g-dawg

December Recruiting Thread - let’s close the gap!!!

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9 minutes ago, Elo53 said:

He’s definitely a dgd

Great story coming out of New Manchester HS in Douglasville as a 3* RB and non-qualifier lacking grades.   Worked hard, got his grades up and became a Dean’s List student at UGA.   This is the story you want to be able to tell to parents of future prospects on recruiting trail.

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17 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Not understanding the criticism of Herrien as a player.  He is a really solid player - picks up first downs, blocks well, good YPC, doesn’t fumble and is versatile- no diva in him at all.   If anything, I would say he’s underrated.

He hasn't impressed me at all after the first half of his freshman year, sure his YPC might look good but if he was really that good, there wouldn't have been a reason for Georgia to drop the 3 back rotation while fighting to win the East again. To me he seems to mostly be a product of the OL and running against tired defenses (Tennessee and South Carolina). Outside of garbage time, he mostly hasn't done a thing after the first half of his freshman season outside of probably being a practice warrior.

It doesn't take anything from his story, but I don't think he's anything special at all.

Edited by VoiceofReason95

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Just now, VoiceofReason95 said:

He hasn't impressed me at all after the first half of his freshman year, sure his YPC might look good but if he was really that good, there wouldn't have been a reason for Georgia to drop the 3 back rotation while fighting to win the East again. To me he seems to mostly be a product of the OL and running against tired defenses (Tennessee and South Carolina). Outside of garbage time, he mostly hasn't done a thing after the first half of his freshman season.

It doesn't take anything from his story, but I don't think he's anything special at all.

Well not worried if he hasn’t impressed you.  He has impressed the coaches and they see him every day.  Not every player is a star - gotta have some “Joe’s” on the team.   He earns every carry he gets and he doesn’t hurt us when he’s in there.  There will always room for players like Brian Herrien at UGA.

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4 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Well not worried if he hasn’t impressed you.  He has impressed the coaches and they see him every day.  Not every player is a star - gotta have some “Joe’s” on the team.   He earns every carry he gets and he doesn’t hurt us when he’s in there.  There will always room for players like Brian Herrien at UGA.

Well, if he impressed the coaches, explain the reasoning for basically dropping to 2 backs until the East was won? Given today's history with RB shelf lives, they 100% would have kept up the 3 back if they were that impressed with him even after the LSU loss. They saw it important to "not" to for 2 games to get the East locked down.

I should also add though that I swung and missed bigly on Elijah Holyfield, also didn't think he was good either for similar reasons but was eating crow by the second game of the season on him.

Edited by VoiceofReason95

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29 minutes ago, Turkeydawg said:

I think EVERY coach tells every recruit, you can carve a role out for yourself if you progress quickly enough.  I think it's asinine for any kid to assume that pt is guaranteed.  As I said, who would Cook be taking snaps from and it's up to the Cook to put himself in position to take snaps from someone.

And Cook didn't get to campus until summer, correct?

I’m not making the argument for Cook and I don’t know what he was told. People around him say he was lied to. That is a very common comment about UGA recruiting now. Take it for whatever it’s worth. You can hold up your ideal version of how our coaches recruit or how you think a recruit should think, do whatever you want with it.

As I said, I think generally they are very upfront with kids and foster good relationships, but you don’t stack up 4 and 5 star players like cordwood by telling them they’re another cog in the machine. We knew before Kirby came here that he’s an elite, cut throat recruiter. Folks have blinders on now that he’s doing it for us. Bama has loads of guys who transferred out... LOADS. It will happen at UGA too with the way we are recruiting. If a kid was lied to and transfers out it doesn’t mean they are soft or lack sense or something. 

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2 minutes ago, Carter said:

I’m not making the argument for Cook and I don’t know what he was told. People around him say he was lied to. That is a very common comment about UGA recruiting now. Take it for whatever it’s worth. You can hold up your ideal version of how our coaches recruit or how you think a recruit should thing, do whatever you want with it.

