TRUju2111

5 baffling decisions that lead to Cowboys victory

85 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, Vandy said:

The play of the defense all year is what makes the time outs/clock management of the head coach all the more baffling. 

When you lose close games, the game management becomes important. Hopefully DQ will learn clock management with this experience. 

Vandy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

When you lose close games, the game management becomes important. Hopefully DQ will learn clock management with this experience. 

He apparently hasn’t learned in 4 years, my man. If anything, he’s gotten worse. 

AB needs to hire him some analytics geek hooked in from India or China to make those mathematically correct calls. :ninja:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Vandy said:

He apparently hasn’t learned in 4 years, my man. If anything, he’s gotten worse. 

He should have after SB. Anyways, I think next year will be similar to 2016 off season with lot of heat and criticism. I hope he does, would hate to see Prime of Julio and Ryan’s career wasted.

robertap, PokerSteve and Vandy like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

When you lose close games, the game management becomes important. Hopefully DQ will learn clock management with this experience. 

If he hasn't learned by now, you can forget about hoping.

PokerSteve likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not calling for his head like a lot of people, but, and it hurts to say this, I think Mike Smith was a better game day coach.

Not going for the field goad from the 37 still makes me question if he is really aware of what is going on during the game. Same for the Superbowl fiasco.

From Q's first game, I've been puzzled with his decisions to go for 4th downs and his timeout use. Plus, his insistence on using that awful prevent defense once he gets a lead has never agreed with my personal 'go hard or go home' mentality.

Edited by Emmitt
PokerSteve and Flying Falcon like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am one of Dan's Quinn's biggest fans and biggest defenders, but those two timeout calls were bad decisions.  That kicker was shaky and if Dallas wants to settle for a 45 yard attempt, have to let them.

The same kick he made looks to me like it would have missed from 45.

The only way the timeouts would have made sense is if they had all 3 of them and could have left some time on the clock.

Dr Long Shot, JeffAtl and robertap like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if anything you hold on to your timeouts in case there is sufficient time for us to go down and try to tie... OR.. you try to ice the kicker if DAL has burned thru the clock.

either way, calling with 95 seconds left was STUPID!!!!

PokerSteve, Flying Falcon and Vandy like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, celtiksage said:

This article is a bit of a reach. It was 3rd and 5 with a minute and a half in a tied ball game. You call a timeout and your D has to make one stop. You get the ball back and have plenty of time for MR to get into FG range. Or we go three and out as the clock expires.

90% of NFL kickers are going to make a 46 yard FG. DQ had to burn the timeouts and try to get the ball back into Ryan's hands with some time on the clock once Dallas got inside our 35. Unfortunately, the D wasn't able to make the required stop previously, so we were one TO short of what was needed to keep 30 seconds on the clock for MR to tie it up. I would assume that the FG is going to be good and try to do what I could and not let them run it down to the last second. I believe we're winless when we let teams burn up the clock on their final drives this year.

I'm not bothered by the attempt. Still, game management even outside the last minute and a half of the game seems mishandled.

Again, how can you guys be saying that? Quinn basically gave them 3 free plays by calling time outs, at the very least make them use their own TO.

Dallas's kicker is a below average kicker. Did you even see the kick? He just barely made it, those last 4 yards they made running the ball were the difference. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maher's kick was hooking right the whole time and barely made it inside the right upright. Had he been five more yards out that same kick would have definitely been no good lol. Of course there is absolutely 0 guarantee he would have kicked it the same way, but all in all those five yards are actually pretty **** valuable. Much more valuable than praying the Cowboys somehow fumble which is the only thing you can be banking on by calling timeouts in that situation.

Flying Falcon, Vandy and PokerSteve like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, falcons007 said:

Your OC loves empty backfield sets at goal line. Hard to blame run game when it is not even an option. Falcons had good run game in short yardage situation from 2016.

You clearly didn't understand  what i posted. I was referring to our team being ran over by physical teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

I get the point. I just feel like regardless of coming off a TO or not Quinn either knew his D needed a one chance to stop them play on that initial 3rd down and/or wanted the opportunity to regain control instead of letting Garrett dictate to him.

