My observations from watching the game live

[kiwifalcon 19,713]

Just now, Vandy said:

Folks are spoiled. 

https://www.patriots.com/news/nfl-decade-standings-how-the-league-stacks-up-from-2010-2017

Falcons with 6th best record of decade coming into this season. 

Vandy it's the same win the big game screw the facts that's all it is.

Theres 2 ' in front of your face mentality from fans.

I see alot of new guys posting here just for the big complaining session.You watch when this rights itself you won't hear anything and all of a sudden they won't post.

[kiwifalcon 19,713]

5 hours ago, etherdome said:

People speak of Levitre like he is great. He is not.  He does a mediocre job of run blocking, which, to me is a primary function of an OG.  He is now older and has had two significant injuries. It is time to find a better LG.

Fusco was a bargain basement find.  He should be the primary back up OG, not a starter.  

We will not be able to build the OL in one off season, but there should be significant investment at the OG positions NOW.  We need two new OG's to bracket Mack.  Once we begin to run the ball well, then we can worry about finding Mack's successor and replacing Schraeder.  

Before anyone chimes in on how "great" our run game was with Freeman.  I am talking about successfully converting third and short and scoring from the 4-yard line.  Having that threat drastically changes the way a defense handles route coverages.  

We need an OL that can truly open lanes and protect our QB from the interior pass rush.  Coach Payton has figured it out, why can't our HC?   

Levitre isn't great by himself but he's great when he's playing in combination with Mack.Ill put money on it anytime or most times plays are called going those guys way the plays are executed ten fold better than what they are now.

Thats why I believe a guy like Levitre are a huge loss it's the combo and experience he and Mack have playing together.Small details don't get missed.

[Vandy 39,732]

3 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

Vandy it's the same win the big game screw the facts that's all it is.

Theres 2 ' in front of your face mentality from fans.

I see alot of new guys posting here just for the big complaining session.You watch when this rights itself you won't hear anything and all of a sudden they won't post.

Truth Kiwi. Or they’ll post acting like they were believers all along. We’ve seen a lot of that flip flopping go in here this season depending on if we win or lose.

This board is overrun with flappers.

[Vandy 39,732]

4 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Levitre isn't great by himself but he's great when he's playing in combination with Mack.Ill put money on it anytime or most times plays are called going those guys way the plays are executed ten fold better than what they are now.

Thats why I believe a guy like Levitre are a huge loss it's the combo and experience he and Mack have playing together.Small details don't get missed.

I think Andy’s toast. They restructured hoping to milk one more season out of him, but his body is obviously not gonna cooperate.

But to your point, he was sneaky good next to Mack when healthy.

[etherdome 6,475]

7 hours ago, quotemokc said:

Saints actually got Unger as part of the Jimmy Graham trade.

Thanks, I stand corrected

[I Even Bleed Red 2,845]

19 minutes ago, etherdome said:

Thanks, I stand corrected

To think we were glad when saints traded away Jimmy G. 

Guess I still am, I was sick of him against us at the goal line 

[Cheap Talk 1,231]

On 11/24/2018 at 9:52 AM, I Even Bleed Red said:

On some plays, he made amazing throws, splitting double coverage. On some plays he had receivers open down the field and he didn't even look their way. On some downs, he scrambled and did an amazing job extending plays down the field, then on some downs, he over threw wide open receivers. This is counting for the fact that he plays behind a bad OL that not only doesn't help him, but makes things worse for him! Even with that, on Thrus night, he was a weird, polarizing mix of elite vs pathetic on any given play and it's hard to know what you're getting that play or why. He's inconsistent and that's hard to win deep into playoffs with, imho.

Ryan is not inconsistent, and does not miss seeing open receivers or hitting them, unless its by design. All that needs to be said there.

[I Even Bleed Red 2,845]

6 minutes ago, Cheap Talk said:

Ryan is not inconsistent, and does not miss seeing open receivers or hitting them, unless its by design. All that needs to be said there.

Thurs night, from what I saw, inconsistent was the single most PERFECT word to describe him that night. I agree that he plays behind a pathetic OL but even then, thurs night, he was a weird mix of elite vs atrocious on any given play and I didn’t know which Ryan was showing up on that particular play or why. 

