gazoo

There is still much hope looking forward, here is the fix (revisited)

110 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Vandy said:

The mystery is that’s the D we saw last 1/3 of 2016 and throughout our playoff run. And then it just disappeared...

What happened to THAT Dan Quinn? 

Defense was playing aggressive. The Offense built big leads and could score every possession. Even in the playoffs, the Falcons drove 99 yards down the field to score TD and SEA couldn’t hang on. 

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2 hours ago, gazoo said:

BOOM!

The early onset of dementia demonstrates around here at times. Most of the same players on offense that catapulted our offense to scoring the 7th most points in NFL history just 2 years ago are still here, yet some suggest it’s foolish to think we could be a good offense next year. 

We have a lot of very good pieces on defense but desperately need a stud DT to play next to Grady. It will transform the entire DL and defense to have two stud, disruptive DTs playing with Tak on edge. It would even help boost Beasley’s sacks if he sticks around. We have a good secondary, we just need a big playmaker at DT and better rotating DL. The loss of Poe and Clayborn was far bigger than realized, but we have ammo this offseason to remediate. 

You know what's Gazoo this only confirms to me about what alot of this fanbase is like.KoG mentioned this in a thread last week about mentalities round here.A lot of our fans always look for the worst and come out of the wood work when the team is down but disappear or bandwagon it when the team goes well.

The whole idea our franchise can't turn it around in a year is just another misnomer that will probably be proven wrong and the people yelling from the ceilings with pleasure right now will disappear Mark it down.

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28 minutes ago, Vandy said:

The mystery is that’s the D we saw last 1/3 of 2016 and throughout our playoff run. And then it just disappeared...

What happened to THAT Dan Quinn? 

That would be nice but still, I don't like us sitting back on defense trying to protect a lead. I want to remain aggressive and take it too the opposing offenses.

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4 minutes ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

That would be nice but still, I don't like us sitting back on defense trying to protect a lead. I want to remain aggressive and take it too the opposing offenses.

I never understood this mentality even when we were winning games.

I wish we would just keep going after teams even when the defense was playing well upwards of last year.Alas we always sat back.

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1 minute ago, kiwifalcon said:

I never understood this mentality even when we were winning games.

I wish we would just keep going after teams even when the defense was playing well upwards of last year.Alas we always sat back.

Exactly, we were playing well on defense, then with huge leads we got soft and fell apart. Teams would score really fast on us...it really pizzed me off 

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49 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I appreciate Rico as much or more than anyone on this board, but Kazee looks like that ball-hawking FS this team has been missing to me. 

If you count the number of times he runs himself out of position, it is significant. That will improve with time, but for now both the pluses and minuses have equal impact. I am a true believer long term.

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

The mystery is that’s the D we saw last 1/3 of 2016 and throughout our playoff run. And then it just disappeared...

What happened to THAT Dan Quinn? 

I swear, a dominant DT to line up next to Grady and the entire defense automatically gets better. Tak and Beasley suddenly become way more effective coming off the edges, we suddenly become far more effective against the run, we can get our defense off the field quicker keeping them all fresh.

The disruptive 4 starting DL now have more control of game. When you have a hole in middle the other 3 starters all suffer. Senat played well at times, but he also got tossed around at times, especially when the other team needed to make a play. He will be a good rotating DT but not sure if he’s starter material.

Dieon Jones is one of the best young MLBs in the NFL. We really missed him this year. Neal is far better than our fans realize, he’s not just a good player efficient at covering TEs, he’s a vocal leader and an enforcer. Campbell is better than average, but his versatility is what helps us most in coverage and blitzing ability.  

You get a better DL in front of these guys, start affecting the QB and plugging up running lanes and I think defense makes a huge leap. Ball hawk Kazee gets more shot at picks.

We also need to cut the bad rotating players as well. We really missed what  Clayborn Brought to this defense, add that to hole Poe’s loss  created and the injuries to our playcallers on defense and it all collapsed. 

For a team needed defensive line help, we are in outstanding shape in this draft picking at top of each round and having 4th and 5th round compensatory picks. We can draft a stud immediate starting DT with our first pick, on OG in second, we can grab a pass rusher at top of 3rd  round, and still have several picks to grab another OG, a RB, LB, CB etc. 

