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Is Duke Riley done?


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9 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

This is where there’s still a small glimpse of hope for me. Quinn has proven himself in terms of picking the right guys for his scheme. Even Collins wasn’t bad, it was more maturity and personal stuff with him. If Riley is still on the team, then there is something Quinn likes about him

Quinn also can be loyal to a fault. I personally consider his choice to keep Morris as receivers coach, despite a clear decline in execution at that position, as an example. I think he's helping a friend get his next HC gig because he is "his guy." He'll get better.  Right?

He is a great elevator of talent. However, he can be "clingy" with his pet projects. 

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12 hours ago, vel said:

I'm close to moving on from Duke. He severely lacks awareness of any kind, game, situation, or otherwise. He constantly tries to do entirely too much during plays instead of just focusing on his job. And he plays like he's in drills instead of playing football. He's not a football player. 

There are a few in particular that drive me nuts. One was the screen play to McCaffrey that went for 11 yards. Seems harmless, but the play call was man. Instead of going straight to CMC, he for some reason decides to try and jam the TE with the other LB and gets caught in traffic and leaves CMC wide open. 

Another was the scramble from Cam when Kazee got ejected. Duke is the rat or spy. Not sure if it was Cover 1 or Spy. Either way, his job is the middle of the field and not let Cam get a free run. Instead, he again jams the crossing route that was sufficiently covered by Devondre. He literally loses his entire responsibility, opening the lane for Cam to scramble. If he does his job, we probably get a sack. 

Later in the game, Foye gets in the game and looks completely comfortable and just does his job. Nothing spectacular, but he doesn't embarrass himself. Again, similar play later, CMC leaks out, Foye avoids the traffic and mans him up cleanly. Like it's not hard. Just be smart and be a football player. 

Bump. My co worker is a lsu fan. He watched duke play there. He told me duke is dumb as ****. After last sunday i really believe it now.

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3 hours ago, jlrfalcon said:

This may be more about Quinn liking himself more than liking Riley.  If Quinn (and Dimitroff) lets Riley go after only 1+ seasons, it is an admission he was a bad 3rd round pick and really makes the 2017 draft class less successful:

McKinley - appears to be a good pick, but he might be becoming an injury-prone disaster

Riley - nowhere near his fellow LSU Tiger Deion

Harlow - was hidden on practice squad, so this failure was hidden well

Kazee - a possible success but not helped with targeting call last week

Hill - a failure brought back to try to squeeze some success out of this draft class

Saubert - had a couple of preseason moments but yet to be anything big

This entire class could end coming down to only 1 or 2 players being around next year, so Quinn is going to do all he can to try to get some production out of Riley.  Quinn does not want to endure answering questions about letting Riley go to the media nor does he want to give Blank another reason to consider replacing him.

Kazee is going to be a huge steal once he stays in the field. Saubert is coming along as planned for a 5th round pick. He will make a few plays this year similar to preseason. Takk is on his way to being one of the best players out of the 1st rd. Duke will likely stick as a backup/special teams player if he doesbt develop and Hill was never meant to be list, cincy signed him to active roster and we brought him back to our active roster so not sure how thats a fail? Riley and harlow are the weak links but its not abnormal to miss on some players especially when you consider our success rate the last 4 drafts... 

i think you are underselling this 2nd yr draft class quite a bit

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2 hours ago, Da_Truth said:

That mic'd up video is a joke right? Duke needs to go on the practice squad with that display of "tackling"? Who's drafting these guys?  What happened to the competitive, physical characteristics they look for? There's nothing physical about a lot of guys on this team--offense and defense.  

Such as who? Outside of duke and maybe beasley who is a one trick pony who isn’t physical on the defense? 

Neal, Allen, kazee, Poole, takk, grady, Campbell, jones are all aggressive.. they are players quinn identified as having those qualities.. they are the heart and soul of the D. Soon senat and hopefully foye will join that group. Tru and rocky hold their own as holdovers from the old regime. 

Our offense has always been finess and speed with physicality sprinkled in.. Schraeder (pre concussion) Mack, Jones, Freeman (pre concussions) sanu, ryan all possess that physical trait. Dont act like its not there

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1 hour ago, SkerFalcon8710 said:

Such as who? Outside of duke and maybe beasley who is a one trick pony who isn’t physical on the defense? 

