Ransack

2018/2019 Braves Offseason Thread

2,142 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, ATLBrave said:

Don’t really ever share stuff about my personal life, but I’ve been discussing Braves baseball with some of y’all for almost a decade now, so why not? :lol:

 

Added a little Braves fan to family on Wednesday! 9.2 lbs whopper of a boy named Theo!

Congratulations! :tiphat:

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I would give up Pache and Touki for three years of Kluber at $17.5 million per. His contract is extremely reasonable for a guy who has finished top-3 in the Cy Young four out of the last five years (and #9 the fifth year).  I'd prefer to do Ender instead of Pache, but I doubt Cleveland OR Atlanta would.

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12 minutes ago, jidady said:

I would give up Pache and Touki for three years of Kluber at $17.5 million per. His contract is extremely reasonable for a guy who has finished top-3 in the Cy Young four out of the last five years (and #9 the fifth year).  I'd prefer to do Ender instead of Pache, but I doubt Cleveland OR Atlanta would.

I love Touki, probably more than most here, but I’m 100% with you on that. The chances of him reaching the level of a Kluber are probably 25%.

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44 minutes ago, jidady said:

I would give up Pache and Touki for three years of Kluber at $17.5 million per. His contract is extremely reasonable for a guy who has finished top-3 in the Cy Young four out of the last five years (and #9 the fifth year).  I'd prefer to do Ender instead of Pache, but I doubt Cleveland OR Atlanta would.

 

31 minutes ago, ATLBrave said:

I love Touki, probably more than most here, but I’m 100% with you on that. The chances of him reaching the level of a Kluber are probably 25%.

Pache is the deal breaker for me on that one, not Touki.

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1 minute ago, Falconsfan567 said:

 

Pache is the deal breaker for me on that one, not Touki.

I totally get that, but it's Corey Kluber. Pache has a career minor league OPS of .706. I would take the chance that he never hits for the opportunity to get a truly elite starter.

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4 minutes ago, jidady said:

I totally get that, but it's Corey Kluber. Pache has a career minor league OPS of .706. I would take the chance that he never hits for the opportunity to get a truly elite starter.

If it happened I'm not gonna cry about it. It's just not my first choice. I'd rather do something like Ender, Touki and then another piece like Wentz to make the deal work. I think folks are underselling Ender's trade value slightly.

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13 hours ago, ATLBrave said:

Don’t really ever share stuff about my personal life, but I’ve been discussing Braves baseball with some of y’all for almost a decade now, so why not? :lol:

 

Added a little Braves fan to family on Wednesday! 9.2 lbs whopper of a boy named Theo!

GRATZ!

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4 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

If it happened I'm not gonna cry about it. It's just not my first choice. I'd rather do something like Ender, Touki and then another piece like Wentz to make the deal work. I think folks are underselling Ender's trade value slightly.

Question about Pache what is his end game people expect him to end up being in the bigs?   Is his expected ceilin supposed to be a Ender or do people expect him to be a much better player than Ender.   I somewhat look at that a bit like i did the Dansby and Simmons thing.  I always thought Simmons was the cream of the crop at SS on defense and thought his bat would come around to a solid .275 to .285 and  340 to .360 obp hitter with god tier defense.   Where as i thought Dansby would be a similar hitter with a bit more pop to his bat but a lesser talent at defense.  Of the 2 i would have rather kept the real deal i already seen what he could do and had him on a good deal contract wise.   If Pache is supposed to be a ender type of player then i would rather trade pache and keep ender who i know does well already and have him on a really good contract as well already.    I don't mind using prospects to replace guys but i prefer to trade them if their not gonna be massive expected upgrades or the contract im replacing isn't huge to free up a ton of cap space.

So with that said whats the expectations on a Pache at the next level that i should be looking out for is it a much higher caliber player than a ender on a good season?

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10 hours ago, jidady said:

I would give up Pache and Touki for three years of Kluber at $17.5 million per. His contract is extremely reasonable for a guy who has finished top-3 in the Cy Young four out of the last five years (and #9 the fifth year).  I'd prefer to do Ender instead of Pache, but I doubt Cleveland OR Atlanta would.