[FalconinPA 12,699]

8 minutes ago, I Even Bleed Red said:

Thurs night, from what I saw, inconsistent was the single most PERFECT word to describe him that night. I agree that he plays behind a pathetic OL but even then, thurs night, he was a weird mix of elite vs atrocious on any given play and I didn’t know which Ryan was showing up on that particular play or why. 

This

[Cheap Talk 1,231]

13 minutes ago, I Even Bleed Red said:

Thurs night, from what I saw, inconsistent was the single most PERFECT word to describe him that night. I agree that he plays behind a pathetic OL but even then, thurs night, he was a weird mix of elite vs atrocious on any given play and I didn’t know which Ryan was showing up on that particular play or why. 

I know, did not mean to insinuate there was a thing wrong with what you said, all good observations, and thank you for that.

My point is that Ryan works for the NFL, not the Atlanta Falcons, if you get my drift. Do not want to change the direction of this thread or the intent of what was to be discussed by the OP, so will not elaborate more. Nothing wrong with what you said, all good observations.

[TheUsualStuff 5,173]

22 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

That loss to the Browns broke this team.

It was an incredibly crucial game, but you all heard Campbell... the team went into the game overconfident to the point of not taking the opponent seriously. 

What kind of a team does that? 

One that isn't smart.

What kind of team lets that game break them?

One that is emotionally fragile.

So I guess we have a lot of emotionally immature dummies on our team. 

[Sun Tzu 7 13,951]

5 hours ago, Vandy said:

I think Andy’s toast. They restructured hoping to milk one more season out of him, but his body is obviously not gonna cooperate.

But to your point, he was sneaky good next to Mack when healthy.

Levitre’s done.

He couldn’t finish 2017 and played in one game in 2018.

Add in his cap hit and he’s done one way or the other

[fan since 1968 151]

9 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

What foundation flaws are you talking about ?

You do realise by building the Falcons the way they've been built the franchise has had its most successful run in its history right.You do realise over the last decade the Falcons are probably in that upper echelon of teams winning don't you.

All this build from the inside out is all well and good but if the talent isn't there you have to have a plan B and do I think a different way.

Olineman is of most of the positions is the biggest lottery there is to draft.So what do you do over draft or go for more proven talent in other positions.The Falcons have done the later and its led to the above mentioned.

 

I apologize in advance for the length of this post. It's a real tl;dr special, but you brought up some interesting points and I want to vomit up my thoughts.

How can a team exploit its talent if the part of the team that is always involved in every play? Ryan can't use his weapons if he's running for his life? How can our RBs make plays if they're constantly being hit at or behind the line?  How can the talents of Deion Jones be utilized if the line is being driven back? How can our secondary cover people if the QB has all day to throw? Is it simplistic and old-fashioned to believe in the importance of line play, and the need to prioritize it? Thursday nights game was a prime example of the importance of line play. We would have done much better if we were at full strength, but even at our best we could not match what New Orleans had.

You mentioned the fact that the last ten years have been the best in the Falcons' history. But there was another period that could have matched or exceeded that. In the late 1980s the Falcons built one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. They drafted Warren Bryant and R.C. Thielemann 1-2 in 1977. They drafted Mike Kenn, a should-be Hall of Fame tackle 1st in 1978. They used high picks on DLs Wilson Faumuina and Don Smith, who weren't great, but were contributors. The RBs were third rounder William Andrews and fourth rounder Lynn Cain, The WRs were ex-WFL star Alfred Jenkins, Buffalo castoff Wallace Francis, and seventh rounder Alfred Jackson. They didn't use a first rounder until 1980, when they drafted TE Junior Miller. The team rode its' young veterans and a strong rookie class to the best record in the league. They were bound for the Super Bowl but lost a late lead to Dallas, the worst moment in Falcon history before 2017. Even with the loss, the future was bright. A national magazine called the Falcons "The Team Of The Eighties". They fell victim to an injury to pass rusher Joel Williams and the advent of the 49ers in 1981, rhen were eliminated in the first round of the 1982 playoff tournament. After the season ended Rankin Smith fired coach Leeman Bennett and the team lost its' continuity and never recovered.

