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2018/2019 Braves Offseason Thread

2,164 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, K26dp said:

Boston had 11. So did the Dodgers and the Brewers. The Cubs and Yankees had 12. 

This was the lesson the Braves learned in 2014, you need at least 8 actual major league quality starters, preferably 10. And even that may not be enough. This is why you stockpile arms. If Gwinnett starts the season with something like Toussaint, Wright, Wilson, Allard, and Weigel this is a good thing because it it likely all of them will be needed.

That still doesn't successful address the point I made. Why is rushing Anderson a good thing? It's not. I don't want to see him pitching in Atlanta in 2019 because then that means things have not gone as planned.

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5 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

That still doesn't successful address the point I made. Why is rushing Anderson a good thing? It's not. I don't want to see him pitching in Atlanta in 2019 because then that means things have not gone as planned.

Nobody's rushed Anderson. He'll start in AA. If he pitches well and there's an opportunity he may get a shot in 2019, but he's low in the pecking order right now.

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47 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Point is still the same and neither you nor @ATLBrave have addressed that one adequately.

1

We have. You just don't like it. You're fantasizing about a player that you believe will strengthen our chances at winning the World Series. We're coming at it from the perspective that six years of control of Anderson looks better on paper right now.

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33 minutes ago, K26dp said:

He came in #5 for is, but he was a lot closer to #1 than #6 if that makes any sense. 

No, it totally does. Picking our best guy isn't easy, same as it was in 2005 and 1992.

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2 minutes ago, jidady said:

We have. You just don't like it. You're fantasizing about a player that you believe will strengthen our chances at winning the World Series. We're coming at it from the perspective that six years of control of Anderson looks better on paper right now.

Again, AA said that he won't rush prospects. Anderson has 4 games above A-Ball. Him in Atlanta in 2019 is being rushed.

Also, who are you willing to trade? You can't just horde all these pitchers because unless we're running a 10-man rotation out there in 2020 there's no spot for all of them. So why not trade a couple of them and get someone of great need that is capable of helping you reach the ultimate goal in 2019? The Braves didn't sign Donaldson or McCann to simply reach the playoffs in 2019. Reaching the playoffs in 2019 ain't good enough. The goal is much greater than that. It's World Series or bust for the Braves in 2019. That's why you give Josh Donaldson $23M. Because he's capable of helping you reach that ultimate goal. That's why we're going to trade for a front line starting pitcher and reinforce the bullpen. Because those areas are needed to reach the ultimate goal.

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2 hours ago, usmcdirtybird said:

If the Braves pull trades and acquire a Haniger and a Kluber or Bumgarner.  Do they go after a Kimbrel?  

Kimbrel wants a 6 year deal so I don't see us giving him that, which means that would most likely take us out of the Kimbrel drawing.

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Just now, Falconsfan567 said:

Also, who are you willing to trade?

 

If you look back at my original reply, I specifically said a deal I would do. There are some prospects I like better than others. Until midway through last year, I wasn't married to Anderson. Over the past 1 1/2 seasons, I've come around on him. Tools guys don't excite me, but stats guys do. His stats line up with Atlanta's scouting now. 

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7 minutes ago, jidady said:

If you look back at my original reply, I specifically said a deal I would do. There are some prospects I like better than others. Until midway through last year, I wasn't married to Anderson. Over the past 1 1/2 seasons, I've come around on him. Tools guys don't excite me, but stats guys do. His stats line up with Atlanta's scouting now. 

Ok. I'm just saying, right now, the future is now. It's time to cash in on some of these arms!! Don't have *** it because you're worried about 2020 or 2023 or whatever **** year. I'm tired of having to be patient and do everything to make sure we don't screw up 2020 or 2023 or whatever year because it would be a waste to go all in on the current year. That's over. AA proved that's over with signing Donaldson and McCann. Braves are all-in on 2019 as they should be. Can't wait to see what else AA has in store to put a World Series caliber team on the field in 2019.

