jlrfalcon

Have the Falcons Really Benefited from Losing for Higher Draft Picks?

128 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I think it’s mainly due to the “Gurley Effect”. No matter who we selected at 8 there would be posters on this board that would never have been satisfied because we passed on Gurley. Unfortunately Beasley drew the short straw that year and there has been animosity ever since that point.

The same people argued me down about Freeman. 

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On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 7:50 AM, octoslash said:

Tankers think they're smarter football fans than those of us who actually cheer for our team to win games. 

Ever notice the tankers on this board are never happy, even when the Falcons win?

This is simply not true.  You can't paint everything with the same brush.  SMH

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On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 8:53 AM, Falcanuck said:

This is just simply untrue. Both statements. 

I DO think I am smarter than you if you think draft position doesn't matter, though.

Amen

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On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:15 AM, jlrfalcon said:

I wanted to make sure the title included Falcons in the title so it would not be moved to another board.  However, my question essentially remains whether we have really in the past benefited from having a pick that was a few spots higher?

In the long run, the Falcons are probably going to come out just as well picking #13 or #14 as #7 or #8.  Jake Matthews might not have been around if we had picked a few spots later but notice the Cowboys picked All-Pro Zack Martin at #16 that same draft.

Meanwhile, by finishing 4-12 vs. 8-8 creates a sense of "losing is OK" on a team.  This is one of Dan Quinn's biggest problems and it all goes back to his preseason philosophy where he considers wins irrelevant.  Notice how we never have the motivation on this team to have "comeback wins" and have games like Cleveland and Baltimore where we look like a bunch of "losers".

What do most of the people on this board want to "win" - the Superbowl or the #1 pick?  (BTW, notice how teams that continually are in the SB hunt are usually picking last in the 1st round).

Just to clear this up for you, 8 and 8 isn't going to win you a Super Bowl either...

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On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 2:36 PM, Sun Tzu 7 said:

You forgot Khalil Mack, the guy drafted in the spot before Matthews.  Which is funny because for 3 years all this board did was ***** about How the Falcons didn’t draft Mack.

But this is the thing people forget to mention in these threads about higher draft pisition.  The other rounds.  You don’t just draft higher in the first you draft higher in the 2nd, 3rd, etc

What if the Falcons won more games in 2015?  2-3 spots lower and they don’t take Jones in the 2nd.

Not saying they should tank but position in every round matters.

Very good point.

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54 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

The same people argued me down about Freeman. 

Same here. These are the same people that want to trade Julio and call him a “hood ornament”, yet begged us to draft an RB with the 8th overall pick. The last two Superbowl winning teams that drafted an RB in the first round were the Saints and Colts (Bush, Addai). Neither one of these players were impact players those years either. 

 

Edited by Sidecar Falcon
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1 hour ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Same here. These are the same people that want to trade Julio and call him a “hood ornament”, yet begged us to draft an RB with the 8th overall pick. The last two Superbowl winning teams that drafted an RB in the first round were the Saints and Colts (Bush, Addai). Neither one of these players were impact players those years either. 

 

I don’t mind taking a RB in the first, but don’t take it out on a player who is struggling but has the tools. If the Saints take him with Jordan he will eat every time we play him

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9 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

I don’t mind taking a RB in the first, but don’t take it out on a player who is struggling but has the tools. If the Saints take him with Jordan he will eat every time we play him

I don’t mind taking an RB if we need one and there’s not another position that we need more. At that point we needed a pass rusher in the worst way and Beasley was the best pure pass rusher available. 

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1 hour ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I don’t mind taking an RB if we need one and there’s not another position that we need more. At that point we needed a pass rusher in the worst way and Beasley was the best pure pass rusher available. 

He still isn’t that bad, but I guess Takk is way better with 1.5 more sacks and graded higher in PFF

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18 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

He still isn’t that bad, but I guess Takk is way better with 1.5 more sacks and graded higher in PFF

I’m curious to see if a new DC can improve their play. Dang near everyone on our defense is under performing in a few aspects. This seems to be a systemic issue. 

