Sandy5prings

From an NFL scouting guru at the Ravens game - Falcons need to draft 5 OL/DL next year

87 posts in this topic

22 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Funny how everyone wants us to draft bpa right up until we do. 

No man.  BPA does a team no good if they don't need that position or if they have a glaring hole somewhere else.  Riddley was a great draft.  IF we had a solid O and D line.  Then it becomes a pretty much wasted pick unless we think he can come in and replace JJ.

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

It’s a combination of things. Easy to figure out scheme when there’s no running game at all. 

Easy to attack a one dimensional offense and exploit a defense that has no pass rush.

Edited by TNFalcon1
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17 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Funny how everyone wants us to draft bpa right up until we do. 

^ This

Very few posters have been consistent with this. Personally I think our draft strategy should adjust based on who’s left on the board.

Hypothetically if there are two players on the board, the first being the 15th rated Guard, and the other the 2nd rated RB. I think you pick the RB. Conversely if the 1 rated WR is there and the 5 rated Guard as well, you take the Guard. Now there are way more nuances and scenarios than that but I think it’s dependent. 

Having just one way of drafting all the time sets teams up for failure. Needs based drafting may lead to a team of mediocre players while BPA drafting leads to multiple positions being stocked full of players we may never use or may be more salary prohibited than others. For instance if a team has the #1 pick two years in a row. And in those drafts the best player is a QB. Then by BPA standards you draft the QBs regardless of mitigating factors. Both are flawed in their approach when done 100% of the time. 

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Yep draft and free agency should be all about the OL and DL and we need to draft different kind of players on both lines. No more under weight finesse guys we need serious size on both our Lines. If our scheme is not adjustable to work with larger guys on both lines then change the scheme or fire the coaches.

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13 minutes ago, schwarzenegger321 said:

No man.  BPA does a team no good if they don't need that position or if they have a glaring hole somewhere else.  Riddley was a great draft.  IF we had a solid O and D line.  Then it becomes a pretty much wasted pick unless we think he can come in and replace JJ.

Hindsight being 20/20, the Falcons could have easily used the Ridley pick on Braden Smith, but I'm not sure that one player would change that much and with Sanu likely gone in 2019 they would have to use another high(ish) pick to replace him. The draft is about finding 8-10 year players and both Ridley and Smith look like 8-10 year players. Sometimes picking a 8-10 year player doesn't look like the right move in one year or another due to different factors, but in the end you always want to find talent and the Falcons got talent. 

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2 hours ago, Sandy5prings said:

Not that it is a surprise 

..............only after signing  TWO FA O Linemen.  Takes too long for draftees to get up to speed, except in rare cases.

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24 minutes ago, Jpg428gggg said:

While I agree that we need to invest heavily in our lines this offseason, the comment about 5 guys at a minimum is a bit extreme. We have talented players on both lines, but I don't think we are setting this team up for success. I put a lot of our problems on the coaching staff. If I was a defensive or offensive line coach for the Falcons, I would be updating my resume as we speak. In order to be a top offensive line, you don't need 5 all pros. You can get by with 1-2 elite players and the rest being average to above average. The problem is we have two top tier players (Mack and Matthews), but the rest of the guys are among the worst in football.

We have too much talent on both sides of the ball to be playing this bad. I still don't understand why we couldn't force Lamar to beat us in the air. Everyone saw how terrible he looked throwing the ball down the field. Instead, we let them eat up a ton of clock and keep the ball away from our defense.

But think about if we had 5 new players + better coaching! BOOM

i think an issue is that we think we are OK because we have bodies. I’m a firm believer in trying to make the lines ELITE. 

the problem the FO is thinking we can get by with 1-2 elite players. 

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1 minute ago, Summerhill said:

Hindsight being 20/20, the Falcons could have easily used the Ridley pick on Braden Smith, but I'm not sure that one player would change that much and with Sanu likely gone in 2019 they would have to use another high(ish) pick to replace him. The draft is about finding 8-10 year players and both Ridley and Smith look like 8-10 year players. Sometimes picking a 8-10 year player doesn't look like the right move in one year or another due to different factors, but in the end you always want to find talent and the Falcons got talent. 

I disagree and most teams that consistently do well don't do this.  You draft for your need.  Sometimes that means getting the BPA, especially if you have a star that is aging.  Grabbing Riddley this year was stupid.  Going corner in the second was stupid.  Everyone knew we had glaring holes in both lines and chose to ignore them.

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1 hour ago, etherdome said:

I have been so disappointed in our OL's for so long that I have lost objectivity.  In your opinion, what is the biggest problem?

 

Team? Quinn ...I don’t want him fired, but he’s the biggest obstacle to team moving forward. Good news is he also can be the solution, if he/TD/Blank correct this. A good start would be replacing both coordinators. 

offense? Misses freeman more than anyone in here is willing to admit. 

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I have no faith that our coaching and or management can find better fits in the draft or free agency. Not to mention you have to go with whats available, thats how you get a situational pass rushing DE at best from the 8th over all pick. LOL even the 3rd pick Flowers, who we all would have loved to have is on his second team since the draft. Think you have to get specific needs in free agency, and be a little more flexible in the draft. Otherwise you pigeon hole yourself to early round busts Hageman, Konz and now potentially Beasley. BUT Ill also say while this staff is way better than Smitty developing talent, but still has a long way to go. **** Patriots plug in a 7th round rookie center in their OL,like its nothing. Sorry but even Crumpler said it, he learned more in one season with the Patriots than his whole career with the Falcons. Dimitroff should have some insight on how they select grade and up coach players. LOL all the while our two CB's locked up long term look venerable as hale, spent a mini fortune on a a mini concussed multi injury RB. There is soooo much going on with this team think it needs at least a fresh and different look at player evaluations and grades.