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I’m not opposed to dealing arms at all. What I am opposed to is dealing our best ones for anything less than an elite-level return. If you told me we’d have to part with Anderson, Pache plus a couple of other highly rated prospects for DeGrom, then I’d grin and bear it. Haniger, while quite good, is not on that level. Basically the equivalent of the Cubs giving up Jimenez to get Jose Quintana. 

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1 hour ago, ATLBrave said:

I’m not opposed to dealing arms at all. What I am opposed to is dealing our best ones for anything less than an elite-level return. If you told me we’d have to part with Anderson, Pache plus a couple of other highly rated prospects for DeGrom, then I’d grin and bear it. Haniger, while quite good, is not on that level. Basically the equivalent of the Cubs giving up Jimenez to get Jose Quintana. 

This is exactly how I feel as well and I'll always take the guy already proven over a prospect. I'm not saying AA won't or shouldn't trade Anderson, Pache or Wright but I don't think it happens unless there is another elite talent coming back to us.

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9 hours ago, K26dp said:

I want to win now too.

But I also think a lot of these pitchers are really good at baseball and can help now. And in the future.

So which players are untradeable? I'd hate to see wright or riley get traded. Wright is going to be an ace and most scouts around baseball say Riley is the best 3rd base prospect sense Scott Rolen

Edited by TRUju2111

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I just read a story on the Venters signing. Hadnt heard that yet. Happy they Kinda payed him "above" slot so to speak. Seemed like a good gesture and also not a huge risk since contracts are not 100% guaranteed there.

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31 minutes ago, Dawggone said:

I just read a story on the Venters signing. Hadnt heard that yet. Happy they Kinda payed him "above" slot so to speak. Seemed like a good gesture and also not a huge risk since contracts are not 100% guaranteed there.

They aren't guaranteed at all. Arbitration players have to make the 25 man roster to get that money. We could send Duvall packing for basically nothing if he bombs out in Spring.

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1 hour ago, Unkn0wn said:

They aren't guaranteed at all. Arbitration players have to make the 25 man roster to get that money. We could send Duvall packing for basically nothing if he bombs out in Spring.

Duvall is garbage, hopefully we get someone to replace him

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7 hours ago, ATLBrave said:

I’m not opposed to dealing arms at all. What I am opposed to is dealing our best ones for anything less than an elite-level return. If you told me we’d have to part with Anderson, Pache plus a couple of other highly rated prospects for DeGrom, then I’d grin and bear it. Haniger, while quite good, is not on that level. Basically the equivalent of the Cubs giving up Jimenez to get Jose Quintana. 

So which pitchers would you trade to get Haniger who is a really good player who's under team control for at least 2 seasons? Like I said, I clearly underrated Ian Anderson. So, don't trade him. Take him off the table. Take Wright off the table. Take Soroka and Touki off the table. Those guys shouldn't be moved. Allard? Yes. Wentz? Yes. Weigel? Yes. Fried? As much as I'd hate too since I'm higher on him than I am the other folks around here are, yes. Gohara? Yes. You've got to give up something to get something and while Haniger isn't an "elite" talent, I'd put him in the top 15-20 best outfielders in baseball, at least offensively.

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9 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

So which pitchers would you trade to get Haniger who is a really good player who's under team control for at least 2 seasons? Like I said, I clearly underrated Ian Anderson. So, don't trade him. Take him off the table. Take Wright off the table. Take Soroka and Touki off the table. Those guys shouldn't be moved. Allard? Yes. Wentz? Yes. Weigel? Yes. Fried? As much as I'd hate too since I'm higher on him than I am the other folks around here are, yes. Gohara? Yes. You've got to give up something to get something and while Haniger isn't an "elite" talent, I'd put him in the top 15-20 best outfielders in baseball, at least offensively.

