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Ed Oliver or Jeffery Simmons


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3 hours ago, Cole World said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

This is why I've never got the narrative that we need a massive space eater type DT. Oliver is 280lbs and one of, if not the best run stopper in college.

His strength, power and athleticism allow him to overpower most college linemen.

If you watch his tape you can see this strength at the POA.Sometimes a lot of the time he doesn’t disengage but if he decides to go a certain way he takes the OT or G with him still engaged.

You wouldn’t play Oliver on the nose against the run but as a pocket mover rushing the passer he’ll yes and just let him loose.

I think if this guy had Quinnen Williams hand usage and technique he’d be the best player in the draft.

Thats my only worry about Oliver is he’s a one trick pony he needs to add that hand usage or he’ll get neutralised at the next level as everyone is strong there.

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Honestly I’ll take either of them if they are there. They are both strong at the POA and don’t get pushed around easily. Despite Oliver’s size, I don’t think he’s a liability on the interior at all. He plays stronger than Wilkins who has at least 35 pounds on him. 

Oliver is a straight freak. Insane first step and gap penetration ability, but has the strength and anchoring ability of someone who plays at 320 lbs. 

I really like both so I’m hoping one will be there. Don’t think you can go wrong with either. 

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On 1/14/2019 at 0:51 PM, kiwifalcon said:

 

If you watch his tape you can see this strength at the POA.Sometimes a lot of the time he doesn’t disengage but if he decides to go a certain way he takes the OT or G with him still engaged.

You wouldn’t play Oliver on the nose against the run but as a pocket mover rushing the passer he’ll yes and just let him loose.

I think if this guy had Quinnen Williams hand usage and technique he’d be the best player in the draft.

Thats my only worry about Oliver is he’s a one trick pony he needs to add that hand usage or he’ll get neutralised at the next level as everyone is strong there.

His lack of sacks bother me when you couple that with limited technique. He reminds me more of Jordan Hill in college than Aaron Donald. Donald had pass rush moves coming into the nfl

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1 hour ago, MSalmon said:

His lack of sacks bother me when you couple that with limited technique. He reminds me more of Jordan Hill in college than Aaron Donald. Donald had pass rush moves coming into the nfl

To be fair, Hill was one of my favorite guys coming out and if not for injuries detailing his career, I think he's an easy perennial Pro Bowler. Had a 6 game stretch with 5.5 sacks as a DT. Oliver isn't that much like him imho, but I do get the uncertainty. More concerned with length/hand use than anything like sack numbers.

Simmons is still my favorite dude. He's going to be a star.

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Just now, Francis York Morgan said:

To be fair, Hill was one of my favorite guys coming out and if not for injuries detailing his career, I think he's an easy perennial Pro Bowler. Had a 6 game stretch with 5.5 sacks as a DT. Oliver isn't that much like him imho, but I do get the uncertainty.

I think Oliver is stronger than Hill is. I used him as a comp simply because Hill--who I liked coming out of college too--even when healthy had very few pass rush moves and his speed and athleticism alone weren't as potent a weapons as they were in college. Hill also faced big time collegiate opponents at Penn State.

Oliver in his situation at Houston had some seriously great tape, until you noticed how unrefined and how limited his pass rush moves. He's fast as h e l l but he also runs past the QB a lot. Im not sure you want that type of risk at the #14 pick. Going back old school comp, watch some vids of Warren Sapp in college. He was an effective pass rusher with multiple moves back then as well.

That said if I'm wrong, and we get him and he does well--ill certainly be glad to eat crow. 

Plus DTs in general at top of the draft are such crap shots. Remember Glenn Dorsey and others? For every Donald it seems like the majority of first round DTs never really emerge. 

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2 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I think Oliver is stronger than Hill is. I used him as a comp simply because Hill--who I liked coming out of college too--even when healthy had very few pass rush moves and his speed and athleticism alone weren't as potent a weapons as they were in college. Hill also faced big time collegiate opponents at Penn State.

