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Is Duke Riley done?


RazorWing
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4 hours ago, falconidae said:

Not trying to sugarcoat it, just trying to add some balance here.

On that long TD, there were 3 falcons around the guy when he caught it, only one of those players is getting raked over the coals for allowing the TD. It's not "3 falcons players missed a tackle", it's  "Riley missed a tackle"

There were a few plays where he did his job. Nobody is talking about them.

Man hasn't played 300 snaps of football yet. He's had one game  as a MLB. And everything he does wrong is correctable with film study and experience.Quinn apparently likes him a lot.

I'm hoping that means Riley is doing the film work and looks much better in practice and that translates to the real game soon. 

If he starts against the Saints, I hope that we see improvement. More plays where he does his job, fewer bad angles. 

Well my friend, to your point the board definitely needs balance when it comes to The Duke. It's a lynch mob right now. 

Richard's was the most responsible party of the Moore TD. But Duke sure didn't help any.

He can improve, but to me he's just not good enough to be a starting LBer in NFL. Let him be a backup and special teams demon. But he will be starting against Aints, and I'm afraid that could get even uglier exposing his poor instincts. 

And if I had his ear, I would tell him to stay the **** off social media and try and let his play do his talking. It's not helping his cause at all. But that's just me, an old codger who is set in his ways. :ninja:

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15 minutes ago, stizz said:

We were used to him missing tackles and take bad angles, but he pulled a new trick out of his hat by setting screens on his own teammates. If he has any field awareness at all Kazee doesn't get ejected. 

He is mind boggling bad and there's no around it. What's bizarre is that there was nothing on his college tape where you'd think he'd be this awful.

Actually, there was. I saw it and said so when we drafted him a couple rounds too soon. Board as a whole jumped all over me for saying it too at the time. 

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15 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Well my friend, to your point the board definitely needs balance when it comes to The Duke. It's a lynch mob right now. 

Richard's was the most responsible party of the Moore TD. But Duke sure didn't help any.

He can improve, but to me he's just not good enough to be a starting LBer in NFL. Let him be a backup and special teams demon. But he will be starting against Aints, and I'm afraid that could get even uglier exposing his poor instincts. 

And if I had his ear, I would tell him to stay the **** off social media and try and let his play do his talking. It's not helping his cause at all. But that's just me, an old codger who is set in his ways. :ninja:

Yeah, Only reason I'm holding out hope is that Quinn loves him, which, I hope means that he practices much better than he plays and the game will slow down for him soon.

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30 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Richard's was the most responsible party of the Moore TD. But Duke sure didn't help any.

Well it's true that Richard's tackle attempt was equally as ugly as Duke, it was Duke who blew the coverage so badly. 

Moore curled right behind him and was literally standing right behind Duke when the ball was released. Duke was standing flat footed staring at Cam completely unaware of Moore.  That's why when Quinn was asked in the post game presser about what lessons there were to be learned from the play, he specifically mentioned Duke's awareness of the route.

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10 hours ago, stizz said:

In the few snaps we saw of Foye, all he did was mirror CMC, something Riley couldn't do without dropping back into zone and setting screens on his own teammates.

All we need is average from Foye and I think he'll give us that because Drew Brees will be rubbing his hands like dinner is ready if he sees Duke out there on the field.

Drew Brees will be rubbing his hands together because Debo isn't there it will matter not if Duke or Foye are there Brees will abuse them.

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1 hour ago, Peyton said:

Well it's true that Richard's tackle attempt was equally as ugly as Duke, it was Duke who blew the coverage so badly. 

Moore curled right behind him and was literally standing right behind Duke when the ball was released. Duke was standing flat footed staring at Cam completely unaware of Moore.  That's why when Quinn was asked in the post game presser about what lessons there were to be learned from the play, he specifically mentioned Duke's awareness of the route.

Actually after looking at it more closely, I blame the scheme more than the two players. We've been seeing this same lax 'prevent-D if ahead late-in-game' nonsense for 3 years running now out of Quinn's defenses..

 

 

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Actually after looking at it more closely, I blame the scheme more than the two players. We've been seeing this same lax 'prevent-D if ahead late-in-game' nonsense for 3 years running now out of Quinn's defenses..

 No ish, It's 24-10 late 3rd and the Panthers haven't  done squat. They go to that and they score 2 TDs.

What frustrates me is that the Falcons defense is effectively a prevent defense anyway. Whole dang idea is to keep the big play from happening, force short throws and tackle well. Why not keep doing that until late fourth?

