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Oline is not an easy fix


DMT11
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Sucks but this is a problem the league has had for awhile.  Each year many GMs talk about the lack of developed olinemen coming into the league which is why a lot of them dont get chosen in first round because even though they have raw talent they still need to develope, because they are all used to the more simple offenses in college.  Jake took longer than expected, the Saints had to trade thier best weapon to get a center and keep drafting high and signing guys to put together a good line.  Just drafting some linemen in the first few rounds will not fix it for next year unfortunately.  We still need to draft them, but we are going to have to be aggressive in fixing it with established players because the drafted guys just arent ready as soon as they used to be, DIMI has talked about this in depth the last few drafts leading up to the Spring.  

We have so much invested in our offense we just cant split it up across the draft, we need to bring in established vets and keep drafting DEF guys - and let some go when they arent worth resigning, I really think thats the only way we realistically get back to contention in one year, and Im pretty sure they know this.  

If Shreader really is done, then we are gonna have to get 1 good tackle and 1 good guard min - in FA --- 

 

 

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Agree with next year not going to be better because we draft some OL. Would be miraculous to get just one who can contribute from Day One. FA OLinemen are going to be pricey though.

If we're going to get one or two in free agency, some players on the roster are going to have to be cut and I'm fine with that. I think we have a good selection to choose from.

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4 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Agree with next year not going to be better because we draft some OL. Would be miraculous to get just one who can contribute from Day One. FA OLinemen are going to be pricey though.

If we're going to get one or two in free agency, some players on the roster are going to have to be cut and I'm fine with that. I think we have a good selection to choose from.

Yep - were not going to be able to fall in love with all these guys we thought are turning out defense around, clearly they have not been enough - Folks like Beasley, Campbell, Poole, Reed, Shelby Mcclain, and possibly Alford - should be lots of turnover within that group if we have to start paying them, pretty sure Vic is out of here.  I really wanted him to be good but nobody got time for his blessings and bible study.  Ray Lewis was dead right on that boy.

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To me the only dead certs for next year are Mack Schwietzer and Matthews.

Fusco and Schraeder are what they are so there are opportunities to upgrade in these spots.

Problem being we aren't getting the talent everyone wants your looking mid tier again if your going FA.

RT I think you can draft how highly and how good well I for one just don't know.Its well documented how long and under developed these OTs are coming out.Its a lottery.

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Just now, Stray Dog THA GAWD said:

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It's well documented that rookies struggle.

You remember WillHernandez a lot were clamouring over this guy.You see how Grady Jarrett handled him?

Jake Conklin you see him the other day butt handed to him and that was the 8 th pick in the draft last year.

You still think drafting early is going to fix this problem?

They call it a lottery for a reason and drafting olineman early is exactly that.

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For sure not an easy fix. People on internet forums like to think they are smarter than GMs, but everyone in football knows the importance of the trenches, and that includes TD. Despite what people whine about on this forum fact is we have spent high draft picks and money in the o-line and it hasn't worked out the way we hoped. Fusco (relatively big FA signing) was a bust before he got injured, Levitre (who was great the first year he was brought in) hasn't been healthy, Schraeder (big money extension) got his money and stopped playing football, Mack (perhaps biggest FA signing in franchise history) is showing some signs of aging. Wes and Garland are good backups, but not great starters, though out of the two I think Garland has the potential to develop into a solid starter if we can put him next to a good RT, which is why if we can only upgrade one position next year on the o-line I think we need to replace Schraeder. 

It may not be an "easy" fix but I think getting back to top 10-15 range is doable if we can get a good RT. Top 10-15 is all we need to be for this offense to be top 3. 

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The rams have this problem 

 

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2018/4/4/17195894/los-angeles-rams-2019-free-agents-les-snead-kevin-demoff-tony-pastoors-todd-gurley-aaron-donald

If we could get Rodger Saffold - as well as pay Takk to Tonya harding a few Saints olinemen -that would be sweet - who knows what Panthers do with Daryl WIlliams or what hes going to be like, its a gamble on that one - 

 

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Me personally I think we need to address the offensive line in free agency the most, if we have the money to do so. If we get a guy like Greg Little or Jonah Williams in the first or second round I would be ok with that as well. We also need to address our lack of pass rush and our linebackers,  and with guys like Bosa, Devin White, Quinnen Willams, Derrick Brown, and Clelin Ferrell and others available it would be hard not to get one of them in the first round if they fall to us. They could be game changers for our defense. I am also not on board with picking offensive linemen in the late rounds. 

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14 minutes ago, Dr Long Shot said:

For sure not an easy fix. People on internet forums like to think they are smarter than GMs, but everyone in football knows the importance of the trenches, and that includes TD. Despite what people whine about on this forum fact is we have spent high draft picks and money in the o-line and it hasn't worked out the way we hoped. Fusco (relatively big FA signing) was a bust before he got injured, Levitre (who was great the first year he was brought in) hasn't been healthy, Schraeder (big money extension) got his money and stopped playing football, Mack (perhaps biggest FA signing in franchise history) is showing some signs of aging. Wes and Garland are good backups, but not great starters, though out of the two I think Garland has the potential to develop into a solid starter if we can put him next to a good RT, which is why if we can only upgrade one position next year on the o-line I think we need to replace Schraeder. 

It may not be an "easy" fix but I think getting back to top 10-15 range is doable if we can get a good RT. Top 10-15 is all we need to be for this offense to be top 3. 

Good post.