As I said, I think generally they are very upfront with kids and foster good relationships, but you don’t stack up 4 and 5 star players like cordwood by telling them they’re another cog in the machine. We knew before Kirby came here that he’s an elite, cut throat recruiter. Folks have blinders on now that he’s doing it for us. Bama has loads of guys who transferred out... LOADS. It will happen at UGA too with the way we are recruiting. If a kid was lied to and transfers out it doesn’t mean they are soft or lack sense or something. 

Agreed.   There is NO CHANCE to get this much talent in Butts Mehre and keep them all happy - impossible task.   Every coach of every school that recruits in deep waters for the best prospects has to paint a picture for opportunity to come in and compete and have chance for starting early.   If Kirby’s pitch was “Come to UGA, ride the pine for 2 years and then maybe you could start”. - how you think that plays on recruiting trail?

Bama couldn’t hardly get Quinnen Williams on the field last year and this year he is Outland Trophy winner for best Defensive lineman and probably a Top 3 overall pick in 2019 NFL Draft.

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There a video out there of Fields implicitly saying he was guaranteed ZERO playing time. Just that the best player would play. Now I don't know what was said after he got to campus during the season but some of these kids come in with an ego that won't fit through the door and they think they can beat a guy that's been working out and practicing/playing every day at the college level for 2-3 years. You heard it yesterday when Sanders said he will win the Heisman as a true freshman. I promise you it's not the coaches putting that in his head. These guys get told they are all world by ******** who never touched a football or played anything above rec ball and kids over time start to believe it. It causes problems when they realize that they don't sit as high in the world as they were told they did.

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10 minutes ago, Ransack said:

There a video out there of Fields implicitly saying he was guaranteed ZERO playing time. Just that the best player would play. Now I don't know what was said after he got to campus during the season but some of these kids come in with an ego that won't fit through the door and they think they can beat a guy that's been working out and practicing/playing every day at the college level for 2-3 years. You heard it yesterday when Sanders said he will win the Heisman as a true freshman. I promise you it's not the coaches putting that in his head. These guys get told they are all world by ******** who never touched a football or played anything above rec ball and kids over time start to believe it. It causes problems when they realize that they don't sit as high in the world as they were told they did.

Yeah but if you have been reading a lot of the supposed insider back behind the curtain accounts, it paints a picture where perhaps Fields was “earning it and outplaying” Fromm in practice.

I believe the margin between these two players behind the scenes was much closer than what is thought on these UGA message boards.

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Yeah and a part of "solving" that issue is changing the culture at UGA where these guys come in already bought in and willing to work for 2-3 years if that's what it takes. Some guys are already built that way, some guys have to buy in.

Ego is a big part of it and I think with Fields that is definitely part of his problem. He didn't come in expecting the job, he came in expecting that he would beat Fromm straight up and the coaches would put his talent to best use. Neither of those things happened and it became clear that the coaches either didn't know how to or didn't want to game plan around his abilities.

Elite recruiting problems lol

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I believe a lot of the guys that bash Fields - not just here but other places like the Rant - are really going to be shocked and stunned when they see a full year of Justin Fields as a starter for a school like Ohio State.   The kid is gonna produce somewhere at a very high level.   Now if he goes to FSU, he might be injured on every dropback.   

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1 hour ago, Carter said:

I saw guys who said they talked to DRob though and he wasn’t under any false impression according to them. Said that DRob talked about not being conditioned for SEC football and still working on blocking better. At Cal and many other places the receivers just run and catch, that’s their role. The SEC being a lot more run heavy with FAST defensive players requires more physical play by receivers and willingness to block anyone. From what I saw he understood that and wanted to work.

Not saying Cook doesn’t want to do all that but I think he was misled when we were recruiting him and @youngbloodz will tell you coaches will say about anything. In general I think our staff is good about being upfront with guys and selling the idea of competing for playing time. But I’m sure they definitely play it up some when necessary to get a guy like Cook.

Yes sir they will. Say anything to get you on campus 

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25 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I believe a lot of the guys that bash Fields - not just here but other places like the Rant - are really going to be shocked and stunned when they see a full year of Justin Fields as a starter for a school like Ohio State.   The kid is gonna produce somewhere at a very high level.   Now if he goes to FSU, he might be injured on every dropback.   

