⚡Slumerican⚡

Greg Knapp’s role in Falcons’ offensive scheming might be larger than realized

124 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Good coaching doent make players play well.  It does, however, prepare them to play well.  Good coaching puts players in position to succeed.  The rest is on the players.

Shannahan knew how to use Gabriel and the rb’s in the passing game.  They Were put into a position to succeed and did so.  That did not happen last year.  Things will be better this year, though.  Fingers crossed

Gabe is a deep threat. I thought we ran very similar plays for Gabe last year as we did in 2016, the problem was he just wasn’t getting open. Reason being teams adjusted and utilized press coverages at the line of scrimmage on him, that’s how you shut small speed guys down. Which is why Sark ran the screens in attempting to get him the ball, because the long ball wasn’t there. 

Gabe missing much of preseason camp didn’t help. Seemed like his and ryan’s timing was off all year. 

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7 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Gabe is a deep threat. I thought we ran very similar plays for Gabe last year as we did in 2016, the problem was he just wasn’t getting open. Reason being teams adjusted and utilized press coverages at the line of scrimmage on him, that’s how you shut small speed guys down. Which is why Sark ran the screens in attempting to get him the ball, because the long ball wasn’t there. 

There was always going to be regression between 2016 and 2017. If Shanny had stayed he would have seen the same defensive adjustments. Maybe he would have found a creative way out of it but who knows. 

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21 minutes ago, Jesus said:

There was always going to be regression between 2016 and 2017. If Shanny had stayed he would have seen the same defensive adjustments. Maybe he would have found a creative way out of it but who knows. 

Good point. Shanny was a master at scheming guys open in 2016, seemingly staying one step ahead of DC’s. But in 2nd half of 2015 he struggled just as much as Sark did in not being able to adjust to defense’s adjustments either. People forget that.

Kinda unfair to Sark comparing him to one of the best offensive minds in the game also. I do think he has his own strengths with some wrinkles up his sleeve to throw DC’s off that hopefully will come out this upcoming season. 

If not, he’ll be replaced. 

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12 minutes ago, falcoatlantae said:

Here a point from Bill Barnwell about the contribution of the Falcons defense to the 'underperformance' of the offense (at 1:48):
 

 

You know @vel made this same exact point early on last season and it was legitimately one of the most keen observations I have ever seen around here.

This is why for as happy as I was with Manual and the D overall, they have got to get better in some key spots.

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

Gabe is a deep threat. I thought we ran very similar plays for Gabe last year as we did in 2016, the problem was he just wasn’t getting open. Reason being teams adjusted and utilized press coverages at the line of scrimmage on him, that’s how you shut small speed guys down. Which is why Sark ran the screens in attempting to get him the ball, because the long ball wasn’t there. 

Gabe missing much of preseason camp didn’t help. Seemed like his and ryan’s timing was off all year. 

What you say is true...and that’s the point.  He didn’t disguise the plays that worked for Gabe in 2016.  That’s why the blocking on the bubble screens were blown up.  A player like Gabe needs help from his OC to succeed

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3 hours ago, Vandy said:

Gabe is a deep threat. I thought we ran very similar plays for Gabe last year as we did in 2016, the problem was he just wasn’t getting open. Reason being teams adjusted and utilized press coverages at the line of scrimmage on him, that’s how you shut small speed guys down. Which is why Sark ran the screens in attempting to get him the ball, because the long ball wasn’t there. 

Gabe missing much of preseason camp didn’t help. Seemed like his and ryan’s timing was off all year. 

Good points.

Also? Gabriel rarely played the slot, something Ridley immediately gives us more power with being able to play outside and inside.

We had enough on film entering last year of Gabriel to be a known commodity/well scouted. 2016 run not so much but now Ridley can run most of the routes Julio does; if not all of them regardless if it’s the same depth due to their size difference. Gabriel was a 1 trick with a couple decent screen passes thrown in.

Also, I still say our blocking and player health was clearly better in 2016. Add in the stupid drops that were hitting guys in the hand, many of them becoming INTs(like 7 not just a couple) and consider how our D wasn’t getting turnovers much of the season/staying on the field long.

Its no wonder with bad Field Position we weren’t always at mid field taking shots.

However, hopefully Sark knows how to massage their D into the looks he wants and can be that orchestrator like Kyle became year 2 for the chunk plays.

That with improved red zone helps the offense.

Now have more turnovers on D and more TOP in our favor.

Then, have better STs and we suddenly can be a powerhouse complete team better than 2016.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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2 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

What you say is true...and that’s the point.  He didn’t disguise the plays that worked for Gabe in 2016.  That’s why the blocking on the bubble screens were blown up.  A player like Gabe needs help from his OC to succeed

Or maybe 2016 film gave teams enough scouted looks to know we were limited in versatility? Now they knew Gabe forwards and backwards. Marginal even as a 1 trick receiver and now overpaid elsewhere. KS had previous experience with Gabriel before and found a way to utilize him in a window he was an under the radar weapon.