You feel like Atlanta values Ender more than Pache or just that it leaves a hole they can't fill THIS year?

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5 hours ago, FalconFan13 said:

So with that said whats the expectations on a Pache at the next level that i should be looking out for is it a much higher caliber player than a ender on a good season?

Pache should have more power than Inciarte while also being an elite-level defender. My comp to Pache is Mike Cameron

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3 hours ago, Malachore said:

You feel like Atlanta values Ender more than Pache or just that it leaves a hole they can't fill THIS year?

It leaves a hole right now. Ender kind of went wrong over the 15 months, so I figured that they would explore trade options. Everything I'm reading indicates that they're not, although that could be posturing. We should know more over the coming week.

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10 hours ago, FalconFan13 said:

Question about Pache what is his end game people expect him to end up being in the bigs?   Is his expected ceilin supposed to be a Ender or do people expect him to be a much better player than Ender.   I somewhat look at that a bit like i did the Dansby and Simmons thing.  I always thought Simmons was the cream of the crop at SS on defense and thought his bat would come around to a solid .275 to .285 and  340 to .360 obp hitter with god tier defense.   Where as i thought Dansby would be a similar hitter with a bit more pop to his bat but a lesser talent at defense.  Of the 2 i would have rather kept the real deal i already seen what he could do and had him on a good deal contract wise.   If Pache is supposed to be a ender type of player then i would rather trade pache and keep ender who i know does well already and have him on a really good contract as well already.    I don't mind using prospects to replace guys but i prefer to trade them if their not gonna be massive expected upgrades or the contract im replacing isn't huge to free up a ton of cap space.

So with that said whats the expectations on a Pache at the next level that i should be looking out for is it a much higher caliber player than a ender on a good season?

Chipper said that Pache's defense is MLB ready right now and better than Acuna's. He said the tools are there for him to be really good offensively. When Chipper speaks I listen.

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1 hour ago, jidady said:

It leaves a hole right now. Ender kind of went wrong over the 15 months, so I figured that they would explore trade options. Everything I'm reading indicates that they're not, although that could be posturing. We should know more over the coming week.

Yes, it leaves a hole right now, until the Braves acquire another outfielder. There's always the option to place Riley in the OF. So, Riley gets LF or RF depending on who the other OF is we bring in and Acuna takes over CF. We also still have everyone's favorite Duvall on the roster.

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4 hours ago, K26dp said:

Pache should have more power than Inciarte while also being an elite-level defender. My comp to Pache is Mike Cameron

Just looking at the numbers, Mike Cameron had a better career than I remember. He walked more than I recall which made his OBP a lot higher than it would have been otherwise since he was only a .249 career hitter. But his OBP was .338. So nearly 100 points worth of OBP thanks to his walks. Always had good pop as shown by his career .444 slugging percentage and 20 or more bombs 8 times. Cameron's peak years were 1999-2006 and he hit .256/.347/.461 (.809) and played gold glove defense. I'll take that from Pache.

BTW, he'll always be remembered as the guy traded for Ken Griffey Jr. That's one of those historical trade facts that amuses me.

EDIT: Woah wait, he was also traded for Paul Konerko, who while not an MLB HOF'er is a White Sox HOF'er. So he was traded for two extremely good players in his career.

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6 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Chipper said that Pache's defense is MLB ready right now and better than Acuna's. He said the tools are there for him to be really good offensively. When Chipper speaks I listen.


Im not saying he's not good i was asking if he's supposed to be better than Ender on defense and offense.  Also being better than Acunas defense right now wouldn't be that hard he's about avg on defense right now.   The guy he would be replacing would be Ender for me if we trade ender and thats a whole other level of defense because ender is very good out there.  

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4 hours ago, K26dp said:

Pache should have more power than Inciarte while also being an elite-level defender. My comp to Pache is Mike Cameron

See this is what i was looking for so his upside is higher than an ender type player overall if he is compared to cameron.  Although i would hope his avg is a bit better than camerons and is in the .275 to .280 range or so.  

