite or even Ferguson. Maybe go OT or OG if we like Williams, Ward or even our boy Cody Ford. Both edge and OL drop off quite a bit after the first round in terms of talent and pro readiness. 

I'd go Edge at #14. Its an anomaly for us to pick so high due to injuries. Add a stud edge and this allows us flexibility both to add existing depth and talent to our pass rushing arsenal. It allows us to keep Vic if we want to sign him reasonably, or even desire to tag him. It allows us flexibility if Takk's mental issues are significant. But more importantly IMO it allows us to upgrade a Brooks Reed and Means if we re-sign Irvin and extend or tag Vic and Takk is gtg. Now you'd have in your pass rush arsenal Takk, Vic, Irvin and a Sweat/Polite or Ferguson. That keeps everybody fresh and fast. 

I also don't want to discount the value of Senat. He flashed ability. So with Grady, Crawford, Senat and say a Mack or Christmas that's a pretty stout and flexible interior. 

A surprise pick but one that could make sense at #14 could also be a LB like Devin White. Campbell is ok. Foye is great depth and a rotational piece but having fast LBs--and White can blitz very well--behind a stout interior and fast edge guys could be lethal.

Just so many better options than expending the first pick on any DT that we don't view as a game changing Aaron Donald type. And let's not forget that we nabbed Grady in the fifth. DQ knows his DL. But his best DLs worked with the Poe or better yet Mebane type of DTs in the rotation. Mebane wasnt a high pick and we got Poe on a short term deal. 

Also in my perfect scenario, the Bucs cut McCoy and he follows Dirk to us. That keeps us from counting on a second year DT(Senat) and a rookie DT as our interior guys. 

kiwifalcon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Front 4 against the run if we drafted Oliver.

I’d also bring Shelby back for cheap and maybe draft a Daylon Mack in the 3rd-4th round.

Then if I wanted size against the run Shelby at LDE Jarrett at 3T Senat on the Nose and Takk as the RDE.

Rotating Oliver Mack Beasley Irvin Means and Crawford.

Pretty solid 10 man rotation.

Obviously there are some question marks.

1.Whats happening with Beasley.

2. If a guy like Means can step in and do Shelby’s job.

3.Ive fortified the defensive interior with Oliver and Mack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, osiruz said:

It is, doesn't matter if it's answered it's going to be a question mark and a gloom cloud hanging over the team. Dude pummeled a woman and stood over her like he's Mohammed Ali.

For sure, I don't even consider Simmons an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

Front 4 against the run if we drafted Oliver.

I’d also bring Shelby back for cheap and maybe draft a Daylon Mack in the 3rd-4th round.

Then if I wanted size against the run Shelby at LDE Jarrett at 3T Senat on the Nose and Takk as the RDE.

Rotating Oliver Mack Beasley Irvin Means and Crawford.

Pretty solid 10 man rotation.

Obviously there are some question marks.

1.Whats happening with Beasley.

2. If a guy like Means can step in and do Shelby’s job.

3.Ive fortified the defensive interior with Oliver and Mack.

So Senat basically gets no snaps? If we’re drafting Oliver and Mack, there’s not a ton of snaps l don’t forget Crawford is usually interior as well. So basically, throw away the third rounder we picked last year.

Means is a stretch. After you write it all down, I’d rather add an edge with size far more than an early DT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MSalmon said:

So Senat basically gets no snaps? If we’re drafting Oliver and Mack, there’s not a ton of snaps l don’t forget Crawford is usually interior as well. So basically, throw away the third rounder we picked last year.

Means is a stretch. After you write it all down, I’d rather add an edge with size far more than an early DT

That’s the decision.I’ve mentioned in many a thread the key to the Falcons going DT early is how they view Senat.If he can continue to grow his role will expand if not first things first run defense will be his role.

Then we can comeback with a combination of guys to rush the passer.

Personally I still believe there looking OT early.I think there pretty much locked in on it and with the dline class being so deep it wouldn’t surprise me to see DT taken later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

That’s the decision.I’ve mentioned in many a thread the key to the Falcons going DT early is how they view Senat.If he can continue to grow his role will expand if not first things first run defense will be his role.

Then we can comeback with a combination of guys to rush the passer.

Personally I still believe there looking OT early.I think there pretty much locked in on it and with the dline class being so deep it wouldn’t surprise me to see DT taken later.