I don't think anyone doubts his ability, nor will they be surprised when he has had more time under his belt and shows out.  I just think that people were not ready for him to take the lead as a true freshman.  I think most would have liked to see him used more and as he got more comfortable, then a true competition could be held.  He came in behind the 8 ball, looking back at how many real reps Fromm had received and his knowledge of the offense, not to mention ability to read defenses.  

Edited by Turkeydawg
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1 minute ago, Turkeydawg said:

I don't think anyone doubts his ability, nor will they be surprised when he has had more time at the next level and shows out.  I just think that people were not ready for him to take the lead as a true freshman.  I think most would have liked to see him used more and as he got more comfortable, then a true competition could be held.  He came in behind the 8 ball, looking back at how many real reps Fromm had received and his knowledge of the offense, not to mention ability to read defenses.  

agree.   Fields didn't walk into the ideal situation - obviously!   I also believe that maybe Kirby/Chaney were a little less than honest about their willingnes to play the best player in practice - I don't believe for a minute that Fromm was the best practice player every week - I don't believe they started out evenly in that way.    At this point, rather pointless to keep talking about it.    Fields will have the ability to take over a game in a way that Fromm cannot - this is what I believe - we will see how it plays out - remember the last two Heisman Trophy winners/QBs were transfers.

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

Yeah but these kids have been ELITE their entire lives - best player on the field in every game they likely played.   They hear from coaches on recruiting trail from UGA:  “Come to UGA and be a part of a great team.  We have great OL and scheme, in huge games - RBU, etc.   We think you can be great in our system but you will be going against other great players - nothing promised to you.”

Kids don’t really here the part about how hard the competition will be - they think - “I got this”

Perhaps their HS coaches and parents could have done better in keeping the kid grounded....  while they’re enjoying their “elite talent” growing up. I’ve seen it first hand with several kids over the years...

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Just now, m2Falcons said:

Perhaps their HS coaches and parents could have done better in keeping the kid grounded....  while they’re enjoying their “elite talent” growing up. I’ve seen it first hand with several kids over the years...

you always here when the college prospects get to the NFL and they say it's a big adjustment getting used to the "speed of the game" at NFL level.

Well going from HS to a school like Bama/UGA/Ohio State - probably even a bigger jump.

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It all depends on what sort of system he's put in. Is it a walk to the line and look at the sideline for a check. Run the play and if the first read is covered then run system? Or is it a call the play in the huddle, have two plays in hand, walk to the line, read the defense, check into the right play, adjust the line protections, call motion, and then execute a multiple route tree concept based on coverage? 

If you were wondering we run the latter and you aren't going to play if you can't execute it.  If everyone remembers they insulated Fromm quite a bit as a freshman. Some called in handcuffing. Fields got the same treatment.

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19 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

agree.   Fields didn't walk into the ideal situation - obviously!   I also believe that maybe Kirby/Chaney were a little less than honest about their willingnes to play the best player in practice - I don't believe for a minute that Fromm was the best practice player every week - I don't believe they started out evenly in that way.    At this point, rather pointless to keep talking about it.    Fields will have the ability to take over a game in a way that Fromm cannot - this is what I believe - we will see how it plays out - remember the last two Heisman Trophy winners/QBs were transfers.

I think what the coaches could count on, is that Fromm knew what the right decision was and was so aware of reading the defense, that he gave us the best chance to win.  I think Fields was too quick to try and run, instead of going through his progressions.  He was a freshman, so that is understandable.

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1 minute ago, Turkeydawg said:

I think what the coaches could count on, is that Fromm knew what the right decision was and was so aware of reading the defense, that he gave us the best chance to win.  I think Fields was too quick to try and run, instead of going through his progressions.  He was a freshman, so that is understandable.

again,  when you go in for 1 play at a time, you tend to want to make a "positive play" every single time.  When you get 1-3 dropbacks a game you aren't going to drop back, read three progressions and throw the ball away.   The reason he was making one read and running  was probably because he likely was told to do that and then run if not there.   There has been soooooo much crap made of this "Justin cannot read the field and go through progressions" - no offense to you but I think it's a load of crap.   I don't doubt that Fromm reads the defense better with his greater experience and better at reading defense - but Fields not horrible at it by a long shot and he can do it.  What's ironic is everyone wanted a QB that could run - and then when we got one - and he ran - he got criticized for it.