Neal, Allen, kazee, Poole, takk, grady, Campbell, jones are all aggressive.. they are players quinn identified as having those qualities.. they are the heart and soul of the D. Soon senat and hopefully foye will join that group. Tru and rocky hold their own as holdovers from the old regime. 

Our offense has always been finess and speed with physicality sprinkled in.. Schraeder (pre concussion) Mack, Jones, Freeman (pre concussions) sanu, ryan all possess that physical trait. Dont act like its not there

First let me say, when I think of a physical player (a mentality, an attitude) it's one who consistently fights through blocks and arrives to lay the wood with the shoulder and snatch the opponent to the ground with every hit. Not this hand cat scratching, high shoulder pad grabbing, allowing yourself to be JACKED up and being held stuff.  

I don't see enough fighting spirit from:  Alford, Allen, Beasley, Campbell, Crawford, McClain, Oliver (still learning but don't see it yet), Riley, Shelby, Trufant, and Blidi Wreh.  That's just the defense.  

Problem is Quinn inherited a lot of these players and even the ones he's brought in are missing the mark. Pete Carroll built the Seahawks defense so I don't know that Quinn will ever build a similar defense here.  He's trying but it's not close.

You see these guys differently?

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15 hours ago, Vandy said:

I agree completely, but that’s not my point. Moore made that catch wide open 15-20 yards downfield behind the LBers. The better prevent scheme is make them dink and dunk you with 5-7 yard throws in front of LBers which eats up the clock, not behind them which uses very little clock.

Right but the scheme didnt try to funnel the pass to a spot 17 yards in the middle of the field.....Duke just played the coverage poorly. He's gotta be good enough to feel that route and drift a bit. He didnt. Which left the window open. Thats not on the scheme, thats on the player. 

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16 hours ago, SkerFalcon8710 said:

Duke lacks coverage instincts.. hopefully they will come with reps. He did “ok” diagnosing run plays and getting off his blocks. Ill give him 3 weeks.. at that point he will have what? 9 starts? Thats when the lights really started coming on for jones and Campbell their rookie years.. 

my biggest gripe with duke is it looks like hes running in mud.. his body and strides are so drawn out and dramatic when running after a ball carrier. Just looks incredibly unnatural.. maybe its the blonde mullet? Idk 

just fix it 

He looks way too deliberate to me. Like he "knows" what he's supposed to do but doesnt feel it at all. Early on in the game he let CMC catch a delayed release to the left because Duke watched him, bought the delay, and then TURNED AROUND TO DROP INTO HIS ZONE. Like...all the way around. Like "Hey guys, I'm just gonna go back here okay!?!" 

He's going to get probably the next 3-4 weeks but his leash is shorter than anyone's on the team, IMO. And if we dont see strides over the rest of this season, I think we cut him and move on. Sucks to lose have a 3rd rounder not work out but so be it. 

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On 9/17/2018 at 6:29 PM, falconidae said:

Or, you know,  you could hope the light comes on for him and he plays well, because, you know, it makes the falcons better.

I know the man hasn't played well, but he hasn't played 400 snaps in his career, and less than 50 as a MLB.

Swear some of you want him to fail just so you can be right,

 

Edit: just got the snap counts for the game [thanks @Tim Mazetti] 58 snaps at MLB.

Yes, it's understandable that many here want the light to come on for Riley, but the problem is he's only playing with about a 40 watt bulb and everybody else out there is at 400 watts in comparison.

I don't want Riley to fail, but I'm going to predict the Falcons don't win another game with Riley as the starting MLB for this defense.

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12 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Right but the scheme didnt try to funnel the pass to a spot 17 yards in the middle of the field.....Duke just played the coverage poorly. He's gotta be good enough to feel that route and drift a bit. He didnt. Which left the window open. Thats not on the scheme, thats on the player. 

Getting away from Duke for a minute, why does that kind of breakdown happen so often when they go to prevent/soft zone, whatever you want to call it? 

Cam basically doubles his YPA for the game in the last quarter and a half. Suddenly, in a defense that's supposed to prevent 15-20-40 yard throws, that's all you see. Why not just play the same defense that had built the 24-10 lead?

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Just now, falconidae said:

Getting away from Duke for a minute, why does that kind of breakdown happen so often when they go to prevent/soft zone, whatever you want to call it? 