 

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1 hour ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

Oh, and when we have big leads, no more playing soft prevent defense (see SB and a multitude of other games) but take the way the Steelers and Ravens played us with leads.  They didn't sit back and let us score, they sent the kitchen sink and wreaked havoc on our OL and gave us no chance to get back in the games.  That's the type of defense I want. 

Exactly the opposite of our defense. When the other team needs to score, we send 3 and run backwards with 8. lol. Why do we always have to get the bend-then-collapse defensive HC's? I'm so sick and tired of watching our defenses run away and hide instead of attack and fight.

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4 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Exactly the opposite of our defense. When the other team needs to score, we send 3 and run backwards with 8. lol. Why do we always have to get the bend-then-collapse defensive HC's? I'm so sick and tired of watching our defenses run away and hide instead of attack and fight.

Yep, talk about checking your blood pressure?

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21 hours ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Care to elaborate why this team is 4-9? I think even with your “perfect” off-season, there will be learning curves under new coordinators, no guarantee guys come back to the same level pre injury, and Dan Quinn will still get in the way at some point...

Plus, is our talent up to the level of LAR, DAL, PHI, MIN, GB, NO, CAR, CHI, SEA? Bc those are the teams we have to beat in the NFC...

Our defensive talent is nowhere near half those teams...and offensively, we are inferior to several...

Some combination of bad luck and unforced errors compounded by guys being overcome with frustration. 

As for your evaluation of the relative talent level of this roster compared to those rosters, I think you're way way off base. 

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53 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Exactly the opposite of our defense. When the other team needs to score, we send 3 and run backwards with 8. lol. Why do we always have to get the bend-then-collapse defensive HC's? I'm so sick and tired of watching our defenses run away and hide instead of attack and fight.

That's not necessarily a stylistic thing so much as a talent thing. Our problem is that we dont have a reliable pass rush to take advantage of those "in the lead" situations. Sometimes we rush 3 and play 8 back...but so does everybody else. We DO blitz less, for sure. But let me tell ya....if we were a blitz happy team, I assure you there would be enough instances of us getting roasted on an "unnecessary blitz" that we'd be saying the exact opposite thing.....we'd be begging for our coaches to do the safe thing and force the team down two scores to drive the field 5 yards at a time. 

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1 hour ago, gazoo said:

I swear, a dominant DT to line up next to Grady and the entire defense automatically gets better. Tak and Beasley suddenly become way more effective coming off the edges, we suddenly become far more effective against the run, we can get our defense off the field quicker keeping them all fresh.

The disruptive 4 starting DL now have more control of game. When you have a hole in middle the other 3 starters all suffer. Senat played well at times, but he also got tossed around at times, especially when the other team needed to make a play. He will be a good rotating DT but not sure if he’s starter material.

Dieon Jones is one of the best young MLBs in the NFL. We really missed him this year. Neal is far better than our fans realize, he’s not just a good player efficient at covering TEs, he’s a vocal leader and an enforcer. Campbell is better than average, but his versatility is what helps us most in coverage and blitzing ability.  

You get a better DL in front of these guys, start affecting the QB and plugging up running lanes and I think defense makes a huge leap. Ball hawk Kazee gets more shot at picks.

We also need to cut the bad rotating players as well. We really missed what  Clayborn Brought to this defense, add that to hole Poe’s loss  created and the injuries to our playcallers on defense and it all collapsed. 

For a team needed defensive line help, we are in outstanding shape in this draft picking at top of each round and having 4th and 5th round compensatory picks. We can draft a stud immediate starting DT with our first pick, on OG in second, we can grab a pass rusher at top of 3rd  round, and still have several picks to grab another OG, a RB, LB, CB etc. 

 

I agree with the idea but I think you're overselling the capability of any DT to come in an dominate immediately. 

I think it's gonna have to be heavy investment in both FA and the draft. And a rethinking of our defensive philosophy. 

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15 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

Your own 2007 Atlanta Falcons.

Lol you joker the talents there it's just hasn't been deployed properly and has a lot of that mentioned talent been out for extended periods.

Im still pissing myself laughing about the one year turnaround thing when the Falcons did it in 08 no QB new coaches staff and talent added lol.

