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In defense of Michael Turner

148 posts in this topic

Just now, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Don't get too caught up on the raw stats. They are misleading. WA31 only carried the ball on 45% of our rushes. Turner carried the ball on 60% of our rushes. Are you giving any credit to WA31 for blocking Cain, Andrews and Stanback to several yards and TDs? Have you factored in WA31's receiving stats? He had 2,190 more receiving yards and 10 more TDs than Turner. Dude was considered by many to be the second best, if not best RB in the league during his prime (only trailing Walter Payton). He went to four straight Pro Bowls.

So your argument for Andrews being the better RB is because he was a better fullback, is that it? Lmao.

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1 hour ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Turner played at a time offense was still being more favored than previous eras. You could horse collar tackle still in Andrews' Era, for starters. When were clotheslines made illegal? I didn't see Andrews live either but respect the history of looking back.

I've never been a fan of comparing stats from guys that eras didn't even come close to crossing. Both are good players, but in a more physical Era William Andrews beasted guys. We don't know how well Turner would have done considering how quickly his body broke down.

Just my opinion...

Teams ran the ball a lot more, and a lot better in Andrews' era as well. Turner would kill behind the lines Andrews had. Turner has the misfortune of playing behind a sucky Oline and being a backup a few years. Still ended up with more rushing yards in 1 and half less seasons. Also have you seen Turner play? Trying to clothesline or horse Collar Turner is an idiotic idea, you tackle him by taking our his knees/feet. 

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1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

This is like trying to say Matthew Stafford is better than Joe Montana because Stafford's gonna have more TD's and yards when his career is over. You just can't compare era's like that when the game has changed so dramatically.

Except we are talking rbs, not QBs. The NFL is more of a passing league now where as it was a running league in the past and more RB friendly. Meaning OL had a lot more time practicing running plays and running the ball. 

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7 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Don't get too caught up on the raw stats. They are misleading. WA31 only carried the ball on 45% of our rushes. Turner carried the ball on 60% of our rushes. Are you giving any credit to WA31 for blocking Cain, Andrews and Stanback to several yards and TDs? Have you factored in WA31's receiving stats? He had 2,190 more receiving yards and 10 more TDs than Turner. Dude was considered by many to be the second best, if not best RB in the league during his prime (only trailing Walter Payton). He went to four straight Pro Bowls.

You are harping on those stupid 2190 receiving yards and 10 recieving tds, when Turner has almost  the same amount of Total net yards, and 20 more tds lol. We also need to factor that Andrews fumbled the ball 3x as much, and you will see that Turner contributed a lot more to his team's overall success. Turner was also the best RB in the NFL in 08, and wouldve been league MVP if not for Payton Manning. Also would've been a HOF if he wasnt LTs backup.

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On 10/19/2018 at 2:13 AM, Knight of God said:

Andrews and Riggs came before I was a fan, but Dunn wasn’t better than Turner. He was avg without Vick.

Man I miss the days of Turner with Ovie Mughelli blocking for him. Ovie is easily one of my favorite Falcons. After his injury against detriot our running game dropped hard.

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14 minutes ago, osiruz said:

So your argument for Andrews being the better RB is because he was a better fullback, is that it? Lmao.

I'm not arguing. Just sharing an objective viewpoint. I saw every snap of both backs. Loved both equally for what they brought to the team. The point is WA31 was a better overall RB. Ran as well, if not better than Turner (4.6 ypc vs 4.3 ypc), blocked better in the pass game and as a FB for multiple RBs, plus was a bonafide threat as a receiver. Buddy had a season with 81 receptions, 735 receiving yards and 2 receiving TDs. Oh and he rushed for 1301 yards and 10 TDs that year, while blocking for two other RBs. When did Turner do that? Ugh, never.

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14 minutes ago, osiruz said:

You are harping on those stupid 2190 receiving yards and 10 recieving tds, when Turner has almost  the same amount of Total net yards, and 20 more tds lol. We also need to factor that Andrews fumbled the ball 3x as much, and you will see that Turner contributed a lot more to his team's overall success. Turner was also the best RB in the NFL in 08, and wouldve been league MVP if not for Payton Manning. Also would've been a HOF if he wasnt LTs backup.

OK bro your mind is made up. You think Turner was better than WA31, although you never saw WA31 play. LMAO. 

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28 minutes ago, osiruz said:

Except we are talking rbs, not QBs. The NFL is more of a passing league now where as it was a running league in the past and more RB friendly. Meaning OL had a lot more time practicing running plays and running the ball. 

If you don't think the rushing game has changed then I don't know what to tell you.

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18 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Man I miss the days of Turner with Ovie Mughelli blocking for him. Ovie is easily one of my favorite Falcons. After his injury against detriot our running game dropped hard.

Ovie and Christian are the best two Falcons FB's I ever saw. Didn't get to see Andrews.

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I thought this was sort of a Turner tribute thread.  No need to bring other RBs into the picture - Turner gave this team everything he had and everything it needed at the time.  You can't ask for anything more.

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40 minutes ago, JOEinPHX said:

I thought this was sort of a Turner tribute thread.  No need to bring other RBs into the picture - Turner gave this team everything he had and everything it needed at the time.  You can't ask for anything more.

No it wasn't a tribute thread. It started like this:

After Turner retired, there was a great deal of talk on the Board about how he was gobbling burgers, fat, and in terrible shape.  I saw him at the Benz last weekend, and I have to say that he is in great shape and looks ready to fill in for an injured Freeman. Great job, Burner!! We miss you.

Second post was:

I still think he was the best RB we ever had and dumped him a year too early. 60 Tds is not a joke, go ask Julio.

Third post was:

He was awesome but I think no Falcons running back was better than William Andrews.

Then all hail broke loose. Turner was not the best ever Falcon RB. WA31 was. Trust me.