Makes sense and we’re not far off in our thought process, although my gut tells me edge rusher is first pick unless they’re blown away by an OL prospect 

kiwifalcon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/26/2019 at 8:14 AM, MSalmon said:

I sorta agree, but you're talking a really light front in a traditional 4 down man set which we tend to run. I see your point of using Crawford as a Jumbo DE, but the reality he is much more effective inside or as a member of an unbalanced 3 big down linemen set (as a DE). With our speed rushers in Takk, Beasley and Irvin who are all players that we want to attack with it makes more sense to go with a bigger and more stout interior guy. I watch Oliver and I see a guy who may get engulfed a lot more against bigger and more athletic OL. Don't get me wrong, I think he can penetrate, but I don't see a Donald. Maybe it's because  most of his tape is against AAC OL that won't be near even NFL practice squads. That's a huge gamble on an undersized guy that didn't put up huge sack numbers against inferior teams. Donald was less a risk at his position in the draft as he had demonstrated and statistically incredible numbers against top flight competition in the ACC. He, arguably, should have been the number one overall pick and even he dropped a bit to the Rams, who had Brockers btw. 

In our case, I see Oliver as luxury pick if we had say a Poe on roster. Is Senat that guy? 

But like you I look at this draft and I see plenty of mid round DTs that check the blocks in size, expected production and sufficient athleticism for our scheme. I'm high on Mack myself. I also like Demarcus Christian. We need gap cloggers to reduce double teams on Grady and free our pass rushers. Big Country strong Dudes with violence and physicality. Mack certainly fits the bill.

And then the depth of the draft is significant in the DT area. So at #14 we have a splendid chance of adding a low cost and high ceiling pass rusher like Sweat, Polite or even Ferguson. Maybe go OT or OG if we like Williams, Ward or even our boy Cody Ford. Both edge and OL drop off quite a bit after the first round in terms of talent and pro readiness. 

I'd go Edge at #14. Its an anomaly for us to pick so high due to injuries. Add a stud edge and this allows us flexibility both to add existing depth and talent to our pass rushing arsenal. It allows us to keep Vic if we want to sign him reasonably, or even desire to tag him. It allows us flexibility if Takk's mental issues are significant. But more importantly IMO it allows us to upgrade a Brooks Reed and Means if we re-sign Irvin and extend or tag Vic and Takk is gtg. Now you'd have in your pass rush arsenal Takk, Vic, Irvin and a Sweat/Polite or Ferguson. That keeps everybody fresh and fast. 

I also don't want to discount the value of Senat. He flashed ability. So with Grady, Crawford, Senat and say a Mack or Christmas that's a pretty stout and flexible interior. 

A surprise pick but one that could make sense at #14 could also be a LB like Devin White. Campbell is ok. Foye is great depth and a rotational piece but having fast LBs--and White can blitz very well--behind a stout interior and fast edge guys could be lethal.

Just so many better options than expending the first pick on any DT that we don't view as a game changing Aaron Donald type. And let's not forget that we nabbed Grady in the fifth. DQ knows his DL. But his best DLs worked with the Poe or better yet Mebane type of DTs in the rotation. Mebane wasnt a high pick and we got Poe on a short term deal. 

Also in my perfect scenario, the Bucs cut McCoy and he follows Dirk to us. That keeps us from counting on a second year DT(Senat) and a rookie DT as our interior guys. 

Make perfect sense... I think it will be DE in the first unless someone drops like Greedy Williams or they fall in love with a OL prospect... but pretty sure the will take care of OL in FA and draft someone like Sweet in the first.. im with you..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Fernando C. said:

Make perfect sense... I think it will be DE in the first unless someone drops like Greedy Williams or they fall in love with a OL prospect... but pretty sure the will take care of OL in FA and draft someone like Sweet in the first.. im with you..

You’re right, it could be cb too. It just makes a lot of sense to go edge unless a stud cb is there

Fernando C. likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MSalmon said:

You’re right, it could be cb too. It just makes a lot of sense to go edge unless a stud cb is there

If they let Beasley go and test the market I’m with you if not I’d tie DE up in FA with a proven guy against the run and let Irvin and Takk rush the passer outside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

If they let Beasley go and test the market I’m with you if not I’d tie DE up in FA with a proven guy against the run and let Irvin and Takk rush the passer outside.

Fair point and it’ll be interesting to see. Now I could definitely see them taking say an Andre Dillard or maybe Jonah Williams to plug in at RT if they think Schraeder is done.. I think Ryan has a $7.5m cap hit and he didn’t look good.if they did that I bet we go FA G. Maybe n Ali Marpet and could realistically see Gerald McCoy signed.

lots of options for us

kiwifalcon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be happy with either of them, assuming I was satisfied with the interview answers and body language. People do wrong. It is part of being human. How we respond when we are wrong, and are confronted about it shows our character. both have questions marks, both have things to answer for, but, both may not be there when we draft also.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

*I know this is only highlights and shouldnt be confused with actual game tape (doesn't mean it isn't fun to watch).

I'm still with Simmons or either Taylor at OL as our first pick. I just can't go all in with Oliver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now