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13 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

again,  when you go in for 1 play at a time, you tend to want to make a "positive play" every single time.  When you get 1-3 dropbacks a game you aren't going to drop back, read three progressions and throw the ball away.   The reason he was making one read and running  was probably because he likely was told to do that and then run if not there.   There has been soooooo much crap made of this "Justin cannot read the field and go through progressions" - no offense to you but I think it's a load of crap.   I don't doubt that Fromm reads the defense better with his greater experience and better at reading defense - but Fields not horrible at it by a long shot and he can do it.  What's ironic is everyone wanted a QB that could run - and then when we got one - and he ran - he got criticized for it.

He got criticized for running too quickly.  If you don't go through your progressions, your essentially just a rb in the wild dawg. Yes, there was a small sample size to go off of, which makes it all the more important to know exactly where you check down is, or 2nd read.  I don't doubt he will get it, but it just won't be here.

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6 minutes ago, Turkeydawg said:

He got criticized for running too quickly.  If you don't go through your progressions, your essentially just a rb in the wild dawg. Yes, there was a small sample size to go off of, which makes it all the more important to know exactly where you check down is, or 2nd read.  I don't doubt he will get it, but it just won't be here.

you also don't know what Fields was told to do on those dropbacks, either.   I will let it go but that's my point - unless you know, you don't know - neither do I.

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I've been saying that I might try to figure out how to drop a little cash on Fields winning the Heisman Trophy if he does somehow go to Oklahoma and Big 12's defenses, so I obviously like his talent too. I just don't think, with the philosophy that Georgia has on offense that it would have fully shined through and made a significant difference if he was given the starting job here.

Of course, that raises other questions as well, pointing right at offensive philosophy. Kirby has been trying to change things through recruiting, but I'm doubtful you can really out Alabama, Alabama by playing their (old) game when you get to the field. Even if you go by their business recruiting wise and stocking talent, I do think you still need, while not necessarily a GREAT dual threat QB performance, honestly more multiple stud performances, including one by your QB, and probably a little Lady Luck too instead of just winning straight up. I'd feel better about the ability to do it if 2017 didn't get really choked away, but alas. (in 2018, Georgia really wasn't the better team) It feels like Jimbo will likely simply try to out Bama, Bama as well, so that will be interesting to keep an eye on too.

Edited by VoiceofReason95
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10 minutes ago, VoiceofReason95 said:

I've been saying that I might try to figure out how to drop a little cash on Fields winning the Heisman Trophy if he does somehow go to Oklahoma and Big 12's defenses, so I obviously like his talent too. I just don't think, with the philosophy that Georgia has on offense that it would have fully shined through and made a significant difference if he was given the starting job here.

Of course, that raises other questions as well, pointing right at offensive philosophy. Kirby has been trying to change things through recruiting, but I'm doubtful you can really out Alabama, Alabama by playing their (old) game when you get to the field. Even if you go by their business recruiting wise and stocking talent, I do think you still need, while not necessarily a GREAT dual threat QB performance, honestly more multiple stud performances, including one by your QB, and probably a little Lady Luck too instead of just winning straight up. I'd feel better about the ability to do it if 2017 didn't get really choked away, but alas. (in 2018, Georgia really wasn't the better team) It feels like Jimbo will likely simply try to out Bama, Bama as well, so that will be interesting to keep an eye on too.

If UGA keeps recruiting at Bama level, the results should eventually even out.  I do think Saban outcoached Kirby in 2nd half of both of those games but Kirby outprepared and outcoached Saban in 1st half.   Saban is the GOAT but Kirby will get there.

Bama still probably gonna be favored next year over us but we have been capable of beating Bama for two years now - once it turns, it could really swing in our favor.

As to offensive system, you are right that Dawgs system is not set up to be a QB take the game over system - however, with read option, play-action and all those plays - a kid like Fields could easily turn it into a highflying offense. -  Alas, we will never know.  We might not get a QB prospect like Fields again for next 5 years though.   Hope I'm wrong about that.   

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