It can't be done though right Hahahahaha it happend with the Falcons lol.Nevermind looking round the league it happend in the backyard of the team you supposedly support...:bang:

You guys are so loose with your research when putting up these turnaround teams.  The 2007 Falcons had Leftwich and Harrington attempting to replace Michael Vick, not to mention Petrino as their head coach.  In 2008, the Falcons did have a new QB by the name of Matt Ryan (heard of him?) and a new coach, Mike Smith and went to the playoffs.

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2 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

I never understood this mentality even when we were winning games.

I wish we would just keep going after teams even when the defense was playing well upwards of last year.Alas we always sat back.

It's called bend but don't break. Quinn, Smitty, Mora and the Swamp Fox swore by it.

That's twenty years of Falcon Football folks.

I hate the BBDB.

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3 hours ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

That would be nice but still, I don't like us sitting back on defense trying to protect a lead. I want to remain aggressive and take it too the opposing offenses.

Like I said, we didn’t during that period. It’s mind-boggling how we’ve gotten away from that aggressiveness of 2 years ago.

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1 hour ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Some combination of bad luck and unforced errors compounded by guys being overcome with frustration. 

As for your evaluation of the relative talent level of this roster compared to those rosters, I think you're way way off base. 

Seriously?

Defenses that are better: CHI, PHI, DAL, LAR, SEA, MIN, CAR

Offenses that are better: LAR, MIN, GB, NO, DAL, PHI

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7 minutes ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Seriously?

Defenses that are better: CHI, PHI, DAL, LAR, SEA, MIN, CAR

Offenses that are better: LAR, MIN, GB, NO, DAL, PHI

I think a lot of this is debatable, tbh. 

I mean, obviously our defense isnt anywhere near the Bears. And we've had a really really bad season. But from a talent perspective, I dont think we're out of the league of most of these teams on either side of the ball. Assuming full health, our offensive 11 are just as talented (if not more) as Minnesota, GB, NO, Dal and Philly. Our defense has talent that is certainly comparable to Seattle, Carolina, Philly and probably Dallas. 

I think a lot of those teams have larger holes than you may think. Even in our nightmare season on offense, we're 10th in DVOA.....ahead of Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Dallas, and right behind GB. 

Defensively obviously our performance this year isnt comparable to any of these other teams. But Carolina's defense is pretty closer to ours in terms of level of play and so is Philly. Dallas has had a great year defensively and maybe thats the new normal but usually teams that make massive defensive jumps in one year regress hard the following year. The Rams defense is fine but how much of that is driven by one player? they're currently 12th in DVOA...what do you think would happen if Aaron Donald got hurt? Its not like they're super loaded with F7 talent in other spots. They've got Suh on a one year deal and....? 

A lot of this debatable but I think what i'm getting at is that this isnt like the 2013-14 Falcons were we've got Paul Worrilow and Tyson Jackson out here. There's a lot of talent on this team. The key is finding how to unlock it consistently. 

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59 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

I think a lot of this is debatable, tbh. 

I mean, obviously our defense isnt anywhere near the Bears. And we've had a really really bad season. But from a talent perspective, I dont think we're out of the league of most of these teams on either side of the ball. Assuming full health, our offensive 11 are just as talented (if not more) as Minnesota, GB, NO, Dal and Philly. Our defense has talent that is certainly comparable to Seattle, Carolina, Philly and probably Dallas. 

I think a lot of those teams have larger holes than you may think. Even in our nightmare season on offense, we're 10th in DVOA.....ahead of Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Dallas, and right behind GB. 

Defensively obviously our performance this year isnt comparable to any of these other teams. But Carolina's defense is pretty closer to ours in terms of level of play and so is Philly. Dallas has had a great year defensively and maybe thats the new normal but usually teams that make massive defensive jumps in one year regress hard the following year. The Rams defense is fine but how much of that is driven by one player? they're currently 12th in DVOA...what do you think would happen if Aaron Donald got hurt? Its not like they're super loaded with F7 talent in other spots. They've got Suh on a one year deal and....? 

A lot of this debatable but I think what i'm getting at is that this isnt like the 2013-14 Falcons were we've got Paul Worrilow and Tyson Jackson out here. There's a lot of talent on this team. The key is finding how to unlock it consistently. 

Yep, we have the talent. A few massive holes at starting positions can make everyone look bad. Having both starting OGs go down and weak backups really hurt our OL and sent the entire offense on a death spiral way over the ability of our OC to solve.  I think the players may have lost faith in what Sark was doing.

