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Just now, Falconsfan567 said:

He wasn't closer for us after we traded for him. Minter was still closer.

He easily could've told him that he wanted to be THE closer and AA and Co said no thanks.

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1 minute ago, CrimsonFalcon said:

Could possibly not have a place open for him as a closer and we're bringing in Kimbrel.

We've certainly got more than one spot open in the bullpen. He's got a career ERA of 3.08 and had a 1.52 for us down the stretch last year. And $3 million is chump change these days.

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1 minute ago, CrimsonFalcon said:

He easily could've told him that he wanted to be THE closer and AA and Co said no thanks.

Well he's not guaranteed to be closer for the Cubs either. Cubs have Brandon Morrow, even though Morrow will be out for most or all of April.

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3 minutes ago, jidady said:

We didn't think he was worth $3 million? I don't get that.

That I can't answer. Maybe they didn't like his underlying statistics? He was okay in Atlanta. Not good, but okay. Guess his innings could potentially go to O'Day?

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2 minutes ago, jidady said:

We've certainly got more than one spot open in the bullpen. He's got a career ERA of 3.08 and had a 1.52 for us down the stretch last year. And $3 million is chump change these days.

So is $8.5M with a chance for it to be $11M for a guy as proven as Cody Allen. Angels gonna get a good trade deal line deal for him come July.

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Just now, ATLBrave said:

That I can't answer. Maybe they didn't like his underlying statistics? He was okay in Atlanta. Not good, but okay. Guess his innings could potentially go to O'Day?

Yeah. Maybe the Braves really are serious about paying Kimbrel $17M or whatever? It would be a total shock to the system since the Braves have never spent that kind of money on the bullpen ever, but maybe they're thinking like I was saying all summer, that it would be worth it to get a proven shutdown guy to take pressure off the rest of the guys. I thought Minter was better in the 8th inning than 9th. If Vizzy, O'Day, and Venters are all healthy and ready to go. If Biddle continues to progress. Braves can run one of the best bullpens of any team in all of baseball out there and make it 6 inning games. That takes pressure off the rotation. Folty finally got over that 5th inning hump the last half of the season so if he's a guarantee to take the ball into the 7th every 5 days and if we can get a full season of Newcomb like the 1st half Newcomb where he's 6 innings every time and occasionally taking the ball in the the 7th, that will help keep the innings of the bullpen down. All of a sudden the pitching situation looks like it's a major strength of the team instead of a major "maybe."

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2 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Yeah. Maybe the Braves really are serious about paying Kimbrel $17M or whatever? It would be a total shock to the system since the Braves have never spent that kind of money on the bullpen ever, but maybe they're thinking like I was saying all summer, that it would be worth it to get a proven shutdown guy to take pressure off the rest of the guys. I thought Minter was better in the 8th inning than 9th. If Vizzy, O'Day, and Venters are all healthy and ready to go. If Biddle continues to progress. Braves can run one of the best bullpens of any team in all of baseball out there and make it 6 inning games. That takes pressure off the rotation. Folty finally got over that 5th inning hump the last half of the season so if he's a guarantee to take the ball into the 7th every 5 days and if we can get a full season of Newcomb like the 1st half Newcomb where he's 6 innings every time and occasionally taking the ball in the the 7th, that will help keep the innings of the bullpen down. All of a sudden the pitching situation looks like it's a major strength of the team instead of a major "maybe."

Doesn't even mention Sobotka, Winkler or some of the younger arms getting stashed in the 'pen.

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Just now, ATLBrave said:

Doesn't even mention Sobotka or some of the younger arms getting stashed in the 'pen.

Exactly. We honestly don't know how that's gonna shake out so I didn't want to speculate.

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1 hour ago, CrimsonFalcon said:

Could possibly not have a place open for him as a closer and we're bringing in Kimbrel.

This team was too cheap to pay for an actual RFer. Why would they spend top $$$ on a closer?

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9 minutes ago, Malachore said:

This team was too cheap to pay for an actual RFer. Why would they spend top $$$ on a closer?

They value pitching and defense.  Kakes was a gold glover this year.  

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26 minutes ago, Malachore said:

This team was too cheap to pay for an actual RFer. Why would they spend top $$$ on a closer?

If they did it would be called priority. If they sign Kimbrel its because Anthopolous felt a closer was a bigger need. You invest in areas that need it the most. In the OF we have Camargo, Duvall and Riley is going to work the OF some in Spring. 

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34 minutes ago, Malachore said:

This team was too cheap to pay for an actual RFer. Why would they spend top $$$ on a closer?

Pretty much explained right here why signing Kimbrel makes sense.

1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Yeah. Maybe the Braves really are serious about paying Kimbrel $17M or whatever? It would be a total shock to the system since the Braves have never spent that kind of money on the bullpen ever, but maybe they're thinking like I was saying all summer, that it would be worth it to get a proven shutdown guy to take pressure off the rest of the guys. I thought Minter was better in the 8th inning than 9th. If Vizzy, O'Day, and Venters are all healthy and ready to go. If Biddle continues to progress. Braves can run one of the best bullpens of any team in all of baseball out there and make it 6 inning games. That takes pressure off the rotation. Folty finally got over that 5th inning hump the last half of the season so if he's a guarantee to take the ball into the 7th every 5 days and if we can get a full season of Newcomb like the 1st half Newcomb where he's 6 innings every time and occasionally taking the ball in the the 7th, that will help keep the innings of the bullpen down. All of a sudden the pitching situation looks like it's a major strength of the team instead of a major "maybe."