Cam basically doubles his YPA for the game in the last quarter and a half. Suddenly, in a defense that's supposed to prevent 15-20-40 yard throws, that's all you see. Why not just play the same defense that had built the 24-10 lead?

Pass rush wasnt getting enough push. If you're going to drop 7 and push 4, someone from the 4 has to force the ball out. Give any QB 4+ seconds to make a throw into 50 yards of open field covered by 7 zone defenders and he's going to make the throw. 

I agree, I'd rather them just play defense the way they also play defense. Now, that doesnt mean you go Cover 0 and beg for the deep shot....especially against Cam. But I do think we'd be better off using extra rushers in those situations. Especially given how well we've done using DBs on blitzes. 

When you're up two scores late, you arent playing the other team anymore....you're playing the clock. So I get why DQ does it. But this sort of thing happened in Seattle too. Its a function of the defense, unfortunately. I'd rather just have them lineup and play ball. Don't give them easy completions unless they're outlet/dump offs. 

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30 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

First let me say, when I think of a physical player (a mentality, an attitude) it's one who consistently fights through blocks and arrives to lay the wood with the shoulder and snatch the opponent to the ground with every hit. Not this hand cat scratching, high shoulder pad grabbing, allowing yourself to be JACKED up and being held stuff.  

I don't see enough fighting spirit from:  Alford, Allen, Beasley, Campbell, Crawford, McClain, Oliver (still learning but don't see it yet), Riley, Shelby, Trufant, and Blidi Wreh.  That's just the defense.  

Problem is Quinn inherited a lot of these players and even the ones he's brought in are missing the mark. Pete Carroll built the Seahawks defense so I don't know that Quinn will ever build a similar defense here.  He's trying but it's not close.

You see these guys differently?

5 of the guys you stated are dbs... and allen? Really dude is all heart on the field and never afraid to lay his body out for a hit when its presented. 

Wilson? You mean our 5/6th db? Stop reaching.

mcclain is about the only one you have so far, he has looked weak. 

I listed duke and Beasley as needing work. I have stated multiple times beasley doesnt have the mentality and is a one trick pony. Campbell is coming along great for a 5th rd lb. duke is another story but hes gonna have to learn on the fly now.

oliver on your list? Seriously? You know he hasnt played since preseason right? What exactly are you judging? 35 plays in preseason? 

What players did quinn inherit on the starting defense? Alford, trufant and allen? He literally drafted or signed the rest of the defense. Do you even know who is on our team or when they were drafted? 

Neal/kazee/poole - drafted

jones/campbell/foye/duke - drafted

jarret, takk, beasley, senat - drafted.

 

You must not remember the mike smith defenses and signings.. quinn is a god send for defensive talent. Missed on duke thats about it..

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48 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Right but the scheme didnt try to funnel the pass to a spot 17 yards in the middle of the field.....Duke just played the coverage poorly. He's gotta be good enough to feel that route and drift a bit. He didnt. Which left the window open. Thats not on the scheme, thats on the player. 

Yeah, we agree on duke, he played the coverage poorly all game, not just when we went to prevent.

I just hate seeing this D going to prevent, period. For whatever reason, those type of breakdowns in giving up huge plays seem to happen every time we do it, with Duke or whoever else. 

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man I swear at time it looks like Duke is purposely avoiding the tackle, the way he misses sometimes...wow! I mean it's like he's a high school LB against an NFL legend, haha!

 

I think the problem really lies in the fact that we really haven't seen DUKE flash yet! Ya know?

I mean, we have seen flashes from KAZEE and TAKK that give us some hope that they can make something of themselves in this league, they have plays I vividly remember. 

DUKE has no flash plays that I vividly remember; but there sure are a lot of bad ones that stand out. 

 

BTW - time for cap hog LIVITRE to go. We can't afford with the talent we need to sign to pay LIVITRE his contract when we aren't getting a solid return on that investment

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41 minutes ago, SkerFalcon8710 said:

5 of the guys you stated are dbs... and allen? Really dude is all heart on the field and never afraid to lay his body out for a hit when its presented. It doesn't matter what their positions are.  They are soft. Allen hits when he wants to, but it's every now and then.

Wilson? You mean our 5/6th db? Stop reaching.  He's on the team isn't he?  Who brought him here?  Ain't no reach.

mcclain is about the only one you have so far, he has looked weak.  You think Crawford and Shelby any better?  No.

