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Ryan missed the elite boat...

93 posts in this topic

29 minutes ago, ParanoidAndroid said:

They said the same exact thing about Ryan, Brady, Brees, Rodgers after Cam's rookie year. After RG3, Luck, and Wilson came onto the scene. When Kaepernick gashed Green Bay and us on the way to the SB.   To be elite, you have to be great over the course of your career.

 

Remember when that guy wanted to trade Ryan for Locker straight up? 

A few held their water on Locker, but then went all in for Tyrod Taylor. :lol:

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Simple question - would you be willing to trade Ryan today for Mahomes today?

Mahomes-has Hunt to run behind him, Kelce as his security blanket, and plenty of WR's.  He is also benefiting from the league not knowing him fully yet.  Denver actually held him down most of the first 3 quarters last night.  He has lots of potential and a cheap contract (for a QB) right now but you really are gambling this will continue in the future.

Ryan-older yes but by QB standards, he has several more years of playing time left.  He has been through the worst and best of times including games like this past Sunday.  He probably would be undefeated if in Jacksonville right now and just needs a defense to hold the opposition down.  He does not have a ring yet but Brees was not young when he got his (nor was Peyton).

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2 minutes ago, jlrfalcon said:

Simple question - would you be willing to trade Ryan today for Mahomes today?

Mahomes-has Hunt to run behind him, Kelce as his security blanket, and plenty of WR's.  He is also benefiting from the league not knowing him fully yet.  Denver actually held him down most of the first 3 quarters last night.  He has lots of potential and a cheap contract (for a QB) right now but you really are gambling this will continue in the future.

Ryan-older yes but by QB standards, he has several more years of playing time left.  He has been through the worst and best of times including games like this past Sunday.  He probably would be undefeated if in Jacksonville right now and just needs a defense to hold the opposition down.  He does not have a ring yet but Brees was not young when he got his (nor was Peyton).

I don't understand. 

Why didn't you list the weapons for Matt Ryan like you did Mahomes?

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Matt Ryan is an elite QB. It's a stupid argument. He will be a HOFer. He's been good his whole career. He's Never had the olines Brady has had, he's never got the calls to protect him that other QBs get, he takes shots and delivers the ball. He's tough and he is ice. He's won games for us late so many times. He's put us in postition to win late in games and had to stand on the sidelines watching a trash defense blow it for 10yrs. He's had 4 OCs and had to relearn everything over and over. Dealing with that and playing how he has, is outstanding. Look at all the other elite QBs, they have spent their careers in one , maybe two systems at the most. They have had long periods in those systems. Matt has not.

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Can someone define elite? What is the complete criteria. What is the minimum number of starts to qualify?

  • Pass Yards per Game?
  • Pass Yards per Attempt?
  • TD%
  • INT%
  • Passer Rating?
  • QBR?
  • Game Winning Drives?
  • Comeback Wins?
  • Winning% As A Starter?
  • Pro Bowls?
  • All Pros?
  • MVPs?
  • Super Bowl MVPs?
  • Lombardies?

Let's figure that out and go from there.

I believe being elite means having good numbers (TD-int ratio, career passing yards, QBR, passer rating, etc.) on a consistent basis combined with being clutch when it matters most despite all the good or bad numbers you put up.

I also look at an elite QB still being good despite being very limited with the talent they have around them vs the ones who have to rely on good talent around them to be good.

Playoff wins are important, the numbers you put up in playoff wins, and once again being clutch in the playoffs when it matters most. I'll never weigh elite status on a Super Bowl win like too many delusional people do. Having a bunch of Super Bowl wins just mean you had a lot of playoff success in general combined with a great coaching staff, GM, and personnel.

Edited by mqg96

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5 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Can someone define elite? What is the criteria? What is the minimum number of starts to qualify?

  • Pass Yards per Game?
  • Pass Yards per Attempt?
  • TD%
  • INT%
  • Passer Rating?
  • QBR?
  • Game Winning Drives?
  • Comeback Wins?
  • Winning% As A Starter?
  • Pro Bowls?
  • All Pros?
  • MVPs?
  • Super Bowl MVPs?
  • Lombardies?

Let's figure that out first and go from there.

 

Sadly, it can't really be defind. It is a really subjective buzzword that gets thrown around.

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You mean the most passing yards in his first 10 years boat? Didn't miss that.

You mean the 3rd most passing TDs in the first 10 years boat? Didn't miss that.

You mean the top 15 all time passing yardage boat? Didn't miss that.

You mean the top 10 all time in INT % boat? Not that one either.

You mean the top 17 all time in passing TDs boat? 

You mean the top 8 all time in completion % boat?

You mean the 9th all time in Game winning drives boat?

You mean the top 17 all time in playoff passing TDs  boat? Cause, guess what, he didn't miss that one either.

You mean the having other QBs call you elite  boat? Didn't miss that one.

Oh forgot,

 

You mean the QB that's currently top ten in completion%, yards, TDs, yards per game,QB Rating, number of 1st downs,  Percentage of throws for a 1st down, 40+ yards completions boat?

