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Matt Ryan is not a Franchise QB according to Bucky Brooks NFL.com


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22 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

Then it's dumb, but you responded.  So what does it make you?  Won't continue explaining over and over my point.  Go read through ALL the responses so YOU can catch up.. I'm done with all the back and forth. 

OK so we all agree your post was dumb.  So Scwarz took some time to educate you & somehow that makes him dumb too?? No, that's not the case at all.  Nobody needs to catch up except you pretty much.

Your points are jaded & Schwarz is on point & simply exposing your deceitfulness. It's so weird how flawed & fake your arguments are.  This isn't really back & forth.  It's simply fair minded people trying to enlighten a child who has an agenda.

Notice how I didn't use the term "troll" for you.  But rather a "child with an agenda".  That should please you.  If you're good, maybe you can choose a lollipop from the fair-minded adults on the board who see right through your nonsense.

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53 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

OK so we all agree your post was dumb.  So Scwarz took some time to educate you & somehow that makes him dumb too?? No, that's not the case at all.  Nobody needs to catch up except you pretty much.

Your points are jaded & Schwarz is on point & simply exposing your deceitfulness. It's so weird how flawed & fake your arguments are.  This isn't really back & forth.  It's simply fair minded people trying to enlighten a child who has an agenda.

Notice how I didn't use the term "troll" for you.  But rather a "child with an agenda".  That should please you.  If you're good, maybe you can choose a lollipop from the fair-minded adults on the board who see right through your nonsense.

Nah, there's other posters who agree with his viewpoint, like ya_boi and myself. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Ryan is an inaccurate passer in general, but I think that his deep throws more often than not don't give the receiver an opportunity to make a play after the catch, that is, unless the ball is thrown into the endzone (in which case no YAC is necessary). It's either because he puts too much air under it (steeper parabola) or not enough zip. He did step up into the pass and wasn't hit (the commentator said as much and I don't think he's blind).

So while this is a nice throw and catch.

Something like this (first clip) is better. Right over the shoulder, good enough velocity, hits Green in full stride so he can keep running for the TD.

 

Think about it. That 30+ yard throw to Ridley, while good, led to a stalled drive which resulted in a turnover on downs (or would be FG in a real game). I'd rather get 6 sure points than a just a big gainer.

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18 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

Nah, there's other posters who agree with his viewpoint, like ya_boi and myself. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Ryan is an inaccurate passer in general, but I think that his deep throws are more often than not don't give the receiver an opportunity to make a play after the catch.

So while this is a nice throw and catch.

Something like this (first clip) is better.

 

TBH, I was speaking to DaTruth who has an agenda imo, & even said the same thing on crossing routes blah blah blah...

I prefer to examine throws one by one & judge folks on their overall body of work over time.  In doing so, it keeps things in perspective & you can take into account all the extenuating circumstances involved in one particular throw. 

I refuse to go back & select hundreds of throws dating back to Roddy & Jenkins to more recent years that were great deep throws. It's all relative bro.  

I looked at this play about 10X now.  I said it before, that we know Ryan can lean into a deep throw well when he wants to, but it looks to me that it was an instant reactive throw with a quick flick, mostly arm throw to get it out in time before the S got there.  You & I have no fkg idea what Ryan was actually thinking as his pocket was getting tighter.  

LOL if you think MR couldn't throw that ball deep to Sanu had he been in that same situation on the video you so chose to select.  Give me a break man.  

Nobody on this board says MR has a cannon like Brett Favre or whomever you'd like to throw out there.  He's made plenty of beautiful deep passes in his day for me to be satisfied with his deep accuracy but sure, just like all other QB's, the deep throw accuracy goes down some over 20, 30, 40 yards as well.  I think one poster in this thread proved that out already.

I was specifically speaking to DaTruth here, I said nothing about you & Ya_boi anyways.  Everything is relative.  What is MR's accuracy on deep balls over his career??  Is it in line with other QB's??  I personally don't really give a fk one way or the other.  All I know is when I see someone with an agenda & is being unfair about something I'll call him out. 

I'm not some sort of MR apologist dude.  I got so fkg pizzed off at his nonsense that year in 2015 that I dog cussed him up & down even despite the fact that it was chaos all around him.  I get sick & tired of watching how incredibly unfair people can be to MR on this board.  And if you're honest with yourself you have to admit it gets laughable & ridiculous at times.

My problem is with the fake, agenda drive, MR haters dude.  I have absolutely no issues with criticizing our QB when he deserves it.  It comes with the territory & I welcome it as long as it's fair minded & not hate filled & agenda driven. I think we both know exactly what I mean.  LMAO... I wrote a novel man.

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2 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

TBH, I was speaking to DaTruth who has an agenda imo, & even said the same thing on crossing routes blah blah blah...

