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falcons007

Saints @ Vikings.

258 posts in this topic

7 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Player may salvage a move but cost is still a cost. For example, Julio has done his part. We had 2 shots at a SB in separate regimes already.

My point was never to criticize Davenport, but it's about objectively a cost the Saints never make if Brees wasn't on a 2 year window.

That's my point. Y'all are in all in mode for a good reason, just like the Falcons were with Julio and they made SB in his 2nd year, but fell short. We paid more and Ryan was 27 so we had another/better shot yet choked it. Mainly through OC playcalling/clock management as a result and collapsed defense. Brady in SB etc.

My point is long-term Davenport needs to pan out either way, as it was a 2 firsts for 1 trade. Still a loss if you don't reach the goal but maybe he'll be the Jordan replacement eventually once he reaches his prime. Not as big of a loss.

Like Julio replacing Roddy.

However, for Davenport the bulk of the investment was clearly for the SB window y'all have with biggest piece in Brees nearing retirement. Falcons trade had more dynamics/bigger cost because of the bigger window it afforded/lead into for us.

If he progresses like it seems like he may, it's a win. Ask any team in football if they could trade two 1sts for a 21 YO Von Miller/Khalil Mack type player, and I think the answer would be yes. I'm not saying he will turn into that, but it's clear that's what the Saints feel. 

You clearly want it to affect the current team, and the Saints are definitely all in, but claiming a draft pick has to help win a SB in a 2 year window is short sighted. Again, if he turns into what the Saints hope, the cost is minuscule. 

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2 minutes ago, saints4life25 said:

If he progresses like it seems like he may, it's a win. Ask any team in football if they could trade two 1sts for a 21 YO Von Miller/Khalil Mack type player, and I think the answer would be yes. I'm not saying he will turn into that, but it's clear that's what the Saints feel. 

You clearly want it to affect the current team, and the Saints are definitely all in, but claiming a draft pick has to help win a SB in a 2 year window is short sighted. Again, if he turns into what the Saints hope, the cost is minuscule. 

Saints didn't trade for a maybe Mack/Miller. They traded for maybe he can be that...so let's make the deal now for Brees maybe 2 year window.

That was the context of the trade.

Do they make the deal if Brees was 10 years younger? Just asking...

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4 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Saints didn't trade for a maybe Mack/Miller. They traded for maybe he can be that...so let's make the deal now for Brees maybe 2 year window.

That was the context of the trade.

Do they make the deal if Brees was 10 years younger? Just asking...

What in the world did you just say in that first paragraph? They didn't trade for a maybe he can be them, they traded for a maybe he can be them? You said exactly what I did, just worded it different. 

I don't see why not. Saints have never been afraid to move up for a prospect they liked, even more so with the current regime drafting. Saints felt they needed another pass rusher and liked Chubb and Davenport. Felt like it would cost too much for Chubb, so started making calls as Davenport got into range.

 

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51 minutes ago, saints4life25 said:

What in the world did you just say in that first paragraph? They didn't trade for a maybe he can be them, they traded for a maybe he can be them? You said exactly what I did, just worded it different. 

I don't see why not. Saints have never been afraid to move up for a prospect they liked, even more so with the current regime drafting. Saints felt they needed another pass rusher and liked Chubb and Davenport. Felt like it would cost too much for Chubb, so started making calls as Davenport got into range.

 

I explained myself wrong. The specific argument you brought up brings nuances.

A team clearly has to believe they are getting a player they project/hope that can become the type of player Mack/Miller are; as used in the examples in this case.

The rest of my post speaks for itself.

I'm saying basically a team doesn't just believe in a cost for a move like that over the player, but it's always weighed with their plans/goals as a team. Cleary, a SB window that could also use that specific piece is a big reason to pull the trigger on such a deal.

It's hard to believe a team gives up 2 firsts for an unproven draft pick that isn't a QB or top-10 selection.

So clearly that's where we differ. You say the Saints make the move regardless of Brees? I say Falcons wouldn't have made their move for Julio if it weren't for several factors. One was the then SB window, but it was more risky for the Falcons due to the cost. However, Julio and Ryan would give them other windows after the roster was turned over. We're still there now.

Y'all didn't pay nearly as much so not as much to be lost. Who knows if y'all pay what the next record setting contract for a DE of Mack's caliber just got paid after Davenport is eligible for FA, tho. Maybe having 1 less first to not be considered against the cap at that time will help or if you don't have a QB worth $25+M.

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13 hours ago, AsylumGuido said:

And where did you get that idea?  Brees has not only NOT suggested he will retire sooner than later, he has said recently on the NFL Network that he has no plans on retiring anytime soon.  He added he has lots more he is wanting to accomplish in his career with the Saints.  He added that his children are all just now getting to the age where they can appreciate his play in the game and he didn't want that to end anytime soon.

Hey, Guido! Nice to see you made the trip over to these boards from .Net!

How’s Hawk hat doing? Still on crazy adventures?

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On 10/28/2018 at 11:48 PM, theonenotthe2 said:

It could have merited a penalty, no doubt. It was dumb and should have been a 5-yard penalty. Trash? Not close but I get that this is anti-Saints bias coming out. Again, I think it is very dumb whether it is a player on my team or another. But it happens a lot and hardly ever gets called. The league has to be willing to enforce it more. Heck, it got called during the Packers/Rams game and the commentators immediately alluded to how rarely it is called. 

This. I think most fans in the NFC South forget this. Each week, there is a lot of hoping and praying that the teams in the NFC South lose. But the teams in the NFC South are just darn good and have great QB play, for the most part. So each week, your team has to bring it and take care of what is right in front of them. Because the other teams in the South are not ceding much ground or going to allow it to be easy. 

I didn’t mean trash as in the team stinks... I meant trash as in trash which is exactly what they always have been under that pos headhunting trash coach Payton...

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31 minutes ago, atlndvd said:

I didn’t mean trash as in the team stinks... I meant trash as in trash which is exactly what they always have been under that pos headhunting trash coach Payton...

I knew precisely what you meant and I disagree. As I stated, other teams do the same thing. Again, I think the onus is on the league to penalize teams for delay-of-game in those scenarios. In this particular instance, however, we are talking a 5-yard penalty for a team who would have needed far more than 15 seconds to come back from being down 10. 

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