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PFF: Vic Beasley ranks last among 106 edge defenders this season


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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Thomas had 105 combined tackles that year, he had 122 the year after with another historically good defense. Kazee is on pace for what, 80? 

Kinda blows your BS out of the water....once again. As I've said multiple times, in this scheme the FS is gonna make alot of ******* tackles, no matter how good or bad your defense is. And although being the last line of defense is an important part of what he does against the run, it isn't all he does.  

How much more of this can you stand, falcanuck? So look, I've wasted enough time with you, so just tootle along. Class dismissed. 

Lmao we went from "uhhhmmm hello who had the MOST tackles on the team huehuehue".... to, "ookay well he lotz of tackles"

Brother, I don't care about tackle totals. The tackle total hierarchy has always been LB > S > CB > DL in the NFL. And your Seahawks example, as well as your Falcons example, confirms this. Safeties, since they line up far off the ball, have plenty of opportunities to get involved in the run game and the pass game. 

HOWEVER, I have never once stated that Kazee never has to tackle in the run game. I have never mentioned once that a FS shouldn't have a high number of tackles. What I HAVE said plenty of times, is that if you're relying on your FS to be 'the guy' to stop ball carriers, you're probably being gashed anyway. I have said, in a perfect world, your front 7 would handle the run (it's not a perfect world). Watch some all-22. Kazee and Rico are single-high about 80% of the time. You can cherry pick plays and coverages where they are closer to the LOS all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that FS is a position that is concerned about the pass first almost always. Their first step is ALWAYS backwards, unless blitzing. 

Here is what you decided to not re-read for this entire pointless argument by the way: "Kazee is a FS. If RBs are consistently getting to the third level of our defence we have bigger problems."

This statement is irrefutable and none of the evidence you have provided has done anything to convince me otherwise. In every instance the FS will be the third wave of run support. You picked a fight for nothing and kept talking out your *** like the 60+ year old stubborn fart you are until your acer laptop you can barely operate ran out of juice.

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8 hours ago, Vandy said:

This team has never looked like what I thought we were getting with Quinn until last 1/4 of ‘16 regular season into the playoffs, ROH. During that stretch D was taking chances and being aggressive, blitzing the QB, playing more man-to-man, etc. Remember how rattled they made Rodgers/Wilson look in playoffs? And actually Did much the same to Brady too until running out of gas 4th qtr of SB. 

Then last year, we went back to playing that passive bend-don’t-beak nonsense (which @vel brought out last year in an excellent thread about it). So injuries aren’t the excuse why, we played that same gunk last year when D was healthy. 

I tried to sound the alarm early on. This defense has talent, but they have the wrong coordinator. It's frustrating to watch. The injuries just exposed the issue in my opinion. 

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Kazee could threaten the franchise record of 10 picks. He is seriously the only guy on the team getting turnovers. That is a real big problem, by the way. Why can't this team get takeaways?

If he leads the league in picks he is a lock for the pro bowl too, maybe all pro 2nd team.

They have to find a place for him but where?

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32 minutes ago, BayFalcon said:

Would you want to give up our 2nd or 3rd for him if the guy was playing this bad on another team?

Seems like there were several takers at the deadline, i just dont see him being able to win consistently as a 4-3 de,  BUT i could for sure see a 3-4 team be willing to give up a high pick for him. The 15.5 sack season will peak interest. 

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1 hour ago, thajames said:

Seems like there were several takers at the deadline, i just dont see him being able to win consistently as a 4-3 de,  BUT i could for sure see a 3-4 team be willing to give up a high pick for him. The 15.5 sack season will peak interest. 

It's not that he can't win...he actually wins a lot at the los....his first step can be among the very best to in the nfl and his first on the corner beats most tackles....but he tends to overshoot and he runs himself out of the play often, he also has not developed any sort of consistency with any counter move

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On 11/24/2018 at 0:25 PM, Jesus said:

Crawford and Senat have made up for the loss of Poe for sure. Clayborn had one good game last year. He was good depth, though. Heck this team went to the super bowl with their best player at the time, Trufant, on IR. 

What really disappointed me was that no one jumped into the leadership void left by Allen and Debo's injuries. What happened to Jarrett, Campbell or Rocky? The team just goes through the motion.

I said this in the games thread and it fits right here. I read a couple weeks ago where Eagles center Jason Kelce said that the reason the Eagles aren't nearly as good this year as last year is because they've got no accountability anymore. He said all the players glue players that held the team together by holding guys accountable are gone. Guys like Brent Celek and LeGarrette Blount. The Falcons have a clear lack of accountability. We don't have those "glue" guys that are needed. You can't force guys to become that, its either naturally ingrained in them or they just don't have it. The drive, the leadership to rally the troops. That's the reason for the Falcons roller coaster season. There's no one to stand up and take charge and make sure things get changed. There's no one to say "enough is enough, no more losing. No more playing like ****."

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11 hours ago, Vandy said:

This team has never looked like what I thought we were getting with Quinn until last 1/4 of ‘16 regular season into the playoffs, ROH. During that stretch D was taking chances and being aggressive, blitzing the QB, playing more man-to-man, etc. Remember how rattled they made Rodgers/Wilson look in playoffs? And actually Did much the same to Brady too until running out of gas 4th qtr of SB. 