After meditating on that perspective and it not working it’s easy to say it was the wrong move. I think it was not optimal the timeouts. Yes.

I still think the story stretches it further than that. If you say he shouldn’t have called any TOs and Dal takes their timeouts instead how do we know it doesn’t go back in our favor?

So Quinn has happy feet and is a bit too motivational with his TOs than strategic? Ok if we are just analyzing the TOs only I get it. Not optimal. Still DAL had all 3 to start the drive and could control their own fate. They had the ball and the game in their hands.

Maybe never call the 1st TO unless they don’t make it on the 3rd down in question.

I still am just disgusted by our play to even be in that situation that it’s hard for me to see those calls as being more meaningful. Marginally impactful at best, but they weren’t why we lost. Despite being suboptimal in usage.

Yes, Dallas had all their time-outs and they had the ball. Quinn's stupid TO calls would not be all that big of a deal, except it's just another example of head-scratching time-outs and dubious in-game coaching decisions that have exposed Quinn as completely clueless on how to handle time outs ~ or any other critical decision late in the game.

Flying Falcon, Ergo Proxy and Vandy like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Yes, Dallas had all their time-outs and they had the ball. Quinn's stupid TO calls would not be all that big of a deal, except it's just another example of head-scratching time-outs and dubious in-game coaching decisions that have exposed Quinn as completely clueless on how to handle time outs ~ or any other critical decision late in the game.

Yeah, I concede Quinn was doing posturing with the initial TO on 3rd. Maybe that’s the only way he thinks his D might rise to the occasion is if he gets a TO, gets the right call and hopes his players see he is believing in them? Yeah the technical right move is to wait until the stop to use your own TOs but at the same time Dal can control the clock with all 3 at the time of that one.

I basically stopped caring about time management seeing as how Dallas got the first since they could control their fate.

Its possible DAL settles and doesn’t try to get those 4 yards closer. They had the TO to try if they wanted but Quinn was in perma call TO mode.

Heck, maybe he was trying to bait Dal into throwing and being risky with a stopped clock shot down the field?

Idk. I just believe it really didn’t matter and just reframing that kick as 4 yards further doesn’t mean the K kicks it the same way.

I just want a freaking pass rush to show up on a pivotal drive.

PokerSteve likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vandy said:

Again, how can you guys be saying that? Quinn basically gave them 3 free plays by calling time outs, at the very least make them use their own TO.

Dallas's kicker is a below average kicker. Did you even see the kick? He just barely made it, those last 4 yards they made running the ball were the difference. 

Y'all are nuts. Dude made a boatload of kicks without a miss up to week 7. He missed one in his first game, and had a lot over 45 yards. It's really cherry picking to think he's not going to make a 42 harder, a 46 yarder or even a 50+yarder in the dome, especially in hindsight. He already has made many 45+ yarders. The time out that's a head scratcher was the first one at 1:30 or so. 4 yards wouldn't have moved that kick another 6" or more to the left. And who cares. Regardless, after they crossed into FG range, we weren't winning that one anyway. All they had to do was take a knee until the time was gone off the clock. But the first TO before they converted 3rd and 5 was the key. After that, the other 2 TOs were irrelevant. 

We all know DQ isn't the game manager mastermind, but there are a lot better examples than 2 pointless timeouts. Everyone's just reaching for stuff to complain about when really, this D sucks. No one on the DL or at LBer big enough to bring down a power RB who can almost fall forward for 4 and 5 yards a carry.

I just think this example, when there are so many others is one of the weaker ones.

Ergo Proxy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, celtiksage said:

Y'all are nuts. Dude made a boatload of kicks without a miss up to week 7. He missed one in his first game, and had a lot over 45 yards. It's really cherry picking to think he's not going to make a 42 harder, a 46 yarder or even a 50+yarder in the dome, especially in hindsight. He already has made many 45+ yarders. The time out that's a head scratcher was the first one at 1:30 or so. 4 yards wouldn't have moved that kick another 6" or more to the left. And who cares. Regardless, after they crossed into FG range, we weren't winning that one anyway. All they had to do was take a knee until the time was gone off the clock. But the first TO before they converted 3rd and 5 was the key. After that, the other 2 TOs were irrelevant. 

