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Ergo Proxy

About those toss sweeps...and a note on Ryan

32 posts in this topic

Man, Sark was simply genius. He said “Julio wants a screen? Well, then I’ll use this” :wiggle:

Washington overplays the toss!!! Lol!

Can you argue with Julio getting his 1st TD on them overplaying our patented “toss for a loss” sweep?:lol:

:tiphat:

Another tweet on Ryan working with Knapp as the QB coach this year:

5888817aa659b_itstime.thumb.jpg.316754c7326dc06d2ac64cd06a9ca0d1.jpg^Gritz cred 

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Just now, Ergo Proxy said:

:ninja:Isn’t it great when your QB tries?:ninja:

Yea and i do think Knapp suffered with having Vick as his QB. Now he has a good one finally, and i understand after 10 years that you can only coach players that want to be coached. Vick was never one of those players. Vick was always 1 read then Run type of QB. Ryan processes everything so fast he can make 4 reads in 4 seconds

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27 minutes ago, The Falcon Jedi Knight said:

Yea and i do think Knapp suffered with having Vick as his QB. Now he has a good one finally, and i understand after 10 years that you can only coach players that want to be coached. Vick was never one of those players. Vick was always 1 read then Run type of QB. Ryan processes everything so fast he can make 4 reads in 4 seconds

from what I've read though, that's exactly what what Mora Jr told him to do though, and you can't deny it was exciting to watch

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20 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

I still think its been a net negative in the time Sark has been here but its nice that it brought SOMETHING of value. 

Larry please elaborate....

 

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9 minutes ago, Atl Falcon said:

Larry please elaborate....

 

That toss play routinely loses huge chunks of yards. The majority of the time we run it, it goes nowhere. Right now, we're 26th in the league in terms of runs to the left end and 25th to the right. Last year we were 12th to the left, 21st to the right. Unfortunately, I can't drill down on variations of that play specifically so "end runs" also include jet sweeps, reverses, and long outside zone plays. But anecdotally, it seems that 4 of 5 times we call it, it gets blown up usually resulting in a loss of yardage. 

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2 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

That toss play routinely loses huge chunks of yards. The majority of the time we run it, it goes nowhere. Right now, we're 26th in the league in terms of runs to the left end and 25th to the right. Last year we were 12th to the left, 21st to the right. Unfortunately, I can't drill down on variations of that play specifically so "end runs" also include jet sweeps, reverses, and long outside zone plays. But anecdotally, it seems that 4 of 5 times we call it, it gets blown up usually resulting in a loss of yardage. 

Im actually going to agree with you for once. Whenever i see that toss sweep play I  cringe. We always lose 2 yards.

We are better running between the tackles. The problem is that toss sweep takes so long to get the RB to the edge and defenders are too quick to pursue it

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2 hours ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

That toss play routinely loses huge chunks of yards. The majority of the time we run it, it goes nowhere. Right now, we're 26th in the league in terms of runs to the left end and 25th to the right. Last year we were 12th to the left, 21st to the right. Unfortunately, I can't drill down on variations of that play specifically so "end runs" also include jet sweeps, reverses, and long outside zone plays. But anecdotally, it seems that 4 of 5 times we call it, it gets blown up usually resulting in a loss of yardage. 

It seemed to be effective when Shanahan was OC. 

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3 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

:ninja:Isn’t it great when your QB tries?:ninja:

This, and Sark deserves all the credit he's getting for play calling this season.. But imo without Knapp we wouldn't be where we are now 

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4 hours ago, ⚡Slumerican⚡ said:

This, and Sark deserves all the credit he's getting for play calling this season.. But imo without Knapp we wouldn't be where we are now 

Kyle Shanahan didn’t do it by himself either. Sark was being asked to do more than Kyle with worse support staff. This is a common sense fact.

7 hours ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

I still think its been a net negative in the time Sark has been here but its nice that it brought SOMETHING of value. 