 

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39 minutes ago, Malachore said:

His defense is overrated imo.

He just doesnt have a lot of range. He makes the plays he can reach. Ender helps with the lack of range.

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2 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Pretty much explained right here why signing Kimbrel makes sense.

 

Just seems to go against what they believe and is a huge risk with the reward not being much if any better than if he had signed Allen or Herrera.

Or even taken a risk on a Greinke/Bradley trade.

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1 hour ago, Malachore said:

His defense is overrated imo.

I was curious about this, so I checked. You're right about this. Fangraphs lists his defense at -6.4 for 2018, which negated most of his +9 offense. If he struggles on offense this year, his presence becomes a huge negative on the field, although he remains a tremendous leader of men.

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1 hour ago, Malachore said:

His defense is overrated imo.

 

50 minutes ago, Unkn0wn said:

He just doesnt have a lot of range. He makes the plays he can reach. Ender helps with the lack of range.

The move from Turner Field to SunTrust Park helped him a lot too since RF in the new park is much smaller.

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19 minutes ago, Malachore said:

Just seems to go against what they believe and is a huge risk with the reward not being much if any better than if he had signed Allen or Herrera.

Or even taken a risk on a Greinke/Bradley trade.

We don't know what the asking price was on Greinke/Bradley and if the Diamondbacks were even willing to do that kind of a move. As far as Kimbrel compared to Allen and Herrera? Check out their saves numbers.

  • Kimbrel = 333 for 367 (90.7%)
  • Allen = 149 for 172 (86.6%)
  • Vizcaino = 49 for 61 (80.3%)
  • Herrera = 60 for 81 (74.1%)

I threw Vizcaino in there because he gets a lot of grief on here for making the 9th inning an adventure.

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1 hour ago, jidady said:

I was curious about this, so I checked. You're right about this. Fangraphs lists his defense at -6.4 for 2018, which negated most of his +9 offense. If he struggles on offense this year, his presence becomes a huge negative on the field, although he remains a tremendous leader of men.

I agree with you but at what point are we going to move on from players like this? We aren't rebuilding anymore and guys like Freddie, Mac, Flow, and imo the only thing Snit does well.

If Ender gets hurt or his defense slips then that makes Nick even less valuable. I like Nick the human being but I just have zero clue why this FO thought bringing him back and giving him 500 ABs was a wise move.

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1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

We don't know what the asking price was on Greinke/Bradley and if the Diamondbacks were even willing to do that kind of a move. As far as Kimbrel compared to Allen and Herrera? Check out their saves numbers.

  • Kimbrel = 333 for 367 (90.7%)
  • Allen = 149 for 172 (86.6%)
  • Vizcaino = 49 for 61 (80.3%)
  • Herrera = 60 for 81 (74.1%)

I threw Vizcaino in there because he gets a lot of grief on here for making the 9th inning an adventure.

There's no debate that Kimbrel is one of the best to ever do it but he's getting close to that age closers become less effective and he's not exactly been consistent in the 9th even if he's not blowing it.

He's almost asking for starter money.

AZ just traded the face of their franchise. I'm sure they'd be willing to unload Greinke and a guy they moved to setup near season's end. 

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30 minutes ago, Malachore said:

I agree with you but at what point are we going to move on from players like this?

 

My guess is July, when we trade for someone else. It could also possibly happen during Spring Training. In addition to all of the other nonsense, Coppy did the franchise a disservice by obsessing on pitching at the expense of position players. We should have had at least one viable OFer above A-ball before the middle of 2018. But here we are.  At least Pache made the jump to AA late in the year. He's probably on a 2020 timeline and could surprise before then.

My issue is that I wanted us to dump Ender, so I don't like 2/3 of our starting OF on paper.

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6 hours ago, ATLBrave said:

That I can't answer. Maybe they didn't like his underlying statistics? He was okay in Atlanta. Not good, but okay. Guess his innings could potentially go to O'Day?

I think this is the answer. O'Day replaces Brach. If there's another added bullpen piece it will be someone with a different skill-set.

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1 hour ago, Malachore said:

There's no debate that Kimbrel is one of the best to ever do it but he's getting close to that age closers become less effective and he's not exactly been consistent in the 9th even if he's not blowing it.

He's almost asking for starter money.

AZ just traded the face of their franchise. I'm sure they'd be willing to unload Greinke and a guy they moved to setup near season's end. 

But we have no clue what the asking price is and if it was a reasonable one. I also doubt that spending $30M a year on a nearly 36 year old starting pitcher for the next 3 years isn't the wisest of moves either.

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1 hour ago, Malachore said:

I agree with you but at what point are we going to move on from players like this? We aren't rebuilding anymore and guys like Freddie, Mac, Flow, and imo the only thing Snit does well.

If Ender gets hurt or his defense slips then that makes Nick even less valuable. I like Nick the human being but I just have zero clue why this FO thought bringing him back and giving him 500 ABs was a wise move.

The only issue with Nick Markakis in his time with the Braves is that he has been hitting cleanup for most of it when he should be hitting either 2nd and using his great OBP to his advantage or down in the 6th spot being a 2nd type clean up hitter.

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