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22 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Can someone define elite? What is the criteria? What is the minimum number of starts to qualify?

  • Pass Yards per Game?
  • Pass Yards per Attempt?
  • Yards In The Air?
  • TD%
  • INT%
  • Passer Rating?
  • QBR?
  • Game Winning Drives?
  • Comeback Wins?
  • Winning% As A Starter?
  • Pro Bowls?
  • All Pros?
  • MVPs?
  • Super Bowl MVPs?
  • Lombardies?

Let's figure that out first and go from there.

I used this as a basis.  Ryan vs ????  The numbers are very similiar with player X having more seasons under his belt than Ryan.

 

  • Pass Yards per Game?                 261                     266

  • Pass Yards per Attempt?               7.5                      7.5

  • TD%                                              5.6                      4.7

  • INT%                                            1.8                        2.2

  • Passer Rating?                            97.5                      93.9

  • Game Winning Drives?                34                         35

  • Comeback Wins?                        42                          26

  • Winning% As A Starter?             198-57-0                96-66-0

  • Pro Bowls?                                    13                         4

  • All Pros?                                         3                          1

  • MVPs?                                             3                          1

 

Ryan is on the right....Tom Brady is player X

 

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The term "elite" is a combination of statistics and perception.

You can ask anyone outside of the Atlanta market to name the current "elite quarterbacks" in the NFL. The names will go as follows off top:

  • Brady
  • Rodgers
  • Brees

That's it. Now the combination of statistics and perception. They all have ridiculous statistical numbers and Super Bowl rings under their own individual team circumstances. Aaron Rodgers won with an injured/depleted team and one of the worse defenses of all Super Bowl winning teams. Just stats and facts. Now perception. These 3 QBS are the only current QBS that REGARDLESS of the circumstances the team is going through, i.e. injuries, talent, suspensions, etc, as long as they are behind center they are ALWAYS given the benefit of the doubt to provide a "W". Just fact. They may not win every game, but every game they are favored because they are behind center versus the other QB.

Matt Ryan is a solid quarterback. But he's only working with half of the equation, the statistical side. Perception is not in favor of Matt Ryan OUTSIDE of the fanbase. Just isn't. Matt has high statistical numbers, as he should. He's stayed very healthy as long as he's been in the league and has had top to elite weapons around him for the most part of his career. He should have crazy numbers. 

So trying to argue whether Matt Ryan is "elite" is rather pointless. Because if someone has to say "...if he had this", or "...if Shanny did this", or "...if this or that" it negates that argument because the (3) quarterbacks above are always favored regardless of where their team as a whole is during that given time. If Matt gets this team deep into the playoffs averaging 35+ points a game, it's another MVP season. But I think would definitely help that perception side of the equation to then be able to bring up "elite".

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Just now, A Pimp Named Slickback™ said:

Doesn't matter either way. Not like Ryan is the only QB with weapons.

Don't get the point. 

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Mahomes looks great... but I love how quick people jump on.. RGIII greatest rookie ever aaaaaaaah! Top jersey sales aaaaaaaah! Where did he go?

countless other are the greatest! But fizzle after a good year.

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Just now, A Pimp Named Slickback™ said:

The point is every QB has weapons. Yet some how it's tossed around that Ryan is nothing w/o weapons around him.

I don't think every QB has weapons. 

Bills? Yikes.

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1 hour ago, BLM said:

Remember when Ryan was supposed to be part of the next elite QB class after Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Big Ben go off into the sunset.  Looks like Ryan should have come out a bit later.  Goff and Maholmes will likely carry the torch for the next face of the NFL...

Goff? Seriously? 

Like FFS, what exactly is "elite"? Can you be "elite" in a team sport, unlike in an individual sport, say, like golf or tennis?

FWIW, I think Ryan is, in fact, in the upper echelon of QBs. He has flaws just like the best of them. I got him in the top 25% of the league amongst starting QBs, which would mean, what, top 8?

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7 minutes ago, WisFalcon said:

Mahomes looks great... but I love how quick people jump on.. RGIII greatest rookie ever aaaaaaaah! Top jersey sales aaaaaaaah! Where did he go?

countless other are the greatest! But fizzle after a good year.

Yea, I crowned Mahomes last night but sometimes we jump the gun. It's still waaaay too early for crowning him. It's only been 4 games and at the beginning of the season to boot. I remember when Prescott was supposed to the next class of NFC QBs. What happened?

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1 minute ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

Yeah, I always hated that excuse. Like Joey Harrington can do the same as Ice because he has the the same weapons? 

It's not a good argument honestly. Brees has weapons, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Eli, Rivers, etc. Not sure why it's always brought up against Ryan b/c he has Julio, Roddy, TG, over the years. Good to great QBs always have weapons to use.

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I'm not sure how OP is tying Matt to QBs drafted from 1998 - 2004 while also tying him to QBs drafted in 2015+

What, was Steve Young too far back? 

And FTR, Matt Ryan is the second best QB of his "generation" to the extent that QB generations are a thing...

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