Yeah this thread was meant as mostly tongue in cheek. Irony.

6 hours ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

That toss play routinely loses huge chunks of yards. The majority of the time we run it, it goes nowhere. Right now, we're 26th in the league in terms of runs to the left end and 25th to the right. Last year we were 12th to the left, 21st to the right. Unfortunately, I can't drill down on variations of that play specifically so "end runs" also include jet sweeps, reverses, and long outside zone plays. But anecdotally, it seems that 4 of 5 times we call it, it gets blown up usually resulting in a loss of yardage. 

I think Levitre being hurt is really hampering us. Also, Freeman helped our efficiency by getting more with less than other RBs. Him being out hurts and right side of the line has indeed been worse since 2016.

Wes was such a drop off front Chester and now Andy. At least in terms of consistency, which is the whole point. Chester was a really solid run blocker for us. Without him Schraeder has looked worse. Wes simply isn’t great at any one thing. Andy was solid in both run/pass. 

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I'll  say it again man it's the combination that hurts us.

If you think 2016 the Mack Chester Levitre combo played all 16 games and playoffs thats really key for consistency and being able to establish rhythm.

If you look at 2017 and 2018 the mix and match we've had on that offensive interior of the line explains alot why there's been so much up n down.Getting used to new combinations and rookie and new players working there way in.

Thats the big reason why the oline play has been so inconsistent in patches and good in others.

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10 hours ago, The Falcon Jedi Knight said:

Yea and i do think Knapp suffered with having Vick as his QB. Now he has a good one finally, and i understand after 10 years that you can only coach players that want to be coached. Vick was never one of those players. Vick was always 1 read then Run type of QB. Ryan processes everything so fast he can make 4 reads in 4 seconds

Tbh I think the problem with Knapp was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. He tried to force the west coast onto Vick which requires timing and accuracy (cmon really hardly Vick’s Strengths). Great coordinators - like Shanagan - can make a pocket passing QB (like Ryan) or a qb scrambling athlete (like Washington Griffin) look like pro bowlers. Honestly there are not many cordinstors who can truely adapt and effectively implement playbooks for different qbs. 

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4 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

I'll  say it again man it's the combination that hurts us.

If you think 2016 the Mack Chester Levitre combo played all 16 games and playoffs thats really key for consistency and being able to establish rhythm.

If you look at 2017 and 2018 the mix and match we've had on that offensive interior of the line explains alot why there's been so much up n down.Getting used to new combinations and rookie and new players working there way in.

Thats the big reason why the oline play has been so inconsistent in patches and good in others.

Pretty much and Tevin lacking some vision made it all worse. At least he can get hot with more reps and Ito can contribute more than Ward, seemingly. Otherwise, ya it’s pretty much been the OG plus RS regression.

At least Jake and Mack hold it down while the other guys can step up more like in WAS game.

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5 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Pretty much and Tevin lacking some vision made it all worse. At least he can get hot with more reps and Ito can contribute more than Ward, seemingly. Otherwise, ya it’s pretty much been the OG plus RS regression.

At least Jake and Mack hold it down while the other guys can step up more like in WAS game.

It's like everything man it's just time and how quickly guys can acclimate and take there opportunities.Schraeders struggles will have something to do with playing next to 3 new guy's in the last 2 seasons you can put money on it.

When he was next to Chester Schrader was all pro I ask myself why that was and alot will have to do with comfort experience and consistency.Hes also had concussion and injury issues he's had to battle back from but I think moreso it's the chopping and changing of guys inside him that's had a hand in his inconsistent play.

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19 hours ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

That toss play routinely loses huge chunks of yards. The majority of the time we run it, it goes nowhere. Right now, we're 26th in the league in terms of runs to the left end and 25th to the right. Last year we were 12th to the left, 21st to the right. Unfortunately, I can't drill down on variations of that play specifically so "end runs" also include jet sweeps, reverses, and long outside zone plays. But anecdotally, it seems that 4 of 5 times we call it, it gets blown up usually resulting in a loss of yardage. 

