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2018/2019 Braves Offseason Thread

2,164 posts in this topic

20 minutes ago, usmcdirtybird said:

@Falconsfan567 I saw an article of trade speculation for Mariners trading Maniger to Braves starting with two of our top three prospects. 

Two of Soroka, Wright, and Anderson.  What are your thoughts?  

https://tomahawktake.com/2018/11/30/atlanta-braves-4/

 

 

14 minutes ago, Malachore said:

Helllllllll no.

That’s a definite Helllllll Naw. 

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41 minutes ago, usmcdirtybird said:

@Falconsfan567 I saw an article of trade speculation for Mariners trading Maniger to Braves starting with two of our top three prospects. 

Two of Soroka, Wright, and Anderson.  What are your thoughts?  

https://tomahawktake.com/2018/11/30/atlanta-braves-4/

 

HeIl naw!!! Take out Soroka and then we can start talking.

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7 minutes ago, jidady said:

Just...why? He redefined failure for us down the stretch.

Realistically, probably just keeping him until we get a replacement. Right now the only true outfielders we currently have on the roster are Duvall, Ender and Acuna.

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I like Haniger a lot. He's effectively got two full seasons of 129 OPS+ play. The glove is a concern, though. FanGraphs had him at -1.5 in 2017, which is acceptable. For 2018, he was -9, which is not. Matt Kemp was -9.6 for comparison (-14.1 in his season with us).

He seems like a guy who would get a team's top five prospect, their 10-15 prospect, and a flyer (i.e someone 30 or under).

Looking at k26's list, that's the equivalent of Touki/Ian Anderson, Joey Wentz, and Riley Delgado. I wouldn't do that.

I would think long and hard about it for Gohara, Kyle Muller, and Alex Jackson.

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5 minutes ago, jidady said:

I like Haniger a lot. He's effectively got two full seasons of 129 OPS+ play. The glove is a concern, though. FanGraphs had him at -1.5 in 2017, which is acceptable. For 2018, he was -9, which is not. Matt Kemp was -9.6 for comparison (-14.1 in his season with us).

He seems like a guy who would get a team's top five prospect, their 10-15 prospect, and a flyer (i.e someone 30 or under).

Looking at k26's list, that's the equivalent of Touki/Ian Anderson, Joey Wentz, and Riley Delgado. I wouldn't do that.

I would think long and hard about it for Gohara, Kyle Muller, and Alex Jackson.

I'll just say this in defense of his defense, Nick Markakis' defense improved after moving to STP because there was a lot less area for him to cover than at The Ted. Haniger plays in a very spacious OF at Safeco. Moving to STP could have the same affect on his defense.

I'd do Ian Anderson, Joey Wentz, and Riley Delgado in a heartbeat and skip happily to the playoffs on the back of his 30 HR's. Seriously, Acuna, Freeman, Donaldson, and Haniger. That's 4 guys with 30 bombs. That's 4 guys that do more than just hit bombs. That's worth it!!

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Anderson has got to be about as untouchable as it gets, unless a DeGrom-level talent is coming back. The kid has arguably the highest ceiling on any player in the minors, offensively or on the mound. 

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6 minutes ago, ATLBrave said:

Anderson has got to be about as untouchable as it gets, unless a DeGrom-level talent is coming back. The kid has arguably the highest ceiling on any player in the minors, offensively or on the mound. 

Yeah, ignoring the toolsy discussions, he only gave up 6.6 hits per 9 innings this year against 10.7 strikeouts. And he's only given up 3 homers in 254 career innings pitched. I despised that pick when we did it, but he is checking all of the boxes for a potential top-notch MLB starter. The guys with legit stuff don't get squared up in the minors. So far, that's Anderson.

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22 minutes ago, usmcdirtybird said:

If the Braves pull trades and acquire a Haniger and a Kluber or Bumgarner.  Do they go after a Kimbrel?  

In this day and age, it's better to have four possible closers than go all-in on a single player. Our starters go five innings, six at most. I doubt we blow a lot of payroll on one arm. 

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Just now, jidady said:

In this day and age, it's better to have four possible closers than go all-in on a single player. Our starters go five innings, six at most. I doubt we blow a lot of payroll on one arm. 

I love Kimbrel but give me Britton and Robertson then watch out.  

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41 minutes ago, ATLBrave said:

Anderson has got to be about as untouchable as it gets, unless a DeGrom-level talent is coming back. The kid has arguably the highest ceiling on any player in the minors, offensively or on the mound. 

 

29 minutes ago, jidady said:

Yeah, ignoring the toolsy discussions, he only gave up 6.6 hits per 9 innings this year against 10.7 strikeouts. And he's only given up 3 homers in 254 career innings pitched. I despised that pick when we did it, but he is checking all of the boxes for a potential top-notch MLB starter. The guys with legit stuff don't get squared up in the minors. So far, that's Anderson.