We all know DQ isn't the game manager mastermind, but there are a lot better examples than 2 pointless timeouts. Everyone's just reaching for stuff to complain about when really, this D sucks. No one on the DL or at LBer big enough to bring down a power RB who can almost fall forward for 4 and 5 yards a carry.

I just think this example, when there are so many others is one of the weaker ones.

The 3rd and 5 timeout is the big head scratcher for sure. Even if it worked out there was plenty of time left without doing that. If you make a call like that you better be **** sure your defense is going to get the job done. Given their track record that was a dumb decision. On top of that the play call for the defense was even dumber. 

Vandy, PokerSteve and Flying Falcon like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, celtiksage said:

Y'all are nuts. Dude made a boatload of kicks without a miss up to week 7. He missed one in his first game, and had a lot over 45 yards. It's really cherry picking to think he's not going to make a 42 harder, a 46 yarder or even a 50+yarder in the dome, especially in hindsight. He already has made many 45+ yarders. The time out that's a head scratcher was the first one at 1:30 or so. 4 yards wouldn't have moved that kick another 6" or more to the left. And who cares. Regardless, after they crossed into FG range, we weren't winning that one anyway. All they had to do was take a knee until the time was gone off the clock. But the first TO before they converted 3rd and 5 was the key. After that, the other 2 TOs were irrelevant. 

We all know DQ isn't the game manager mastermind, but there are a lot better examples than 2 pointless timeouts. Everyone's just reaching for stuff to complain about when really, this D sucks. No one on the DL or at LBer big enough to bring down a power RB who can almost fall forward for 4 and 5 yards a carry.

I just think this example, when there are so many others is one of the weaker ones.

Of course there are so many worse calls to pick from. That's the problem. 

PokerSteve and Vandy like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Falcons_Frenzy said:

The 3rd and 5 timeout is the big head scratcher for sure. Even if it worked out there was plenty of time left without doing that. If you make a call like that you better be **** sure your defense is going to get the job done. Given their track record that was a dumb decision. On top of that the play call for the defense was even dumber. 

Agree. The last one was just a blunder, but 3rd and 5 was strategically very poor, and what I believe cost us the game. And this was his second (or maybe third) time doing that this season.

Apart from the fact that it was poor clock management, it also disrupts the rhythm for the defense. Quinn seems to disregard the fact that a timeout gives the offense a chance to reset and operate with less pressure. The defense had two decent downs, let them just ride their momentum, why would you give the offense the time to regroup?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The timeouts, if anything, allowed Dallas to not have to even think. Force them to use theirs. Force them to consider their options. Ice the kicker with yours. It just didn’t make sense to allow Dallas to gather their thoughts for free. 

Also, no, Dallas was never going to use a timeout there. Doing so would have allowed the Falcons to use theirs immediately after and leave time on the clock. 

Vandy and Flying Falcon like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, sdogg said:

He's not a very bright coach. He's all rah rah. 

The problem is I don’t even get his Rah Rah... just a bunch of positive bs. Not my type of person coach. If a player messes up or makes a bonehead mistake. They need addressed not their hand held and talk about what the did they was positive 

PokerSteve, Flying Falcon and sdogg like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, celtiksage said:

This article is a bit of a reach. It was 3rd and 5 with a minute and a half in a tied ball game. You call a timeout and your D has to make one stop. You get the ball back and have plenty of time for MR to get into FG range. Or we go three and out as the clock expires.

90% of NFL kickers are going to make a 46 yard FG. DQ had to burn the timeouts and try to get the ball back into Ryan's hands with some time on the clock once Dallas got inside our 35. Unfortunately, the D wasn't able to make the required stop previously, so we were one TO short of what was needed to keep 30 seconds on the clock for MR to tie it up. I would assume that the FG is going to be good and try to do what I could and not let them run it down to the last second. I believe we're winless when we let teams burn up the clock on their final drives this year.