I listed duke and Beasley as needing work. I have stated multiple times beasley doesnt have the mentality and is a one trick pony. Campbell is coming along great for a 5th rd lb. duke is another story but hes gonna have to learn on the fly now.  They don't need any work...they're both soft and weak.  No heart and no fight in either one.

oliver on your list? Seriously? You know he hasnt played since preseason right? What exactly are you judging? 35 plays in preseason?  What little I have watched of him hasn't been good as far as playing physical.  That's what we're talking about here.  

What players did quinn inherit on the starting defense? Alford, trufant and allen?  I mentioned the three amigos.  They should have been replaced by now. I guess he let Dimitroff talk him in to how good they are.  He literally drafted or signed the rest of the defense. Do you even know who is on our team or when they were drafted? 

Neal (can't cover or tackle consistently) /kazee (plays with the right mindset) /poole (can't cover; good in the box) - drafted

jones (getting better)/campbell (looks lost at times; doesn't arrive with bad intentions)/foye (too early to tell what he his)/duke (big time reach drafting him) - drafted

jarret (physical, gets after it), takk (physical, gets after it, fights with OL), beasley (fast but that's about it; no fight and gives up too easy), senat (still early but I like his potential) - drafted.

 

You must not remember the mike smith defenses and signings.. Oh I remember and they were horrible. quinn is a god send for defensive talent. Quinn may know what he wants, but there's still a disconnect between him, TD and scouts.  Someone's not on the same page according to what Quinn says he wants in a player.  Missed on duke thats about it..

What you mostly see as good physical players I don't.  You're not physical sometime, it's all the time.  I'm from the old school of NFL tough, physical, bust you in the mouth players.  There are still players coming into the league with this style...we're not even hitting 8 out of 10 we select that are physically tough or imposing.  But the NFL is doing everything they can to water down the game.

 

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14 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

 

Please do tell who we should have replaced trufant and alford with? Even allen for that matter. Let me guess you want eric reid, washed up richard sherman and anyone from 2012 seahawks.. i think you are reaching with your assessment of some of these players. You can thank the nfl for watering itself down. This “arrive with bad intentions” is becoming less common thanks to the nfl policy on tackling. Our players are tought a different style of tackling to get the player down and limit yards after contact. If you want Willy Mo that fine, i loved him too but for every bone crunching play he missed just as many that turned into huge plays. You can thank the nfl and college for not getting what you want at every position. Its not gonna happen. The Seahawks defense is a shell of itself.. carrol is still there yet where is his monsterous defense from 2012? If its all him and the gm then where is the replacement talent because its severely lacking.

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13 hours ago, vel said:

I'm close to moving on from Duke. He severely lacks awareness of any kind, game, situation, or otherwise. He constantly tries to do entirely too much during plays instead of just focusing on his job. And he plays like he's in drills instead of playing football. He's not a football player. 

There are a few in particular that drive me nuts. One was the screen play to McCaffrey that went for 11 yards. Seems harmless, but the play call was man. Instead of going straight to CMC, he for some reason decides to try and jam the TE with the other LB and gets caught in traffic and leaves CMC wide open. 

Another was the scramble from Cam when Kazee got ejected. Duke is the rat or spy. Not sure if it was Cover 1 or Spy. Either way, his job is the middle of the field and not let Cam get a free run. Instead, he again jams the crossing route that was sufficiently covered by Devondre. He literally loses his entire responsibility, opening the lane for Cam to scramble. If he does his job, we probably get a sack. 

Later in the game, Foye gets in the game and looks completely comfortable and just does his job. Nothing spectacular, but he doesn't embarrass himself. Again, similar play later, CMC leaks out, Foye avoids the traffic and mans him up cleanly. Like it's not hard. Just be smart and be a football player. 

Well Quinn/Pioli put his sorry *** on the draft board, for Dimi to pick him so.....................Im still trying to figure out what they saw in him. Its Akeem Dent all over again...

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16 minutes ago, zekeyboy1 said:

Well Quinn/Pioli put his sorry *** on the draft board, for Dimi to pick him so.....................Im still trying to figure out what they saw in him. Its Akeem Dent all over again...