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2 hours ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

Go all in on the OL/DL

Any other need should be obtained through FA or vise-versa

You are assuming that drafted O linemen can come right in and start, that is rare.  D Linemen are more likely to be immediate starters,  Free Agency is the answer for the O line.  We need help before Julio and Ryan apply for SS benefits.

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1 hour ago, Jesus said:

 

If I understand correctly, the defense was built to deal with attacking the ball once it is in the hands of the runner. That's why there is so much speed. They sit back wait for the throw then everyone goes to stop it. That works when facing a team that plays right into that. Unfortunately for the Falcons, everyone watches film and sees the exploits. When you see the Ravens they put a lot of speed on the defense as well, but use it to attack the QB. It's working for them. This reactive style defense isn't working.

^^^ this

The NFL is a league of change....  adjustments are made to what you do and you have to adjust back. It's constant... what worked 3 years ago probably won't work today unless you have tweaked, adjusted, modified, etc.

My biggest issue with Quinn is that I think he is still trying to do the exact same thing he was doing 4-5 years ago at Seattle and refuses to acknowledge that the league has adjusted and knows how to attack it. He just doggedly hangs on to it and believes that "process" cures all when it doesn't if your model is out of date. On top of this, he is also trying to operate his scheme without the personnel to run it. I've said it before here, but the mark of a great coach is when he can modify what he wants to do based on the reality that he has in front of him. In that regard he has failed miserably. If someone wants to believe this scheme is still effective in a perfect world when you have the players to run it, then so be it... but we don't have that this season and there has been little adjustment to that fact.

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1 hour ago, thesouphead said:

did said scout know that we had our 2nd and 3rd string guards playing that game and that our starters were not in pads?     just curious how a scout can judge our starters when they didn't play.

Our injured starters aren't that great anyway, and realistically if you are playing other guys cause of injury THEY are the starters. We found out this year our depth is horrible

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Show Trufaunt and Freeman the door. Restructure others or be done with them, Then maybe they can sign so free agent linemen. They had better daft a few as well. Hard to trust the future to those here if the lines are not fixed with some boys that can push the pile. 

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Non NFL scouting gurus said the same thing last year... and the year before. The people who make the decisions said, we'll do our job and you do yours.

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3 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

Our injured starters aren't that great anyway, and realistically if you are playing other guys cause of injury THEY are the starters. We found out this year our depth is horrible

You are talking about a league where it is hard to quality starters all the way across the line in general,  To expect teams to have 8 really good starters on the o line is just a fantasy.   The teams that have done that had to sacrifice other areas on the team to their demise.  

And your premise is false.    If the Rams lose Gurley to a 5 week injury next week.  It would be silly for anybody to claim that Malcolm Brown is the 2019 starter over Gurley.   No..your back ups are not your starters when the starers get healthy.   It's the rarity that a backup out performs the starters...not the norm. 

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2 hours ago, ZoneOne01 said:

Is the goal to be just decent on the defensive line? This recent strategy of bargain bin shopping hasn’t resulted in a dominant line. They need to draft a player or two that will begin to push the defense towards elite territory. 

 

They've tried. Beasley looked special for a bit. Takk looks above average. But true ... we need our Von Miller.

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2 minutes ago, FinalScore2.0 said:

Non NFL scouting gurus said the same thing last year... and the year before. The people who make the decisions said, we'll do our job and you do yours.

 

 

PFF O line rankings:

2015: 4th ATL

2016: 6th ATL

2017: 2nd ATL

 

It's almost as if something is missing this year....weird.  

 

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, HMFIC said:

You are assuming that drafted O linemen can come right in and start, that is rare.  D Linemen are more likely to be immediate starters,  Free Agency is the answer for the O line.  We need help before Julio and Ryan apply for SS benefits.

Yes and no. We don't have the capacity room to get quality trench guys maybe an average OLmen but that's it. 

Spend all picks on trenches hoping for hoping to find a few gems and some quality backups

 

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1 hour ago, HMFIC said:

You are assuming that drafted O linemen can come right in and start, that is rare.  D Linemen are more likely to be immediate starters,  Free Agency is the answer for the O line.  We need help before Julio and Ryan apply for SS benefits.

This has been Dimi's philosophy during this Ryan - Julio era. They are in win now mode and that's why Dimi speaks of free agency for O linemen. It's also why he only draft O linemen in the later rounds. But it's not a great recipe for the future.

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Man I hope we don't pull the trigger on an OL at pick 5-9 with a beast DL prospect waiting to be taken. I don't think there are any Nelson's waiting to be grabbed in this upcoming draft - wait until the 2nd round or grab a FA gem.

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3 hours ago, Flyin' In DC said:

I have a question for the Personnel/Draft Gurus. Does the front office have no ability to assess O-Line talent or do they think that that is just a secondary need and thus don't address it.

I also think we need a Strong-willed OC that has a lot of experience and will work as an assistant HC  

From what I've seen, they relied on Levitre and Fusco to get it done.  Levitre just can't stay healthy anymore and then Fusco got hurt (most likely due to his own shortcomings)  Biggest problem is that college o-line play doesn't translate well to the pro game anymore causing a shortage (that's scouts saying that, not me) and that it's a crap shoot.  Free agency is nice but the good ones rarely make it to free agency.  I believe going to Beadles instead of Garland shows our staff knows there's a problem there's just not a lot you can do to fix it until the offseason.

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