People don’t realize if you have quality at C,LT and RT but weakness at RG and LG, it makes them all look bad. Defensive coordinators know how to exploit confusion and weakness on offensive lines, especially when 2 of the 3 interior players are bad.

Again, Sark was in over his head and was getting outmatched on the chess board in game plans as well.  A more skilled OC would have helped us win a few more games even with the rest of the mess. 

What happened on defense was worse. Our veteran  playcallers at MLB, FS and SS all went down early and we started playing rookies from Yale, Kazee who played well but couldn’t have possibly filled the leadership role of Allen, and our enforcer in Neal. You couple that with the loss of Poe and Clayborn and our offense sputtering it just all came down on their heads.

But it can be fixed this offseason. That’s the point of my post.  Those 4 stud DTs in this years draft come at a perfect time for us to have a top pick.

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5 hours ago, Vandy said:

The mystery is that’s the D we saw last 1/3 of 2016 and throughout our playoff run. And then it just disappeared...

What happened to THAT Dan Quinn? 

He had more 10 year guys. Both on the coaching side and on the actual roster. Old guys help young guys believe and focus better. After 2016 the coaching presence took a step back and so did the veteran presence too. And I mean WINNING coaches and WINNING or atleast HIGHLY COMPETITIVE vets. Since those aspects have dwindled Quinn has been merely a shell of himself. In that way the Coach really is kinda similar to the Qb: They both need a pretty decent supporting cast to maximize their own strengths.

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5 hours ago, gazoo said:

I swear, a dominant DT to line up next to Grady and the entire defense automatically gets better. Tak and Beasley suddenly become way more effective coming off the edges, we suddenly become far more effective against the run, we can get our defense off the field quicker keeping them all fresh.

The disruptive 4 starting DL now have more control of game. When you have a hole in middle the other 3 starters all suffer. Senat played well at times, but he also got tossed around at times, especially when the other team needed to make a play. He will be a good rotating DT but not sure if he’s starter material.

Dieon Jones is one of the best young MLBs in the NFL. We really missed him this year. Neal is far better than our fans realize, he’s not just a good player efficient at covering TEs, he’s a vocal leader and an enforcer. Campbell is better than average, but his versatility is what helps us most in coverage and blitzing ability.  

You get a better DL in front of these guys, start affecting the QB and plugging up running lanes and I think defense makes a huge leap. Ball hawk Kazee gets more shot at picks.

We also need to cut the bad rotating players as well. We really missed what  Clayborn Brought to this defense, add that to hole Poe’s loss  created and the injuries to our playcallers on defense and it all collapsed. 

For a team needed defensive line help, we are in outstanding shape in this draft picking at top of each round and having 4th and 5th round compensatory picks. We can draft a stud immediate starting DT with our first pick, on OG in second, we can grab a pass rusher at top of 3rd  round, and still have several picks to grab another OG, a RB, LB, CB etc. 

 

Agree, a stud DT to go alongside Jarrett would make a huge difference in our pass rush from the edge. 

Agree also on Senat being only a rotational piece.

I’m more excited about this upcoming draft than I’ve been in years. I’m actually planning on being there in person. 

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32 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Agree, a stud DT to go alongside Jarrett would make a huge difference in our pass rush from the edge. 

Agree also on Senat being only a rotational piece.

I’m more excited about this upcoming draft than I’ve been in years. I’m actually planning on being there in person. 

I feel the same way about this draft  brother Vandy. If you are there, I may need to get your number to gets texts fr9m you! Haha

I’m absolutely loving the fact there are 4 top tiered DTs in this draft. The will all be gone by pick 10 probably but we should get our pick of at least two of the 4 if we keep sucking :)

Picking at top of each round is a really big deal and I love how many gems we’ve been getting out of our drafts, even middle and late rounds. We have a ton of picks. 

Look at Kazee for instance,that was a great pick. 

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22 minutes ago, gazoo said:

I feel the same way about this draft  brother Vandy. If you are there, I may need to get your number to gets texts fr9m you! Haha

I’m absolutely loving the fact there are 4 top tiered DTs in this draft. The will all be gone by pick 10 probably but we should get our pick of at least two of the 4 if we keep sucking :)

Picking at top of each round is a really big deal and I love how many gems we’ve been getting out of our drafts, even middle and late rounds. We have a ton of picks. 