He's not even that. A. Dent was actually pretty stout vs the run. He knew what he doing with his run fits. Riley still looks like he is trying to "figure it out" instead of diagnosing and attacking. I would actually be ok if he was gambling and trying to jump routes or abandoning his gap to get a TFL on RBs. He is just seeing things slow, instincts aren't kicking in, still over pursuing, still missing tackles. I know its his 2nd year. I know he starting at MLB. I know he has talent but he is continuing to trend negatively or not at all. Its like Quinn thinks this guy is turning the corner weekly but he isnt making plays or even remotely close sometimes. Kazee Flashed, Debo Flashed, Keke Flashed **** even Rico 1st year he flashed. Duke hasnt flashed to where anybody would say...if he does this or that consistently he will be good. He doesnt do anything consistently well. Its tiring. Ill take the lumps with Foye or Corey Nelson 

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51 minutes ago, SkerFalcon8710 said:

Please do tell who we should have replaced trufant and alford with? I had no one particular in mind.  Just wanted more consistency and physicality at those positions.  That would be left up to our fearless leaders DQ and TD. Even allen for that matter. Let me guess you want eric reid, washed up richard sherman and anyone from 2012 seahawks.. i think you are reaching with your assessment of some of these players. I'm an aggressive person by nature.  Have always been physical in any sport I played and grew up in an era of football that did the same.  When a HC tells me where going to be Fast & Physical I get excited and anxious to see our players bring it to the field.  Especially after years of Smitty and his defenses. You can thank the nfl for watering itself down. I'm beginning to think they are particularly targeting Falcons players, e.g., Neal and Kazee now.  If this continues I'll stop watching. This “arrive with bad intentions” is becoming less common thanks to the nfl policy on tackling. Glad you brought this up.  It just means hit them when you arrive, grab the thigh closest to you and take them down (rugby tackle).  Problem is DQ went through teaching the Rugby style when he arrived and it all went out the window the minute our guys hit the field.  Tells me they don't practice it enough to become second nature. Our players are tought a different style of tackling to get the player down and limit yards after contact. If you want Willy Mo that fine, i loved him too but for every bone crunching play he missed just as many that turned into huge plays. I'm not talking bone crunching on every play, just have the mindset that you're going to take them down (the right way) each and every time.  You can thank the nfl and college for not getting what you want at every position. Its not gonna happen. You might be right, but I see other teams with larger DLs who are just as fast and physical. So I know they're coming out of college.  The Seahawks defense is a shell of itself. Yes now they are. But they still have good size and speed throughout. carrol is still there yet where is his monsterous defense from 2012? He's not calling the defense and neither is DQ (probably the best DC they had--ranked #1 each year he was there).  Just shows you can have the players but if you don't have the right DC it doesn't matter. If its all him and the gm then where is the replacement talent because its severely lacking. Are you talking Falcons or Seahawks?  So much depends on who you can bring in...availability of FA player you want or draft positioning.  BUT, if it requires you to sit with scouts and front office and show them examples of actual players that you want to see are physical, fast and solid tacklers in college/FA then that's what they need to do.  I've read that it's been done, but again something is getting lost in translation when they actually sign some of these players.  Besides, TD seems to not want to bring in big money FAs who will be game changers; he'd rather build through the draft and complement with "good" (Mack & Freeney only two IMO) players.  

 

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1 hour ago, Stryka said:

He's not even that. A. Dent was actually pretty stout vs the run. He knew what he doing with his run fits. Riley still looks like he is trying to "figure it out" instead of diagnosing and attacking. I would actually be ok if he was gambling and trying to jump routes or abandoning his gap to get a TFL on RBs. He is just seeing things slow, instincts aren't kicking in, still over pursuing, still missing tackles. I know its his 2nd year. I know he starting at MLB. I know he has talent but he is continuing to trend negatively or not at all. Its like Quinn thinks this guy is turning the corner weekly but he isnt making plays or even remotely close sometimes. Kazee Flashed, Debo Flashed, Keke Flashed **** even Rico 1st year he flashed. Duke hasnt flashed to where anybody would say...if he does this or that consistently he will be good. He doesnt do anything consistently well. Its tiring. Ill take the lumps with Foye or Corey Nelson 

Yeah I agree. Dent was better. I just used him as an example because he was also a wasted 3rd rounder. Like Chevis, Owens, Riley, Holmes, etc............... lol. 

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