Only issue I have here is if a top tier DT is still there do you take the talent over the need because this is the quandary the FO faces.While it's clear we need to get better offensively upfront,what would you do draft need or take the talent?

 

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3 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Good post.

Only issue I have here is if a top tier DT is still there do you take the talent over the need because this is the quandary the FO faces.While it's clear we need to get better offensively upfront,what would you do draft need or take the talent?

 

I think there is potential for Senat and Grady to be a really nice combo going forward. I really think DE is the biggest need by far on defense, as we all know what Beasely is at this point and honestly Takk hasn't been all that great either.  It's tough to say what to prioritize but both D and O-line are big needs. I think you look at who the better player is and go with that. Equal talent though I think I would lean slightly towards getting the DE/DT... logic being even with a crappy o-line we are still top 10-ish on offense... absolutely can't say the same for the defense as is even if we had a full deck IMO.

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13 minutes ago, Dr Long Shot said:

I think there is potential for Senat and Grady to be a really nice combo going forward. I really think DE is the biggest need by far on defense, as we all know what Beasely is at this point and honestly Takk hasn't been all that great either.  It's tough to say what to prioritize but both D and O-line are big needs. I think you look at who the better player is and go with that. Equal talent though I think I would lean slightly towards getting the DE/DT... logic being even with a crappy o-line we are still top 10-ish on offense... absolutely can't say the same for the defense as is even if we had a full deck IMO.

I'm with you for me it's an easy decision I'd go 2013 again and double dip upfront on the defensive side of the ball.With Shelby Reed and McLain being expendable it's time to retool it and that's where I'd start.

KoG mentioned this about a month ago why not try Schraeder inside maybe.I want to see if Fusco has anything so I'd give him another year also.

Another I'm more interested in is seeing what's they do when all the injured get back who becomes expendable out of that group.

I think we can count on Debo Rico and Neal to be key in's,not sure if they trust Oliver enough to let Alford walk.

Free will also be back I think to many are sleeping on him he's still got something to offer I'd keep him aswell.

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Just now, DMT11 said:

Sucks but this is a problem the league has had for awhile.  Each year many GMs talk about the lack of developed olinemen coming into the league which is why a lot of them dont get chosen in first round because even though they have raw talent they still need to develope, because they are all used to the more simple offenses in college.  Jake took longer than expected, the Saints had to trade thier best weapon to get a center and keep drafting high and signing guys to put together a good line.  Just drafting some linemen in the first few rounds will not fix it for next year unfortunately.  We still need to draft them, but we are going to have to be aggressive in fixing it with established players because the drafted guys just arent ready as soon as they used to be, DIMI has talked about this in depth the last few drafts leading up to the Spring.  

We have so much invested in our offense we just cant split it up across the draft, we need to bring in established vets and keep drafting DEF guys - and let some go when they arent worth resigning, I really think thats the only way we realistically get back to contention in one year, and Im pretty sure they know this.  

If Shreader really is done, then we are gonna have to get 1 good tackle and 1 good guard min - in FA --- 

 

 

I disagree. 

Using the Saints as the example, they had their LT and C solidified with Armstead and Unger. This board was pounding the table for Larry Warford when he was coming out as one of the best OG prospects in a long time, so them signing Warford was highway robbery in my opinion because he should have never hit the market. Drafting Peat and Ramcyzk were just smart moves. Nothing they did was special

Right now, we are in the same boat. Matthews has taken that step to being a top tier LT. Mack is still a top five center in this league. We have no OGs and may need to replace Schraeder. We will have a good chunk of money to address both lines this offseason, as well as a full slate of picks (plus possibly a 4th comp pick for Poe). 

Who knows how much Schraeder's step back is because of the shaky OG play next to him or if he can slide inside to RG himself. He's not a bad player, just an inconsistent one at this point. In the draft, you have plenty of guys who can play LG and RG and step in day one. Guys like Chris Lindstrom and Dalton Risner could bolster our interior right away. Seriously. It's fixable this offseason because we don't have to prioritize a single skill position. Our defense gets a Pro Bowl MLB, Pro Bowl SS, and a dam good FS back, bolstering the middle of the defense. Our offense has more than enough weapons to score.  

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I dunno.

The Falcons drafted Matthews high.
Traded for Levitre
Paid a ton for Mack
Paid out for Fusco 
Paid Schrader after he had a great year.

They also traded for Sambrilio and drafted Schweitzer and re-signed Garland. 

It's not like they aren't trying to get guys through the draft or free agency. Not all of them are ever going to work, but in 2016 they were amazing. Being healthy and working well as a group are the key. If the team goes out and gets two highly paid guards and they both get hurt next year or don't pan out then what?
 

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2 hours ago, DMT11 said:

The rams have this problem 

 

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2018/4/4/17195894/los-angeles-rams-2019-free-agents-les-snead-kevin-demoff-tony-pastoors-todd-gurley-aaron-donald

If we could get Rodger Saffold - as well as pay Takk to Tonya harding a few Saints olinemen -that would be sweet - who knows what Panthers do with Daryl WIlliams or what hes going to be like, its a gamble on that one - 

 

Yes, the Rams have effectively screwed themselves for years just for this season, but it will all have been worth it if they beat the Saints in the play-offs. Of course my perspective is probably skewed.   :D

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4 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Yes, the Rams have effectively screwed themselves for years just for this season, but it will all have been worth it if they beat the Saints in the play-offs. Of course my perspective is probably skewed.   :D

Yes, perfectly skewed

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