Ok. Well unless we're planning on running a 10-man rotation out there one day we don't have room for everyone and to get someone as good as Haniger you've got to give up something of value. Anderson is how many years away from the majors? If you keep him then who do you trade? I get frustrated by this talk that we can't trade off some of these arms because of their potential without accounting for the fact that at least half of them won't pan out in the majors. We've all seen enough baseball in our lives to see how fragile prospects can be and know that they won't all pan out. It's why if the opportunity to make a move for a proven big league player, you think long and hard about pulling the trigger even if it means potentially giving up the next Jacob deGrom 4 years down the road. By signing Donaldson AA put it out there that it's time to win now, Haniger is a win-now player, Anderson isn't. Anderson is a win in 3 or 4 years player. Who knows what the Braves rotation will look like in 3 or 4 years. Unless you've got the magical crystal ball, none of us know.

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7 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

 

Ok. Well unless we're planning on running a 10-man rotation out there one day we don't have room for everyone and to get someone as good as Haniger you've got to give up something of value. Anderson is how many years away from the majors? If you keep him then who do you trade? I get frustrated by this talk that we can't trade off some of these arms because of their potential without accounting for the fact that at least half of them won't pan out in the majors. We've all seen enough baseball in our lives to see how fragile prospects can be and know that they won't all pan out. It's why if the opportunity to make a move for a proven big league player, you think long and hard about pulling the trigger even if it means potentially giving up the next Jacob deGrom 4 years down the road. By signing Donaldson AA put it out there that it's time to win now, Haniger is a win-now player, Anderson isn't. Anderson is a win in 3 or 4 years player. Who knows what the Braves rotation will look like in 3 or 4 years. Unless you've got the magical crystal ball, none of us know.

Anderson could literally crack the rotation this year. That’s not 3-4 years down the road. 

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12 minutes ago, ATLBrave said:

Anderson could literally crack the rotation this year. That’s not 3-4 years down the road. 

If he cracks the rotation this year then who is he replacing? Especially if the Braves go out and get a proven work horse?

  • Folty
  • Newcomb
  • Gausman
  • Fried
  • Touki
  • Wright
  • Soroka
  • Teheran

That's 8 guys not counting a trade for a proven TOP starter. If Anderson cracks the rotation this year then that's a problem. That means the season is in shambles due to injury. He's got only 4 games above high A ball as well, no way the Braves rush him to the majors in 2019. Like I said, if that happens, the season is a mess. AA has already said that if he was in control back in 2016 we would have never seen Dansby that year because he's more conservative with promoting guys up the ladder.

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17 minutes ago, ATLBrave said:

Anderson could literally crack the rotation this year. That’s not 3-4 years down the road. 

Right, he's already made four starts in AA and will be 21 this year. His ETA is 2020 at the latest, 2019 in all likelihood.

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Just now, jidady said:

Right, he's already made four starts in AA and will be 21 this year. His ETA is 2020 at the latest, 2019 in all likelihood.

Again, how? Just 4 games above A+ ball, AA has said in the past that he's more cautious with promotions, and we don't have a spot for him.

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3 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Again, how? Just 4 games above A+ ball, AA has said in the past that he's more cautious with promotions, and we don't have a spot for him.

The Braves had 13 different players start a game this past season. And there's always a spot for someone who can play.

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Just now, jidady said:

The Braves had 13 different players start a game this past season. And there's always a spot for someone who can play.

It's not a good thing to have 13 different pitchers start a game in a season. One of the reasons the Braves had that many different starters was due to injury and under performance and then eventually the decision to give guys rest at different spots in the season because they needed it since they weren't used to pitching full MLB seasons. That will be the case for 2019 as well depending on who's in the rotation at the beginning of the season. Soroka for example is not going to be given 30 starts and 200 innings, especially coming off the shoulder injury. So that means he'll need rest at different times. We also learned that Newcomb needs rest at different points in the season to maintain his effectiveness. But naturally you'd want to make it through the season with fewer than 10 starting pitchers.

That still doesn't answer my question, or contradict AA's position on handling of prospects with care with promoting them up the ladder. Why exactly would you want to rush Anderson to the majors in 2019? We've seen what happens with guys that are rushed, they usually take longer to find their footing in the majors. I don't want that with Anderson. I want him to hit the ground running. So, yeah, I was wrong in my assessment that he was 3-4 years down the road. That still doesn't change the point I was trying to make in that sooner or later you need to trade off some of these guys for immediate impact players. You can't horde them all. That was the point I was trying to make and Anderson just happened to be the example, even if it was a poor one. Point is still the same and neither you nor @ATLBrave have addressed that one adequately.

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1 hour ago, jidady said:

Yeah, ignoring the toolsy discussions, he only gave up 6.6 hits per 9 innings this year against 10.7 strikeouts. And he's only given up 3 homers in 254 career innings pitched. I despised that pick when we did it, but he is checking all of the boxes for a potential top-notch MLB starter. The guys with legit stuff don't get squared up in the minors. So far, that's Anderson.

He came in #5 for is, but he was a lot closer to #1 than #6 if that makes any sense. 

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16 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

It's not a good thing to have 13 different pitchers start a game in a season.

Boston had 11. So did the Dodgers and the Brewers. The Cubs and Yankees had 12. 

This was the lesson the Braves learned in 2014, you need at least 8 actual major league quality starters, preferably 10. And even that may not be enough. This is why you stockpile arms. If Gwinnett starts the season with something like Toussaint, Wright, Wilson, Allard, and Weigel this is a good thing because it it likely all of them will be needed. 
 

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