 
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2 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I'm not arguing. Just sharing an objective viewpoint. I saw every snap of both backs. Loved both equally for what they brought to the team. The point is WA31 was a better overall RB. Ran as well, if not better than Turner (4.6 ypc vs 4.3 ypc), blocked better in the pass game and as a FB for multiple RBs, plus was a bonafide threat as a receiver. Buddy had a season with 81 receptions, 735 receiving yards and 2 receiving TDs. Oh and he rushed for 1301 yards and 10 TDs that year, while blocking for two other RBs. When did Turner do that? Ugh, never.

How is that objective if the stats aren't even close? Sure WA31 had all those receiving yards and that was his best season ever, but turner's best season easily eclipsed him and I'll take those 17 franchise record td's. Be honest with the game on the line and you need a td from 2 yard's out which rb do you take?

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7 minutes ago, osiruz said:

How is that objective if the stats aren't even close? Sure WA31 had all those receiving yards and that was his best season ever, but turner's best season easily eclipsed him and I'll take those 17 franchise record td's. Be honest with the game on the line and you need a td from 2 yard's out which rb do you take?

Give me WA31. Can pound it in, block for another RB, or break somebody's ankles on an angle route.

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2 hours ago, osiruz said:

Teams ran the ball a lot more, and a lot better in Andrews' era as well. Turner would kill behind the lines Andrews had. Turner has the misfortune of playing behind a sucky Oline and being a backup a few years. Still ended up with more rushing yards in 1 and half less seasons. Also have you seen Turner play? Trying to clothesline or horse Collar Turner is an idiotic idea, you tackle him by taking our his knees/feet. 

Oddly enough the 1980 Falcons team attempted 559 rushes and the 2008 Falcons attempted 560. 

In 1981 the Falcons passed more than they ran. Bart was a helluva a QB in his prime and was tossing 30 TDS and 31 TDS in 80 and 81. You can't just say the team ran the ball more then. 

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1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Give me WA31. Can pound it in, block for another RB, or break somebody's ankles on an angle route.

You would take Turner and the Guaranteed TD, it's insane to say otherwise.

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1 hour ago, osiruz said:

You would take Turner and the Guaranteed TD, it's insane to say otherwise.

OK bro. Whatever you say.

WA31 will always be better than the Burner IMHO.

Maybe if you'd seen him play you'd agree. 

Keep doin you though. It's good entertainment.

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22 hours ago, Vandy said:

Turner wasn’t more physical than Andrews man. What makes you even think that?

And Maybe I am sentimental, because I knew the guy a little.

Look, I loved turner too, but my eyes told me Andrews was better. If he hadn’t gotten hurt, he would have been a HOFer.

For sure HOF. He would've been the first Falcon in by YEARS.

I've seen them all man. You have to go with the eye test. You can't base it all on stats. Even Riggs looks better on paper if you count his years in Washington. But I saw them both side by side. Riggs was bigger, maybe faster. But he wasn't as valuable as William.

It's about clutch plays when you needed them and William always seemed to have that ability. He just did what he had to do consistently. Especially in key situations. He never got stuffed like Turner against the Giants. You stack the box, he gets the 1st down anyway. In terms of impact, having William was like having Jamal's best year, EVERY year.

And you can't just ignore the passing part of the game. It's part of a running back's job in the NFL and has been for at least 4 decades. That's like saying one car is better than another, but it won't go in reverse.

It comes down to which player would you have on the team if you could only choose one? Well, barring having Jamal with a year like '98 for 10 straight years, it'd be William. No question. 

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5 hours ago, since68andcounting said:

For sure HOF. He would've been the first Falcon in by YEARS.

I've seen them all man. You have to go with the eye test. You can't base it all on stats. Even Riggs looks better on paper if you count his years in Washington. But I saw them both side by side. Riggs was bigger, maybe faster. But he wasn't as valuable as William.

It's about clutch plays when you needed them and William always seemed to have that ability. He just did what he had to do consistently. Especially in key situations. He never got stuffed like Turner against the Giants. You stack the box, he gets the 1st down anyway. In terms of impact, having William was like having Jamal's best year, EVERY year.

And you can't just ignore the passing part of the game. It's part of a running back's job in the NFL and has been for at least 4 decades. That's like saying one car is better than another, but it won't go in reverse.

It comes down to which player would you have on the team if you could only choose one? Well, barring having Jamal with a year like '98 for 10 straight years, it'd be William. No question. 

End thread/

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23 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Then all hail broke loose. Turner was not the best ever Falcon RB. WA31 was. Trust me.

 

Career wise you may be right.

But I think the best Falcon RB season has to be Jamal Anderson in 1998.  He didn't do a whole lot besides 98 but that season he was a monster.  

Interesting link:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl/career-rushing.htm

Riggs has the most total yards (Andrews blew out his knee) but Andrews has the highest YPC of the leading RBs.

 

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48 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

Career wise you may be right.

But I think the best Falcon RB season has to be Jamal Anderson in 1998.  He didn't do a whole lot besides 98 but that season he was a monster.  

Interesting link:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl/career-rushing.htm

Riggs has the most total yards (Andrews blew out his knee) but Andrews has the highest YPC of the leading RBs.

 

All of my top five all time Falcon RBs had at least one bonifide season. Jam included. Ran us to a Bowl.

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On October 21, 2018 at 4:52 PM, JOEinPHX said:

I thought this was sort of a Turner tribute thread.  No need to bring other RBs into the picture - Turner gave this team everything he had and everything it needed at the time.  You can't ask for anything more.

He had a unique ability to break off extremely long runs with virtually no moves. His width made him extremely hard to wrap up. We also had Jerious Norwood to watch and that pair was mighty entertaining for us and for the other guys it was a long night!

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