Look at Kazee for instance,that was a great pick. 

Kazee, Jarrett, Freeman, Campbell, Rico  were all great mid-round picks by TD.

I find it funny folks been piling on TD this year when Quinn has not coached well. It’s been painful to watch, but every obstacle provides positives too. Kazee, Foye, Ito, Ridley, Hooper, Senat, oliver have all gotten valuable playing time and grown this year. 

Anyway, you and I agree the talent is all there except for just a couple missing pieces, which is why everyone should be excited about the opportunity this upcoming draft presents. 

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

Kazee, Jarrett, Freeman, Campbell, Rico  were all great mid-round picks by TD.

I find it funny folks been piling on TD this year when Quinn has not coached well. It’s been painful to watch, but every obstacle provides positives too. Kazee, Foye, Ito, Ridley, Hooper, Senat, oliver have all gotten valuable playing time and grown this year. 

Anyway, you and I agree the talent is all there except for just a couple missing pieces, which is why everyone should be excited about the opportunity this upcoming draft presents. 

 

Yeah, talent is not our issue for sure. No team has capable backups at every position and if any team gets decimated in certain areas they are in big trouble some years. But coaching is the underly8ng reason we were unable to rebound. 

Did you see that remarkable play by Foye against Green Bay where he sees a break in coverage, runs stride for stride with Graham 70 yards down field, doesn’t panic and knocks the ball away keeping Graham from a huge play? Alford gets a PI on that play every time.

for a freaking raw rookie LB our of Yale to make the play blew me away......that kid has a chance to be really special once he learns this game.

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On 12/12/2018 at 3:25 PM, gazoo said:

Sure, it looks really ugly, but the sky is not even remotely falling. This team is stacked with talent and we have been improving depth bigtime over the last several drafts. We absolutely have a few huge holes, (Offensive Coordinator, OG, and DT)  but we are in an excellent position to fill them with solid to top tiered replacements. We have one of the best QBs in the NFL who should still play at an elite level for minimum 5 more years if we protect him.

We really are not far off. We need new coordinators, any good NFL OC would jump at the opportunity to work with our group. A veteran ( not college) OC could turn offense around mmediately .....we are stacked. This is stil, DQs defense, I don’t see the DC job that difficult to correct. Same with any underperforming position coaches. 

We need a dominant, bad t9 the bone DT and the stars have aligned perfectly for us to get one with our top pick in 2019 draft. There are 4 top tier DTs in this draft, we should have our choice of 2 or 3 of them by our pick. This one pick could transform our DL. You put Grady and another dominant disruptive DT next him and  Tak gets 15 sacks next year.

We need a couple of OGs. We need to draft 2 this year with high picks and sign a veteran. Not sure what happened to Schraeder but he’s played well for 5 years, maybe he’s go personal issues distracting him  or an injury we don’t know about but he should be fine next year unless there is something we don’t know. You don’t play well for 5 years then forget how to play. 

We will get to pick at top of each round, and we get 4th and 5th round compensatory picks for Poe and Gabriel. We are in an excellent position to make an immediate rebound.

Our biggest issue is teams beating up our lines and the entire team collapsing. This is correctable, we have some awesome pieces already but need to get rid of the bad ones and stock up in draft. With one more dominant OL and DT to replace the weakest ones the team changes. But we have resources to get more than 2.

I see this as a fluke year where much of what could have gone wrong went wrong, exposing some weaknesses that needed to be fixed before moving up to next level. .As a team, I think we come back next year better than we were in 2016 and jump right back in the Super Bowl Hunt.

Sort of. I think 5 more good years of Ryan might be a little optimistic - not saying it can't happen, but I think after a few more years we will start seeing a decline.

I also think you are underestimating our needs. Alford is done, and Trufant is sketchy as well. At the least we need a CB and OT, and IMO would be a good idea to get a young C - Mack I think is going to continue his downward trend, but I think he'd be an AWESOME mentor. I'd love to grab a good C in the draft ~rd 3, but most people won't agree with that at all.

Also, DQ has a LONG way to go with game management. He is BAD. I'm not sure he's the guy that leads us to the promised land, but I hope I'm wrong.

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