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

Well my friend, to your point the board definitely needs balance when it comes to The Duke. It's a lynch mob right now. 

Richard's was the most responsible party of the Moore TD. But Duke sure didn't help any.

He can improve, but to me he's just not good enough to be a starting LBer in NFL. Let him be a backup and special teams demon. But he will be starting against Aints, and I'm afraid that could get even uglier exposing his poor instincts. 

And if I had his ear, I would tell him to stay the **** off social media and try and let his play do his talking. It's not helping his cause at all. But that's just me, an old codger who is set in his ways. :ninja:

Duke gave up another TD I haven't seen anyone mention when we were in zone coverage in the red zone. He was supposed to pass the TE off to Richards and play his zone. The receiver ran right to the void Duke created when he left to ultimately double the TE with Richards. At least Richards realized what went wrong and tried to rotate down, but by then he had no chance. Meanwhile, Duke is still face guarding in the back of the end zone; completely unaware that they just scored.

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20 minutes ago, falconidae said:

 No ish, It's 24-10 late 3rd and the Panthers haven't  done squat. They go to that and they score 2 TDs.

What frustrates me is that the Falcons defense is effectively a prevent defense anyway. Whole dang idea is to keep the big play from happening, force short throws and tackle well. Why not keep doing that until late fourth?

Exactly. Give up the the short passes in front of Lbers which eats alot of clock, nothing behind them like on the Moore TD.

SMH at Quinn/Manuel for 3 years now, still doing the same **** things. 

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7 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Exactly. Give up the the short passes in front of Lbers which eats alot of clock, nothing behind them like on the Moore TD.

SMH at Quinn/Manuel for 3 years now, still doing the same **** things. 

Bears did it in the Monday night game, 17-3 5 minutes into the 4th quarter. end up letting Seattle score twice.

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35 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Exactly. Give up the the short passes in front of Lbers which eats alot of clock, nothing behind them like on the Moore TD.

SMH at Quinn/Manuel for 3 years now, still doing the same **** things. 

But the scheme didnt result in DJ Moore getting "behind them." There were multiple defenders behind Moore when he catches that ball. That play is 80% on the hot trash tackling of two players and 20% on Duke not having any sense of playing middle zone coverage. He left the window wide open and when the ball went through, he couldnt have asked for a better situation to try to make a clean up tackle. And he blew it. 

 

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Duke lacks coverage instincts.. hopefully they will come with reps. He did “ok” diagnosing run plays and getting off his blocks. Ill give him 3 weeks.. at that point he will have what? 9 starts? Thats when the lights really started coming on for jones and Campbell their rookie years.. 

my biggest gripe with duke is it looks like hes running in mud.. his body and strides are so drawn out and dramatic when running after a ball carrier. Just looks incredibly unnatural.. maybe its the blonde mullet? Idk 

just fix it 

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1 hour ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

But the scheme didnt result in DJ Moore getting "behind them." There were multiple defenders behind Moore when he catches that ball. That play is 80% on the hot trash tackling of two players and 20% on Duke not having any sense of playing middle zone coverage. He left the window wide open and when the ball went through, he couldnt have asked for a better situation to try to make a clean up tackle. And he blew it. 

 

I agree completely, but that’s not my point. Moore made that catch wide open 15-20 yards downfield behind the LBers. The better prevent scheme is make them dink and dunk you with 5-7 yard throws in front of LBers which eats up the clock, not behind them which uses very little clock.

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11 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

They did miss tackles. Quinn was always talking about missed tackles. They’d come back the next week and be better. The only way to get better is live action. That’s why Campbell and Debo are so good. They played early and often. Duke has no choice but to get better each game Debo is out learning from the previous game. 

I hear ya, its not on the same level. There is definitely a difference.  Duke at times doesnt even look like he has any idea what to do. I just think they are more instinctive than duke is. Maybe they set the bar so high its difficult for me to see progress with him 

I just know he steuggled last year, ive seen some of those same struggles this year reguardless of what position he is playing.

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4 hours ago, MoundBred said:

Duke gave up another TD I haven't seen anyone mention when we were in zone coverage in the red zone. He was supposed to pass the TE off to Richards and play his zone. The receiver ran right to the void Duke created when he left to ultimately double the TE with Richards. At least Richards realized what went wrong and tried to rotate down, but by then he had no chance. Meanwhile, Duke is still face guarding in the back of the end zone; completely unaware that they just scored.