The point of this wall of text is to illustrate a time in Falcon history when they had a great deal of success from building inside-out. I'm sixty years old, maybe I'm blinded by fossilized and simplistic thinking, but I still believe in the fundamental importance of line play. I respect yout thoughts, but I still believe that we haven't taken enough active measures to improve our offensive line. If it's deemed to risky to use a high pick on an OL then we need to think about trading picks for young veterans with potential, and to be financially the next time a Kevin Zeitler enters free agency. We need to stop paying money for average players on the downside of their careers.

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by fan since 1968

[fan since 1968 151]

9 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

Vandy it's the same win the big game screw the facts that's all it is.

Theres 2 ' in front of your face mentality from fans.

I see alot of new guys posting here just for the big complaining session.You watch when this rights itself you won't hear anything and all of a sudden they won't post.

Actually, I've been an AFMB member since the days of Dan Reeves. I just hardly ever post until something rouses me out of my stupor.

[fan since 1968 151]

9 hours ago, Vandy said:

Truth Kiwi. Or they’ll post acting like they were believers all along. We’ve seen a lot of that flip flopping go in here this season depending on if we win or lose.

This board is overrun with flappers.

Flapper? I may be a cockroach but I will never flap! Seriously, I have my ideas but I will be thrilled to be proved wrong by the Falcons, should they persist in doing things I may not agree with. My ego means nothing, The success of the team means everything,

[shc 2,276]

I love all the lets trade Julio for a ton of draft picks and then with the TD can't draft for sh*t

[celtiksage 2,682]

34 minutes ago, fan since 1968 said:

I apologize in advance for the length of this post. It's a real tl;dr special, but you brought up some interesting points and I want to vomit up my thoughts.

How can a team exploit its talent if the part of the team that is always involved in every play? Ryan can't use his weapons if he's running for his life? How can our RBs make plays if they're constantly being hit at or behind the line?  How can the talents of Deion Jones be utilized if the line is being driven back? How can our secondary cover people if the QB has all day to throw? Is it simplistic and old-fashioned to believe in the importance of line play, and the need to prioritize it? Thursday nights game was a prime example of the importance of line play. We would have done much better if we were at full strength, but even at our best we could not match what New Orleans had.

You mentioned the fact that the last ten years have been the best in the Falcons' history. But there was another period that could have matched or exceeded that. In the late 1980s the Falcons built one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. They drafted Warren Bryant and R.C. Thielemann 1-2 in 1977. They drafted Mike Kenn, a should-be Hall of Fame tackle 1st in 1978. They used high picks on DLs Wilson Faumuina and Don Smith, who weren't great, but were contributors. The RBs were third rounder William Andrews and fourth rounder Lynn Cain, The WRs were ex-WFL star Alfred Jenkins, Buffalo castoff Wallace Francis, and seventh rounder Alfred Jackson. They didn't use a first rounder until 1980, when they drafted TE Junior Miller. The team rode its' young veterans and a strong rookie class to the best record in the league. They were bound for the Super Bowl but lost a late lead to Dallas, the worst moment in Falcon history before 2017. Even with the loss, the future was bright. A national magazine called the Falcons "The Team Of The Eighties". They fell victim to an injury to pass rusher Joel Williams and the advent of the 49ers in 1981, rhen were eliminated in the first round of the 1982 playoff tournament. After the season ended Rankin Smith fired coach Leeman Bennett and the team lost its' continuity and never recovered.

The point of this wall of text is to illustrate a time in Falcon history when they had a great deal of success from building inside-out. I'm sixty years old, maybe I'm blinded by fossilized and simplistic thinking, but I still believe in the fundamental importance of line play. I respect yout thoughts, but I still believe that we haven't taken enough active measures to improve our offensive line. If it's deemed to risky to use a high pick on an OL then we need to think about trading picks for young veterans with potential, and to be financially the next time a Kevin Zeitler enters free agency. We need to stop paying money for average players on the downside of their careers.

 

Great observations FS68.

I'm hoping we invest in the trenches this offseason and the draft. A lot of posters brought it up in the offseason when we lost so many DLmen, and didn't replace them with the same caliber players.

The DL is stacked in the draft this year, but unfortunately, I've been watching a lot of game highlights on the OL, and there might only be one, Jonah Williams, that is actually 1st round caliber. He should still be an option when we pick, but the draft is going to be so starved for OL talent that someone could grab him earlier than expected.