Oliver in his situation at Houston had some seriously great tape, until you noticed how unrefined and how limited his pass rush moves. He's fast as h e l l but he also runs past the QB a lot. Im not sure you want that type of risk at the #14 pick. Going back old school comp, watch some vids of Warren Sapp in college. He was an effective pass rusher with multiple moves back then as well.

That said if I'm wrong, and we get him and he does well--ill certainly be glad to eat crow. 

Plus DTs in general at top of the draft are such crap shots. Remember Glenn Dorsey and others? For every Donald it seems like the majority of first round DTs never really emerge. 

I agree with a lot of this, minus the crap shoot part. Actually think it's more consistently good than most other positions...just look at all DTs drafted in the top 20 or so in the last 10 years. That's where most Pro Bowlers come from.

We'll see. I'm not banking on Oliver like some, and I do think he's unrefined, but I won't be upset if we get him.

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4 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

I agree with a lot of this, minus the crap shoot part. Actually think it's more consistently good than most other positions...just look at all DTs drafted in the top 20 or so in the last 10 years. That's where most Pro Bowlers come from.

We'll see. I'm not banking on Oliver like some, and I do think he's unrefined, but I won't be upset if we get him.

I'll agree with this. Maybe an Oliver under DQ flourishes. But most of those successful DTs like Williams, Payne and others have been in that more traditional 295-300 pounds or more guys. Donald is the closest weight wise (and Hill) to Oliver. I just don't see the Donald type of ability in Oliver. Maybe babe coming out of college at 280 is a better comp. Of course he ended up being a 300 pounder lol

I'm thinking that we go either Edge or OL. Edge may become a priority depending on how we feel about retaining Vic and if we see Takk as ready.

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4 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I'll agree with this. Maybe an Oliver under DQ flourishes. But most of those successful DTs like Williams, Payne and others have been in that more traditional 295-300 pounds or more guys. Donald is the closest weight wise (and Hill) to Oliver. I just don't see the Donald type of ability in Oliver. Maybe babe coming out of college at 280 is a better comp. Of course he ended up being a 300 pounder lol

I'm thinking that we go either Edge or OL. Edge may become a priority depending on how we feel about retaining Vic and if we see Takk as ready.

Reminds me more of John Randle in playstyle. I kinda hate the Donald comp haha. But I do get it.

Edge wouldn't be bad, depending who's available. Seen some people digging Sweat in the 1st, but...ehhhhh. Not feeling it. But Polite, Allen, and Burns are all super interesting prospects.

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2 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Reminds me more of John Randle in playstyle. I kinda hate the Donald comp haha. But I do get it.

Edge wouldn't be bad, depending who's available. Seen some people digging Sweat in the 1st, but...ehhhhh. Not feeling it. But Polite, Allen, and Burns are all super interesting prospects.

I like all you listed as well. I’d move up for Allen

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23 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I'll agree with this. Maybe an Oliver under DQ flourishes. But most of those successful DTs like Williams, Payne and others have been in that more traditional 295-300 pounds or more guys. Donald is the closest weight wise (and Hill) to Oliver. I just don't see the Donald type of ability in Oliver. Maybe babe coming out of college at 280 is a better comp. Of course he ended up being a 300 pounder lol

I'm thinking that we go either Edge or OL. Edge may become a priority depending on how we feel about retaining Vic and if we see Takk as ready.

Oliver needs to go and spend the draft preparation and off season with Chuck Smith he’ll refine him and give him that stufff to succeed at the next level.

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2 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Oliver needs to go and spend the draft preparation and off season with Chuck Smith he’ll refine him and give him that stufff to succeed at the next level.

He needs more than an off-season lol

but I get your point. But I’m all seriousness unless he makes dramatic changes by combine I hope we don’t draft him

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36 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Reminds me more of John Randle in playstyle. I kinda hate the Donald comp haha. But I do get it.

Edge wouldn't be bad, depending who's available. Seen some people digging Sweat in the 1st, but...ehhhhh. Not feeling it. But Polite, Allen, and Burns are all super interesting prospects.

Could well be the spot to draft a good edge player.If Takks having issues and they don’t believe Beasley’s it DE could well be the spot to draft early.

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