Yeah i remember that play it was bad. Duke might as well been playing safety. It made the corner look bad i think it was poole but duke left it wide open. He looked to be the only one playing man 

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4 hours ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

But the scheme didnt result in DJ Moore getting "behind them." There were multiple defenders behind Moore when he catches that ball. That play is 80% on the hot trash tackling of two players and 20% on Duke not having any sense of playing middle zone coverage. He left the window wide open and when the ball went through, he couldnt have asked for a better situation to try to make a clean up tackle. And he blew it. 

 

^This. The play was there. The Panthers should've had to eat another 2mins on that drive and it'd have been 31-24 with less than 2; forcing them to onside kick or game over at worst for situation. That's assuming they go on to score on that drive.

Let's start with Duke playing middle zone instead of sitting like a duck and not diagnosing where Cam is following the receiver heading into a zone he should be looking to defend; let alone the poor tackle attempt. Richards just also didn't clean up either.

Drive took under 2 min. Their 3 and out drives took that long lol.

Part of the problem being ignored is a mobile QB and the whole rush 4 or sometime 3+spy. Our pass rush was struggling to get to Cam once Takk went down and only Grady affected a couple plays in the critical moments. One the controversial no-call on intentional grounding.

It's mostly a function of the poor play by the players in coverage on top of less pass rush vs a team TRYING to go wide open pass offense down 2 scores with what should have been not enough time to tie it had we done our jobs.

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

I agree completely, but that’s not my point. Moore made that catch wide open 15-20 yards downfield behind the LBers. The better prevent scheme is make them dink and dunk you with 5-7 yard throws in front of LBers which eats up the clock, not behind them which uses very little clock.

Thing is Duke should've dropped into the area Moore caught the ball. We should've been giving the under stuff. It was poorly executed and Richards didn't clean it up. Moore was nearly untouched.

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5 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Thing is Duke should've dropped into the area Moore caught the ball. We should've been giving the under stuff. It was poorly executed and Richards didn't clean it up. Moore was nearly untouched.

Exactly. Duke blew the coverage then blew the tackle. That's about it. 

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I'm close to moving on from Duke. He severely lacks awareness of any kind, game, situation, or otherwise. He constantly tries to do entirely too much during plays instead of just focusing on his job. And he plays like he's in drills instead of playing football. He's not a football player. 

There are a few in particular that drive me nuts. One was the screen play to McCaffrey that went for 11 yards. Seems harmless, but the play call was man. Instead of going straight to CMC, he for some reason decides to try and jam the TE with the other LB and gets caught in traffic and leaves CMC wide open. 

Another was the scramble from Cam when Kazee got ejected. Duke is the rat or spy. Not sure if it was Cover 1 or Spy. Either way, his job is the middle of the field and not let Cam get a free run. Instead, he again jams the crossing route that was sufficiently covered by Devondre. He literally loses his entire responsibility, opening the lane for Cam to scramble. If he does his job, we probably get a sack. 

Later in the game, Foye gets in the game and looks completely comfortable and just does his job. Nothing spectacular, but he doesn't embarrass himself. Again, similar play later, CMC leaks out, Foye avoids the traffic and mans him up cleanly. Like it's not hard. Just be smart and be a football player. 

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8 hours ago, falconidae said:

Yeah, Only reason I'm holding out hope is that Quinn loves him, which, I hope means that he practices much better than he plays and the game will slow down for him soon.

This is where there’s still a small glimpse of hope for me. Quinn has proven himself in terms of picking the right guys for his scheme. Even Collins wasn’t bad, it was more maturity and personal stuff with him. If Riley is still on the team, then there is something Quinn likes about him

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6 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

This is where there’s still a small glimpse of hope for me. Quinn has proven himself in terms of picking the right guys for his scheme. Even Collins wasn’t bad, it was more maturity and personal stuff with him. If Riley is still on the team, then there is something Quinn likes about him

This may be more about Quinn liking himself more than liking Riley.  If Quinn (and Dimitroff) lets Riley go after only 1+ seasons, it is an admission he was a bad 3rd round pick and really makes the 2017 draft class less successful:

McKinley - appears to be a good pick, but he might be becoming an injury-prone disaster

Riley - nowhere near his fellow LSU Tiger Deion

Harlow - was hidden on practice squad, so this failure was hidden well

Kazee - a possible success but not helped with targeting call last week

Hill - a failure brought back to try to squeeze some success out of this draft class

Saubert - had a couple of preseason moments but yet to be anything big

This entire class could end coming down to only 1 or 2 players being around next year, so Quinn is going to do all he can to try to get some production out of Riley.  Quinn does not want to endure answering questions about letting Riley go to the media nor does he want to give Blank another reason to consider replacing him.

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