Well said Amigo......well said…...

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17 hours ago, likeriver said:

Greg Knapp squeezing the fullest potential out of Marty Ice

No question…..Greg Knapp has been a difference maker in year ONE on the job.  He don't need a year one pass….just comes in and gets it done!

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9 hours ago, primetime said:

Tbh I think the problem with Knapp was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. He tried to force the west coast onto Vick which requires timing and accuracy (cmon really hardly Vick’s Strengths). Great coordinators - like Shanagan - can make a pocket passing QB (like Ryan) or a qb scrambling athlete (like Washington Griffin) look like pro bowlers. Honestly there are not many cordinstors who can truely adapt and effectively implement playbooks for different qbs. 

To that point….Mullens played spread in college so Shanny kept him in the gun most of the night in his debut. Shanny is an evil genius when he wants to be.

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21 hours ago, The Falcon Jedi Knight said:

I used to hate Greg Knapp when he was here. But I love him back now as a QB coach.

Me too. He’s fine as a QB coach though. I don’t want him as my OC though. 

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7 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

............... Tevin lacking some vision made it all worse. ..................

.......................

NO, NO, NO!  I hate to seem as if I'm a Coleman defender (to a certain degree I am, as with all RBs only because I was a RB at one point in time), but I take issue with people consistently saying this!  Coleman DID NOT make it to the NFL "lacking vision!"  The knock on Coleman (if this is truly a knock) is the same as it has always been, it's his style of running!  Coleman "commits" to his cuts with that hard plant he has, and he can't neccesarily "recommit" and cut back when something opens on the backside (due to that hard *** plant and not picking up his feet quicker)!  His vision is fine, Coleman's style demands space, and the hole is either "there" or he sees a crease about to open!

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1 hour ago, Andrews_31 said:

NO, NO, NO!  I hate to seem as if I'm a Coleman defender (to a certain degree I am, as with all RBs only because I was a RB at one point in time), but I take issue with people consistently saying this!  Coleman DID NOT make it to the NFL "lacking vision!"  The knock on Coleman (if this is truly a knock) is the same as it has always been, it's his style of running!  Coleman "commits" to his cuts with that hard plant he has, and he can't neccesarily "recommit" and cut back when something opens on the backside (due to that hard *** plant and not picking up his feet quicker)!  His vision is fine, Coleman's style demands space, and the hole is either "there" or he sees a crease about to open!

I guess I should say patience? And I didn’t mean to qualify it as all the time.

Freeman’s innate running ability is what I was referencing. Not my intention to put Tevin down. He just seems to press his speed and rarely runs in a way to emphasis power first or create as much as he could on his own.

I just think he could be more dynamic.

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Knapp is new Assistant Coach of the year for 2018. A classic gym rat, just like Shanahan. Like KS he also has a firm hand which apparently Matt Ryan needs. Sark now has the internal support he lacked last season.  I say we offer him an OC salary for 5 years to remain as QB Coach.

Edited by Falconsin2012
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On 11/8/2018 at 5:29 PM, The Falcon Jedi Knight said:

Im actually going to agree with you for once. Whenever i see that toss sweep play I  cringe. We always lose 2 yards.

We are better running between the tackles. The problem is that toss sweep takes so long to get the RB to the edge and defenders are too quick to pursue it

The crux of being a great play caller is being able to analyze all of your plays, trends, and the opponents reactions to them; determine what the results are, but also the "why" of those results, and THEN find ways to use your own trends...  good and bad, coupled with what your opponents are doing, and turning the tables on them with alternative twists off of the very looks/plays they are keying to jump on.

The toss play sends a "bait signal" to opponents right now; Sark just figured out an alternative to make them pay for taking that bait!!!!!!!

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