But I agree, let's start in the trenches where the game is determined.

[kiwifalcon 19,713]

1 hour ago, fan since 1968 said:

Actually, I've been an AFMB member since the days of Dan Reeves. I just hardly ever post until something rouses me out of my stupor.

Appreciate your point of view and I didn't want to quote your whole post..

Fundamentally your point of view has merit.The issue is the oline talent coming out isn't what it was back in the days you are explaining.

I actually red an article Mike Kenn wrote describing how different he played vs what these guys get taught to do now.

With the way the game is now it's all about matchups and spreading teams out.

[shc 2,276]

44 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Appreciate your point of view and I didn't want to quote your whole post..

Fundamentally your point of view has merit.The issue is the oline talent coming out isn't what it was back in the days you are explaining.

I actually red an article Mike Kenn wrote describing how different he played vs what these guys get taught to do now.

With the way the game is now it's all about matchups and spreading teams out.

We need to bring back Mike Tice as the O Line coach

[VTCrunkler 9,388]

22 hours ago, SaintRay said:

The Falcons are loaded at skill positions. Unfortunately for Falcon fans they have minimized the impact of a serious Oline and what that means to a franchise. The big uglies quietly win games.

and we havent even fully utilized Hoop like we should either

[SaintRay 4,660]

34 minutes ago, VTCrunkler said:

and we havent even fully utilized Hoop like we should either

Can Hoop play RT or RG?

If not, I think you missed the point.

[Geneaut 7,131]

9 hours ago, shc said:

We need to bring back Mike Tice as the O Line coach

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/2/5/16977354/mike-tice-retire-from-coaching-players-dont-want-to-be-coached

Mike Tice to retire from coaching because “players don’t want to be coached”

[etherdome 6,475]

11 hours ago, fan since 1968 said:

I apologize in advance for the length of this post. It's a real tl;dr special, but you brought up some interesting points and I want to vomit up my thoughts.

How can a team exploit its talent if the part of the team that is always involved in every play? Ryan can't use his weapons if he's running for his life? How can our RBs make plays if they're constantly being hit at or behind the line?  How can the talents of Deion Jones be utilized if the line is being driven back? How can our secondary cover people if the QB has all day to throw? Is it simplistic and old-fashioned to believe in the importance of line play, and the need to prioritize it? Thursday nights game was a prime example of the importance of line play. We would have done much better if we were at full strength, but even at our best we could not match what New Orleans had.

You mentioned the fact that the last ten years have been the best in the Falcons' history. But there was another period that could have matched or exceeded that. In the late 1980s the Falcons built one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. They drafted Warren Bryant and R.C. Thielemann 1-2 in 1977. They drafted Mike Kenn, a should-be Hall of Fame tackle 1st in 1978. They used high picks on DLs Wilson Faumuina and Don Smith, who weren't great, but were contributors. The RBs were third rounder William Andrews and fourth rounder Lynn Cain, The WRs were ex-WFL star Alfred Jenkins, Buffalo castoff Wallace Francis, and seventh rounder Alfred Jackson. They didn't use a first rounder until 1980, when they drafted TE Junior Miller. The team rode its' young veterans and a strong rookie class to the best record in the league. They were bound for the Super Bowl but lost a late lead to Dallas, the worst moment in Falcon history before 2017. Even with the loss, the future was bright. A national magazine called the Falcons "The Team Of The Eighties". They fell victim to an injury to pass rusher Joel Williams and the advent of the 49ers in 1981, rhen were eliminated in the first round of the 1982 playoff tournament. After the season ended Rankin Smith fired coach Leeman Bennett and the team lost its' continuity and never recovered.

The point of this wall of text is to illustrate a time in Falcon history when they had a great deal of success from building inside-out. I'm sixty years old, maybe I'm blinded by fossilized and simplistic thinking, but I still believe in the fundamental importance of line play. I respect yout thoughts, but I still believe that we haven't taken enough active measures to improve our offensive line. If it's deemed to risky to use a high pick on an OL then we need to think about trading picks for young veterans with potential, and to be financially the next time a Kevin Zeitler enters free agency. We need to stop paying money for average players on the downside of their careers.

 

Well said.  I could not agree more.