Ridley should easily pass Gabe’s production. A guy Sark should know of like everyone else on the roster by now.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

Good point. Shanny was a master at scheming guys open in 2016, seemingly staying one step ahead of DC’s. But in 2nd half of 2015 he struggled just as much as Sark did in not being able to adjust to defense’s adjustments either. People forget that.

Kinda unfair to Sark comparing him to one of the best offensive minds in the game also. I do think he has his own strengths with some wrinkles up his sleeve to throw DC’s off that hopefully will come out this upcoming season. 

If not, he’ll be replaced. 

2015 offseason:

Then we got a legit stud C in Mack. We got a Sanu. Signed Aldrick Robinson. Then, we got Gabriel mid season; whom Kyle already worked with before. Drafted a TE in Hooper early. Etc.

He knew his weapons in his second year and was ready for the counter-chess game. Our OL was healthy nearly all season literally up until the SB collapse (Schraeder out, Mack broken leg entering game, TeCo goes down)

Fast forward 2017 offseason moves and recap of 2017:

Signed a proven veteran RG that fits our system. Speaking of which Levitre will be back and healthy. Julio & Calvin were there for all of camp. Instead of a rehabbing Julio (foot) and Gabriel (hammy all offseason nearly), he is working with known weapons that he has experience with. He had none with Julio nor Gabriel before the season(if any barely some for Gabriel?). Our FB was a nobody compared to PB caliber DiMarco. Hopefully Ortiz is closer to Patrick than Derrick Coleman. Yikes! A healthy Free (fingers crossed) and Saubert emerging to compliment Hooper to give us a 2nd TE threat instead of only if “ignored did anything” Toilolo? We are stacked.

Now, consider that in addition to a more experienced and improved system for Sark to do his job well; Knapp wasn’t the only offseason move for offensive coaches. Got a new RBs coach. Probably a few other important people or ones that can also improve by this year.

Finally, if we catch the ball? Lol. No reason to think or expect us to do the same scoring output or anything close to that low this year.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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50 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Good points.

Also? Gabriel rarely played the slot, something Ridley immediately gives us more power with being able to play outside and inside.

We had enough on film entering last year of Gabriel to be a known commodity/welll scouted. 2016 run not so much but now Ridley can run most of the routes Julio does; if not all of them regardless if it’s the same depth due to their size difference. Gabriel was a 1 trick with a couple decent screen passes thrown in.

Also, I still say our blocking and player health was clearly better in 2016. Add in the stupid drops that were hitting guys in the hand, many of them becoming INTs(like 7 not just a couple) and consider how our D wasn’t getting turnovers much of the season/staying on the field long.

Its no wonder with bad Field Position we weren’t always at mid field taking shots.

However, hopefully Sark knows how to massage their D into the looks he wants and can be that orchestrator like Kyle became year 2 for the chunk plays.

That with improved red zone helps the offense.

Now have more turnovers on D and more TOP in our favor.

Then, have better STs and we suddenly can be a powerhouse complete team better than 2016.

Great spot on post Ergo.

+10

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50 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Or maybe 2016 film gave teams enough scouted looks to know we were limited in versatility? Now they knew Gabe forwards and backwards. Marginal even as a 1 trick receiver and now overpaid elsewhere. KS had previous experience with Gabriel before and found a way to utilize him in a window he was an under the radar weapon.

Ridley should easily pass Gabe’s production. A guy Sark should know of like everyone else on the roster by now.

Teams adjusted and started pressing Gabe at the LOS...he just wasn’t getting open like he did in 2016.. 

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2 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

You know @vel made this same exact point early on last season and it was legitimately one of the most keen observations I have ever seen around here.

This is why for as happy as I was with Manual and the D overall, they have got to get better in some key spots.

Man I tried but you know I have no clue what I'm talking about...

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8 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Great spot on post Ergo.

+10

Thanks @Vandy we gotta support decent dialogue man. Glad to contribute when I can.

Too late to back out on Sark year 2, it was always coming anyway. Let’s let it ride and hope when the smoke settles it’s the last of our concerns. Hopefully by then, we’re in meaningful playoff games in position to secure our first title.

Give us that window any day, we got our shots still primed and it starts again tonight boys! Let’s go and Rise Up!!

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2 hours ago, vel said:

Man I tried but you know I have no clue what I'm talking about...

I fought against your point initially last year but finally conceded. The initial reaction to low scoring games is understandable, but if folks looked into the efficiency of performance all was not well.

Thanks for your efforts around here @vel as well others @PeytonMannings Forehead for bringing credit where it was due.

I swear sometimes it seems like analysts or radio guys must grab points first made on this very board lol.