I'm not bothered by the attempt. Still, game management even outside the last minute and a half of the game seems mishandled.

Here is my issue with the first time out. If you want to be aggressive and try to get the ball back with time on the clock, why do we rush 3 after calling the time out? That is the definition of passive and my issue with Quinn. It’s like he is lost on when to be aggressive and when to be conservative.

Bring some pressure and force Dak to make a decision.

Vandy, Flying Falcon and Ergo Proxy like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, celtiksage said:

Y'all are nuts. Dude made a boatload of kicks without a miss up to week 7. He missed one in his first game, and had a lot over 45 yards. It's really cherry picking to think he's not going to make a 42 harder, a 46 yarder or even a 50+yarder in the dome, especially in hindsight. He already has made many 45+ yarders. The time out that's a head scratcher was the first one at 1:30 or so. 4 yards wouldn't have moved that kick another 6" or more to the left. And who cares. Regardless, after they crossed into FG range, we weren't winning that one anyway. All they had to do was take a knee until the time was gone off the clock. But the first TO before they converted 3rd and 5 was the key. After that, the other 2 TOs were irrelevant. 

We all know DQ isn't the game manager mastermind, but there are a lot better examples than 2 pointless timeouts. Everyone's just reaching for stuff to complain about when really, this D sucks. No one on the DL or at LBer big enough to bring down a power RB who can almost fall forward for 4 and 5 yards a carry.

I just think this example, when there are so many others is one of the weaker ones.

Kick barely made it over the goal posts.....that extra 4 yards made a difference. 

But again, big picture it doesn’t matter to me whether he would have made the kick on not. it’s more insight into how our HC is misjudging down to wire game situations. 

Flying Falcon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Falcanuck said:

The timeouts, if anything, allowed Dallas to not have to even think. Force them to use theirs. Force them to consider their options. Ice the kicker with yours. It just didn’t make sense to allow Dallas to gather their thoughts for free. 

Also, no, Dallas was never going to use a timeout there. Doing so would have allowed the Falcons to use theirs immediately after and leave time on the clock. 

Bingo. 

Flying Falcon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Of course there are so many worse calls to pick from. That's the problem. 

Yeah. That's all I'm saying. The sad thing is, when we hired DQ, I felt like he wasn't the brightest football guy. I was just hoping his D philosophy would be the turning point. But, it seems now that he might still be a coach that can teach guys up, but when it's crunch time, and we need a coach with an objective clever strategy, or even just one play, it's never there. This team will always have to be more talented than the opponent to win under DQ, IMHO.

Vandy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jpg428gggg said:

Here is my issue with the first time out. If you want to be aggressive and try to get the ball back with time on the clock, why do we rush 3 after calling the time out? That is the definition of passive and my issue with Quinn. It’s like he is lost on when to be aggressive and when to be conservative.

Bring some pressure and force Dak to make a decision.

Now that I agree with.

It's sorta scatter brained and panicky. Admittedly. Too much posturing. Get the right play when they probably are passing. It's fine if this was 2016/2017 Alford, etc. We just ain't the pass rush the Seahawks had for Quinn, let alone no one is the Sherman caliber CB.

Vandy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jpg428gggg said:

Here is my issue with the first time out. If you want to be aggressive and try to get the ball back with time on the clock, why do we rush 3 after calling the time out? That is the definition of passive and my issue with Quinn. It’s like he is lost on when to be aggressive and when to be conservative.

Bring some pressure and force Dak to make a decision.

You are spot on with that observation. How many times do we get into a 4th down play in the final minute of a game, and you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that we are about to be bumrushed like nobody's business? And then it happens and MR has no time to throw a pass endzone deep or gets sacked? 

Well when it's us, BAM!!! Their QB has all day. And in Sunday's scenario, you know you have a sketchy QB who doesn't make the best decisions under pressure and you just play right into his hands. Mind boggling, and that is a great example of poor coaching and in game decisions.

Vandy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now