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27 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

He still isn’t that bad, but I guess Takk is way better with 1.5 more sacks and graded higher in PFF

The main beef i have with everyone always trashing on beasley and that pick is everyone knows for a fact we needed a pass rusher in the draft.  If they would take the time to go back and look at that draft and all the pass rushers who came out Beasley is the only 4-3 Edge rusher in that draft to go to a pro bowl and actually to this day leads all of them in sacks.  **** even this year i think he leads all of them in sacks for this season as well lol.  Ray, Dupree, Preston, all of them have been hot garbage for the most part or atleast not any better than beasley.  I would actually take Beasley over them at this point because he unlike them has atleast 1 year of proven beasting out which means it is in there somewhere we just gotta find a way to get it out.  The others haven't proven to do anything close to what he has shown.

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2 hours ago, FalconFan13 said:

The main beef i have with everyone always trashing on beasley and that pick is everyone knows for a fact we needed a pass rusher in the draft.  If they would take the time to go back and look at that draft and all the pass rushers who came out Beasley is the only 4-3 Edge rusher in that draft to go to a pro bowl and actually to this day leads all of them in sacks.  **** even this year i think he leads all of them in sacks for this season as well lol.  Ray, Dupree, Preston, all of them have been hot garbage for the most part or atleast not any better than beasley.  I would actually take Beasley over them at this point because he unlike them has atleast 1 year of proven beasting out which means it is in there somewhere we just gotta find a way to get it out.  The others haven't proven to do anything close to what he has shown.

Exactly. Falcons fans will falcons fan though

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42 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

Exactly. Falcons fans will falcons fan though

It's what they do best LOL   I will say this though where as i want to keep Beasley as he is young and atleast talented i don't want to do it at a crazy price tag.  If we could resign him for a few more years at around 4 to 6 mil a year.  While adding more edge rusher to pair with him and Takk then im all for it and it will do nothing but make us deeper and more fresh during the game with rotations.   Now if he asks for like 10 to 12+ a year then as much as i like him and his potential he can get to walking at those numbers because we can do better with that kind of money.

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18 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

It's what they do best LOL   I will say this though where as i want to keep Beasley as he is young and atleast talented i don't want to do it at a crazy price tag.  If we could resign him for a few more years at around 4 to 6 mil a year.  While adding more edge rusher to pair with him and Takk then im all for it and it will do nothing but make us deeper and more fresh during the game with rotations.   Now if he asks for like 10 to 12+ a year then as much as i like him and his potential he can get to walking at those numbers because we can do better with that kind of money.

I could see us cutting him and then resigning him....ala Derrick Shelby

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3 hours ago, FalconFan13 said:

It's what they do best LOL   I will say this though where as i want to keep Beasley as he is young and atleast talented i don't want to do it at a crazy price tag.  If we could resign him for a few more years at around 4 to 6 mil a year.  While adding more edge rusher to pair with him and Takk then im all for it and it will do nothing but make us deeper and more fresh during the game with rotations.   Now if he asks for like 10 to 12+ a year then as much as i like him and his potential he can get to walking at those numbers because we can do better with that kind of money.

Not too high, but i think Takk, Beasley, Irvin, and Means are a good rotation. We need interior guys to help out and maybe a LB. Foye should be our nickel LB. 

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4 hours ago, Knight of God said:

Not too high, but i think Takk, Beasley, Irvin, and Means are a good rotation. We need interior guys to help out and maybe a LB. Foye should be our nickel LB. 

What's your opinion of devondre? When you say another linebacker, are you talking about ILB or OLB? Who do you have in mind in the draft? 

Honestly, I hope we get the number 2 pick and trade back twice to acquire additional 2nd and third round picksthen go all offensive and defensive line in the first two rounds. Then use the third to get another play making safety and a nasty pass rushing olb. Pick up a bigger running back in the 4th or 5th if we don't plan to use Brian hill anymore. 

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On 12/9/2018 at 5:15 PM, 175_Ranger_Falcon said:

I have to agree. And I love me some Julio. But we could rebuild this team faster if we acquire more picks by trading Julio. If we build the trenches, we can find receivers that Matt can throw to.

I think the deciding factor should be whether we're going to need to give Julio a new contract. There's no way we should be paying a WR who is 30 and has an injury history more money when that money could be spent on the lines or on defense. His on-field value to us is declining just as a factor of age. At the same time, I think his trade value would remain high to a team intrigued by his marketability value and his gaudy numbers.

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7 hours ago, ShadyRef said:

What's your opinion of devondre? When you say another linebacker, are you talking about ILB or OLB? Who do you have in mind in the draft? 