Then last year, we went back to playing that passive bend-don’t-beak nonsense (which @vel brought out last year in an excellent thread about it). So injuries aren’t the excuse why, we played that same gunk last year when D was healthy. 

Yet in the last 5 or 6 games of 2017 including the playoffs they played that aggressive style shutdown defense that got them to the Super Bowl. I just don't understand why Quinn refuses to attack this year.

As for the tackling goes, it's been an issue every year under Quinn. I remember some idiot saying last year how the tackling had improved under Quinn and I wanted to slap him.

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3 hours ago, Jesus said:

Kazee could threaten the franchise record of 10 picks. He is seriously the only guy on the team getting turnovers. That is a real big problem, by the way. Why can't this team get takeaways?

If he leads the league in picks he is a lock for the pro bowl too, maybe all pro 2nd team.

They have to find a place for him but where?

10 picks, set by Scott Case early in his career when he was playing corner before moving to safety. Scott Case, one of many guys from his era and before that wouldn't be able to play in today's NFL because they'd be getting flagged and fined and suspended because of their hits.

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1 hour ago, falconsd56 said:

It's not that he can't win...he actually wins a lot at the los....his first step can be among the very best to in the nfl and his first on the corner beats most tackles....but he tends to overshoot and he runs himself out of the play often, he also has not developed any sort of consistency with any counter move

This right here!! Can't count how many times Vic beats his guy off the line only run 5 feet behind where the QB is and take himself completely out of the play. It's so freaking frustrating.

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Takk sisn't doing much either. Dumb defense. Easily fooled. QBs are getting rid of the ball withing 2-3 seconds. Secondary has to bump recievers at the line. Opposing NFL are not throwing deep balls on this defense.

I'd like to see Beasley in a 3-4 or some other scheme and coaching. He's probably just 240 lbs. tops.  You just don't surround a small DE like Beasley with other under-sized DTs and DEs who have little raw strength.

 

The Steelers Head Coach specializes in "The Tampa 2 Deep 4-3 scheme". Ownership forces him to use a 3-4 (that fits their legacy and players).

 

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7 hours ago, Jesus said:

Kazee could threaten the franchise record of 10 picks. He is seriously the only guy on the team getting turnovers. That is a real big problem, by the way. Why can't this team get takeaways?

If he leads the league in picks he is a lock for the pro bowl too, maybe all pro 2nd team.

They have to find a place for him but where?

I say free safety. Rico fully recovering from an Achilles injury is not a sure thing. If/when he does, I’d prefer Allen at NB anyway. 

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41 minutes ago, Lornoth said:

People don't want to let up on the Vic hate but... Sacks aren't just a DLine number. I think people are looking at the wrong positions.

I understand that we can say the sacks aren't happening because the pass coverage is subpar and that is valid. I also see our line get handled quite a bit, in 2016 when Vic had all the sacks it is said that he beat up on inferior competition, why is he or Takk not beating the inferior comp? Our inferior Oline players are getting destroyed by dl players that dont have what our guys have physically.....whats up with that?

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17 minutes ago, thajames said:

I understand that we can say the sacks aren't happening because the pass coverage is subpar and that is valid. I also see our line get handled quite a bit, in 2016 when Vic had all the sacks it is said that he beat up on inferior competition, why is he or Takk not beating the inferior comp? Our inferior Oline players are getting destroyed by dl players that dont have what our guys have physically.....whats up with that?

Even with less talent on the DL,  we were a much more aggressive defense in 2016 than this past year, especially in the latter part of that year. 

You could see it last year, that aggressiveness was gone on D. My theory is something happened to our coaching philosophically after SB loss. 

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3 hours ago, thajames said:

I understand that we can say the sacks aren't happening because the pass coverage is subpar and that is valid. I also see our line get handled quite a bit, in 2016 when Vic had all the sacks it is said that he beat up on inferior competition, why is he or Takk not beating the inferior comp? Our inferior Oline players are getting destroyed by dl players that dont have what our guys have physically.....whats up with that?

There's no time for anybody to make a play. Even when teams aren't getting rid of the ball fast (which is most of the time) they can consistently chip with RB's and TE's or leave them in to block, because they know they can beat up our coverage with only 4 or even 3 guys running routes. 

Also, it's hard to pin your ears back and passrush when you're getting smashed in the running game because nobody past our DLine can tackle. 

Obviously our passrushers aren't the best either, but they're not as bad as they've looked this year. I have a feelng securing our secondary will provide more passrush than another Dlineman would. 

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6 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

10 picks, set by Scott Case early in his career when he was playing corner before moving to safety. Scott Case, one of many guys from his era and before that wouldn't be able to play in today's NFL because they'd be getting flagged and fined and suspended because of their hits.

Like everyone he would have adjusted to the rules. It's funny that in preseason everyone thought Kazee was going to kill people every week but rather has been playing really clean.

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8 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

This right here!! Can't count how many times Vic beats his guy off the line only run 5 feet behind where the QB is and take himself completely out of the play. It's so freaking frustrating.

Part of that is not getting consistent push up the middle.

We don't do a good enough job of making qbs move off of their spot....more often they simply just step up before the outside edge can really get there

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