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4 hours ago, vel said:

Man I tried but you know I have no clue what I'm talking about...

People get too caught up in rankings numbers and can lose sight of what's happening between the lines.  I can be a little guilty of that myself.  To be honest with you, when you first pointed out the drive efficiency stats I was like "I ain't sure I'm with vel on this one."

But lo and behold, you actually go back and watch some of those games -- especially Buffalo and Miami -- it's indisputable.  The defense could not get off the field on the second half of those games.  I was at that Buffalo game and third quarter they just mashed our front 7 with the run.  They had a 19 play drive in the 3rd quarter of that game that lasted over 11 minutes!  

You look at the total yardage and the score, and it doesn't look that bad, then everyone wants to look at why the offense only put up 17. 

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51 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

People get too caught up in rankings numbers and can lose sight of what's happening between the lines.  I can be a little guilty of that myself.  To be honest with you, when you first pointed out the drive efficiency stats I was like "I ain't sure I'm with vel on this one."

But lo and behold, you actually go back and watch some of those games -- especially Buffalo and Miami -- it's indisputable.  The defense could not get off the field on the second half of those games.  I was at that Buffalo game and third quarter they just mashed our front 7 with the run.  They had a 19 play drive in the 3rd quarter of that game that lasted over 11 minutes!  

You look at the total yardage and the score, and it doesn't look that bad, then everyone wants to look at why the offense only put up 17. 

What killed me was the 2 or 3 INTs; one in the Bills game I believe, that were negated by roughing the passer or a flag away from the play they didn’t affect the outcome. We beat ourselves on D in that way several times. Otherwise it was just another piece to why offense wound up with so few drives. Look at the way NE played us in the SB. They were winning the clock battle and total plays by quite a bit entering half time. Once we stopped getting sacks and running/scoring the labor caught up to us that just a few critical plays was all it took to break our hold in the game from stamina alone.

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someone earlier called me out for being too negative.  honestly, like many here we're all hoping for the best and I'll try  to put aside my skepticism.  i'm really excited how ridley is going to impact the offense  that was a bold move on Quinn's part showing they want to be dominant offensively again

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46 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

People get too caught up in rankings numbers and can lose sight of what's happening between the lines.  I can be a little guilty of that myself.  To be honest with you, when you first pointed out the drive efficiency stats I was like "I ain't sure I'm with vel on this one."

But lo and behold, you actually go back and watch some of those games -- especially Buffalo and Miami -- it's indisputable.  The defense could not get off the field on the second half of those games.  I was at that Buffalo game and third quarter they just mashed our front 7 with the run.  They had a 19 play drive in the 3rd quarter of that game that lasted over 11 minutes!  

You look at the total yardage and the score, and it doesn't look that bad, then everyone wants to look at why the offense only put up 17. 

Exactly! That game and the Dolphins game pissed me off the most and those were the games that made me think about it. Everybody complained about the offense, rightfully so, but it's a tough proposition trying to score with limited time. Defense plays like they did the last 3-4 games last season, Sark is going to suddenly look a lot better

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10 minutes ago, vel said:

Exactly! That game and the Dolphins game pissed me off the most and those were the games that made me think about it. Everybody complained about the offense, rightfully so, but it's a tough proposition trying to score with limited time. Defense plays like they did the last 3-4 games last season, Sark is going to suddenly look a lot better

Right on. With the areas of positive change already in place on offense I have high hopes.

My only concern is fresh pass rushers late game and run D; at least until Senat wins the starting job. Nothing against McClain but he’s of course no Poe. Together just hoping they aren’t a liability. We seem to have more interior pass rushers this year, but might be thin at DE in terms of pure rushers. Takk stays healthy and it shouldn’t matter. He can eat and Vic is 100% DE this year. Hope that offsets the bodies at the position. Reed may have some in him.

good problem if we are in positions of leading games and just trying to get pressure as our only concern.

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On 9/5/2018 at 11:12 AM, octoslash said:

"Greg Knapp sucks.  He's been around in the NFL forever..."

Anybody besides me see the irony in that?  lol

 

 

Ha, I do but I counter with....................................... Keith Armstrong

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59 minutes ago, vel said:

Exactly! That game and the Dolphins game pissed me off the most and those were the games that made me think about it. Everybody complained about the offense, rightfully so, but it's a tough proposition trying to score with limited time. Defense plays like they did the last 3-4 games last season, Sark is going to suddenly look a lot better

The defense could start that tonight , after the rain delay.

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On 9/5/2018 at 10:44 AM, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

I dont think there was much of a "key issue" with Sarkisian last year. His players had ill-timed lapses in execution and he got a little cute here and there....just like every other play caller in the league. 

There was the numerous jet sweeps per game last season.  We can be a little more creative than that...I hope. 

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