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1 minute ago, FalconFan13 said:

Im not saying he's not good i was asking if he's supposed to be better than Ender on defense and offense. Also being better than Acunas defense right now wouldn't be that hard he's about avg on defense right now.  The guy he would be replacing would be Ender for me if we trade ender and thats a whole other level of defense because ender is very good out there.  

I just answered your question, yes he is. Ender is a gold glove defender who's very average offensively. We haven't seen the best of Acuna's defense because he was learning the ball parks (which is harder playing LF and RF because of foul territory) and that led to some mistakes, but he wasn't bad defensively. Not by a long shot, and also he was playing a different position. CF where Acuna played most of the time in the minors.

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On 12/8/2018 at 2:19 PM, FalconFan13 said:

See this is what i was looking for so his upside is higher than an ender type player overall if he is compared to cameron.  Although i would hope his avg is a bit better than camerons and is in the .275 to .280 range or so.  

Comps aren't ever "this guy will equal this guy". It's just to give a rough approximation of the type of player. Specifically, a guy with great defense with good power from the CF position.

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11 minutes ago, K26dp said:

Comps aren't ever "this guy will equal this guy". It's just to give a rough approximation of the type of player. Specifically, a guy with great defense with good power from the CF position.

yeah comps are never an exact but they do work well to give you an idea of what could be expected compared to another type of player you might already have.   I haven't seen much of Pache at all yet so you linking me to a player he could have a trajectory to if he does well.  Helps me decide if i think he would be worth keeping over an Ender type of player and if the potential is worth it over what i know is already a really good player.  If the potential is expected to be that much higher then i am the type of person who keeps the prospect over the known player and would trade ender.  But if the player is compared alot to a guy like ender and not much better if any better then i'll prefer to stay with what i already know is a good pro player and trade the prospect.  I mean in the end Pache could be a hall of famer waiting for his time to shine no one will know til it happens but it's atleast worth looking at what people liken him to :)

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13 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

yeah comps are never an exact but they do work well to give you an idea of what could be expected compared to another type of player you might already have.   I haven't seen much of Pache at all yet so you linking me to a player he could have a trajectory to if he does well.  Helps me decide if i think he would be worth keeping over an Ender type of player and if the potential is worth it over what i know is already a really good player.  If the potential is expected to be that much higher then i am the type of person who keeps the prospect over the known player and would trade ender.  But if the player is compared alot to a guy like ender and not much better if any better then i'll prefer to stay with what i already know is a good pro player and trade the prospect.  I mean in the end Pache could be a hall of famer waiting for his time to shine no one will know til it happens but it's atleast worth looking at what people liken him to :)

You also have to remember that when a guy like Chipper heaps extreme high quality praise on someone, well you stop and listen because he doesn't do that for just anyone. That's a major barometer for me of a guy's potential.

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Reports out of the winter meetings continue to say the Braves like Dallas Keuchel. Jon Heyman said it "seems" that Keuchel is #1 on their list. He also mentioned they're seeking 1 SP, 1 RP and 1 OF.

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4 hours ago, Unkn0wn said:

Reports out of the winter meetings continue to say the Braves like Dallas Keuchel. Jon Heyman said it "seems" that Keuchel is #1 on their list. He also mentioned they're seeking 1 SP, 1 RP and 1 OF.

What's so great about Dallas Keuchel?

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25 minutes ago, Nereek said:

What's so great about Dallas Keuchel?

If you can't trade for one then Dallas is the best pitcher available. However I wouldnt put much thought into it. A lot of rumors come out of the winter meetings, some accurate but some not. Keuchels agent could just be planting the story because he knows the Braves have a lot of money to spend and he wants to create a bidding war. A week ago Mark Bowman confirmed the Braves have not called Dallas or spoke with anyone from his camp.

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4 hours ago, Unkn0wn said:

Reports out of the winter meetings continue to say the Braves like Dallas Keuchel. Jon Heyman said it "seems" that Keuchel is #1 on their list. He also mentioned they're seeking 1 SP, 1 RP and 1 OF.

And yes, I sang that last sentence to George Thorogood's One Bourbon, One Scotch and One Beer...

m2Falcons, CrimsonFalcon and jidady like this

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