Haniger is a risk, he just had his first good season at 28. Was it a fluke, or is he just a late bloomer about to have 5 great years. If he was a sure thing he would be worth an elite prospect

Edited by TRUju2111

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1 minute ago, TRUju2111 said:

Haniger is a risk, he just had his first good season at 28. Was it a fluke, or is he just a late bloomer about to have 5 great years. If he was a sure thing he would be worth an elite prospect

  • 2017 = .282/.352/.491 (.843) = 130 wRC+
  • 2018 = .285/.366/.493 (.859) = 138 wRC+

He was a 1st round pick of the Brewers in 2012. Career .289/.370/.492 (.862) hitter in the minors. Career .330/.421/.653 (1.074) in Triple-A. I don't know why it took him so long to finally get a chance in the majors. Got a cup of coffee with the Diamondbacks in 2016, half season with the Mariners in 2017 and his first full season with the Mariners in 2018. Also, he hasn't turned 28 year, turns 28 later this month. Under team control for 4 seasons. There's no legit reason to believe that he's a "fluke" based on his MiLB track record. His walk rate in MLB is 9.3% and his strikeout rate in MLB is 22.0%. Both those numbers are really good for a legit power guy. Compare that to Freddie Freeman who's walk rate in MLB is 11.2% and strikeout rate in MLB is 20.8%.

There's risk with any one, but Haniger is no more a risk than anyone else. We'd be stupid to not want him in a Braves uniform.

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@K26dp

I hope this is accurate, but here's my current breakdown of the Braves payroll.

  • Service Time as of January 1st
  • Age as of April 1st
  • Option Years are listed in Blue
  • Free Agent years at listed with Red
  • Projected MLBTR Arbitration numbers are listed in Purple

 

Braves Payroll - Dec, 1.PNG

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"5. Dallas Keuchel, LHP, free agent — Keuchel, according to our executive sources, will be the third-most popular pitcher on the free agent market behind Patrick Corbin and Eovaldi. Keuchel isn’t a flame-thrower, but his stuff still works. Keuchel could be a target of teams such as the Brewers, Reds, Cardinals, and Rangers. The Braves, looking for a veteran leader, also have Keuchel high on their wish list."

 

" Sticking with the Braves, free-agent left-hander Dallas Keuchel is “high on their wish list,” Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe writes. Keuchel rejected a qualifying offer from the Astros in favor of reaching the open market, but because the Braves received revenue sharing and didn’t exceed the competitive balance tax in 2018, they’d only lose their third-highest draft pick in signing him. While Keuchel does figure to ink one of the richest contracts in this winter’s free-agent class, the Braves may have the money to reel him in, even after committing a combined $25MM to McCann and Josh Donaldson this week. Atlanta has plenty of young starting pitching on hand, but it’s arguably in need of a quality veteran starter like the soon-to-be 31-year-old Keuchel – especially with integral 2018 contributor Anibal Sanchez now a free agent and Julio Teheran looking like a potential trade chip."

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20 minutes ago, jidady said:

"5. Dallas Keuchel, LHP, free agent — Keuchel, according to our executive sources, will be the third-most popular pitcher on the free agent market behind Patrick Corbin and Eovaldi. Keuchel isn’t a flame-thrower, but his stuff still works. Keuchel could be a target of teams such as the Brewers, Reds, Cardinals, and Rangers. The Braves, looking for a veteran leader, also have Keuchel high on their wish list."

 

" Sticking with the Braves, free-agent left-hander Dallas Keuchel is “high on their wish list,” Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe writes. Keuchel rejected a qualifying offer from the Astros in favor of reaching the open market, but because the Braves received revenue sharing and didn’t exceed the competitive balance tax in 2018, they’d only lose their third-highest draft pick in signing him. While Keuchel does figure to ink one of the richest contracts in this winter’s free-agent class, the Braves may have the money to reel him in, even after committing a combined $25MM to McCann and Josh Donaldson this week. Atlanta has plenty of young starting pitching on hand, but it’s arguably in need of a quality veteran starter like the soon-to-be 31-year-old Keuchel – especially with integral 2018 contributor Anibal Sanchez now a free agent and Julio Teheran looking like a potential trade chip."

Yep. Saw that earlier but didn't post it because Nick Cafardo has a long history of being wrong about anything that is non Boston related.

Although, Dallas Keuchel makes a lot of sense for the Braves. He's a ground ball pitcher and the Braves have a great defensive infield, so it would work well.

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