Honestly, I hope we get the number 2 pick and trade back twice to acquire additional 2nd and third round picksthen go all offensive and defensive line in the first two rounds. Then use the third to get another play making safety and a nasty pass rushing olb. Pick up a bigger running back in the 4th or 5th if we don't plan to use Brian hill anymore. 

Sounds fun but good luck finding a trade partner and if it doesn’t pan out and the player taken at 2 is the best this whole board, along with Blank, will not be thrilled.

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48 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

Sounds fun but good luck finding a trade partner and if it doesn’t pan out and the player taken at 2 is the best this whole board, along with Blank, will not be thrilled.

Agree. Think we'll win one or two more to pizz off the tank crowd though. See us picking around 7 or 8.

If we pick at 2, it had better be Quinnen Williams or - if you're dead set on a trade - a trade down for Jeffrey Simmons. I want someone next to Jarrett who can consistently push the pocket. Someone MEAN.

 

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23 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Same here. These are the same people that want to trade Julio and call him a “hood ornament”, yet begged us to draft an RB with the 8th overall pick. The last two Superbowl winning teams that drafted an RB in the first round were the Saints and Colts (Bush, Addai). Neither one of these players were impact players those years either. 

 

 

21 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I don’t mind taking an RB if we need one and there’s not another position that we need more. At that point we needed a pass rusher in the worst way and Beasley was the best pure pass rusher available. 

RB was as much a need in 2015 as DE. We were in the SJax vortex, Free was in his second year, Tone was coming off an injury and Quizz was a slow back. We hadn't been able to run the ball in four years. Dimi even thought so. He drafted a RB and signed another one. Gurley was right there for the taking at a need position, and he passed. Jeez. Dude is probably the best overall player from that draft. I think Beasley will end up being the 4th-8th best pass rusher from the 2015 draft. There were plenty pass rushing options outside of the first. Hunter, Clark, Flowers, Golden, Smith, you name it.

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10 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

 

RB was as much a need in 2015 as DE. We were in the SJax vortex, Free was in his second year, Tone was coming off an injury and Quizz was a slow back. We hadn't been able to run the ball in four years. Dimi even thought so. He drafted a RB and signed another one. Gurley was right there for the taking at a need position, and he passed. Jeez. Dude is probably the best overall player from that draft. I think Beasley will end up being the 4th-8th best pass rusher from the 2015 draft. There were plenty pass rushing options outside of the first. Hunter, Clark, Flowers, Golden, Smith, you name it.

What happened? All I remember was being run off with, “RBs are a dime a dozen, they are being phased out, the league is evolving” so now since Gurley went to UGA it’s a thing? 

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12 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

 

RB was as much a need in 2015 as DE. We were in the SJax vortex, Free was in his second year, Tone was coming off an injury and Quizz was a slow back. We hadn't been able to run the ball in four years. Dimi even thought so. He drafted a RB and signed another one. Gurley was right there for the taking at a need position, and he passed. Jeez. Dude is probably the best overall player from that draft. I think Beasley will end up being the 4th-8th best pass rusher from the 2015 draft. There were plenty pass rushing options outside of the first. Hunter, Clark, Flowers, Golden, Smith, you name it.

Pass rush was a way bigger need than RB and for much longer. Not to mention Shanahan’s scheme relies on an RBBC scheme. It made zero sense for us to draft him at 8 given the mitigating circumstances. He’s a talented running back but not high in the need list. The last teams that drafted an RB in the first round and won the Super Bowl were the Saints and Colts. And neither Addai or Bush were integral to their team. In the end it was and still is the right decision. 

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5 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

What happened? All I remember was being run off with, “RBs are a dime a dozen, they are being phased out, the league is evolving” so now since Gurley went to UGA it’s a thing? 

^This

There are so many RBs putting up similar numbers to Gurley, that were drafted in much later rounds. Drafting one in the first with our defense the way it was, would have been dumb. 

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13 hours ago, Knight of God said:

Not too high, but i think Takk, Beasley, Irvin, and Means are a good rotation. We need interior guys to help out and maybe a LB. Foye should be our nickel LB. 

The only exception would be if Bosa drops due to injuries. Not sold on Williams. Ever since Anderson buster out, I’ve been leery of limited production players. 

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