I prefer to examine throws one by one & judge folks on their overall body of work over time.  In doing so, it keeps things in perspective & you can take into account all the extenuating circumstances involved in one particular throw. 

I refuse to go back & select hundreds of throws dating back to Roddy & Jenkins to more recent years that were great deep throws. It's all relative bro.  

I looked at this play about 10X now.  I said it before, that we know Ryan can lean into a deep throw well when he wants to, but it looks to me that it was an instant reactive throw with a quick flick, mostly arm throw to get it out in time before the S got there.  You & I have no fkg idea what Ryan was actually thinking as his pocket was getting tighter.  

LOL if you think MR couldn't throw that ball deep to Sanu had he been in that same situation on the video you so chose to select.  Give me a break man.  

Nobody on this board says MR has a cannon like Brett Favre or whomever you'd like to throw out there.  He's made plenty of beautiful deep passes in his day for me to be satisfied with his deep accuracy but sure, just like all other QB's, the deep throw accuracy goes down some over 20, 30, 40 yards as well.  I think one poster in this thread proved that out already.

I was specifically speaking to DaTruth here, I said nothing about you & Ya_boi anyways.  Everything is relative.  What is MR's accuracy on deep balls over his career??  Is it in line with other QB's??  I personally don't really give a fk one way or the other.  All I know is when I see someone with an agenda & is being unfair about something I'll call him out. 

I'm not some sort of MR apologist dude.  I got so fkg pizzed off at his nonsense that year in 2015 that I dog cussed him up & down even despite the fact that it was chaos all around him.  I get sick & tired of watching how incredibly unfair people can be to MR on this board.  And if you're honest with yourself you have to admit it gets laughable & ridiculous at times.

My problem is with the fake, agenda drive, MR haters dude.  I have absolutely no issues with criticizing our QB when he deserves it.  It comes with the territory & I welcome it as long as it's fair minded & not hate filled & agenda driven. I think we both know exactly what I mean.  LMAO... I wrote a novel man.

I know what you mean, and I think @Da_Truth does too.

But the bolded part is what is frustrating, because we know he CAN do it, but for whatever reason it hasn't been the case very much.

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6 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

TBH, I was speaking to DaTruth who has an agenda imo, & even said the same thing on crossing routes blah blah blah...

My problem is with the fake, agenda drive, MR haters dude.  I have absolutely no issues with criticizing our QB when he deserves it.  It comes with the territory & I welcome it as long as it's fair minded & not hate filled & agenda driven. I think we both know exactly what I mean.  LMAO... I wrote a novel man.

You're the prime example of a fan who doesn't want anyone to say anything negative his/her favorite player.  Matt has flaws in his game...FACT.  No agenda other than stating inconsistencies.

Grow up and stop with the little kid blah, blah, blah and lollipop comments. I could care less how angry you get. If you can't discuss like an adult then this message board may not be for you.  Every fan is not going to see things your way.  

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9 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

I know what you mean, and I think @Da_Truth does too.

But the bolded part is what is frustrating, because we know he CAN do it, but for whatever reason it hasn't been the case very much.

Well, I suggest we run more deep patterns then.  As long as he has time, we can hit them man.  That one JJ dropped against Carolina last year still irks me for some reason.

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46 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

So while this is a nice throw and catch.

Think about it. That 30+ yard throw to Ridley, while good, led to a stalled drive which resulted in a turnover on downs (or would be FG in a real game). I'd rather get 6 sure points than a just a big gainer.

 

4 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

I know what you mean, and I think @Da_Truth does too.

But the bolded part is what is frustrating, because we know he CAN do it, but for whatever reason it hasn't been the case very much.

One, the Ridley catch was part of the first drive that resulted in a TD.

 

Two, Nobody makes that throw for a TD on a regular basis, nobody- not Rodgers, not big Ben, not Cam, not Rivers, not Brady, not Brees. When you get to 30+ yards in the air, comp % drops to about 33% leaguewide. Not only are they not throwing that for a TD, most aren't even completions. You see highlights of other QBs making that throw for a TD, but you don't see the 3-4-5 that were incomplete.

 

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32 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

You're the prime example of a fan who doesn't want anyone to say anything negative his/her favorite player.  Matt has flaws in his game...FACT.  No agenda other than stating inconsistencies.

Grow up and stop with the little kid blah, blah, blah and lollipop comments. I could care less how angry you get. If you can't discuss like an adult then this message board may not be for you.  Every fan is not going to see things your way.  

You're a prime example of a MR troll.  If you're going to come in & think you can unfairly criticize a guy then that's you're prerogative. But I can also push back & call you out.  It's a free country bro.

First, Ryan isn't my favorite player, Julio is, followed by Deion Jones & Takk McKinley.  I do indeed appreciate MR & probably put him there with Deion & Takk.  

Second, you must be mistaking me for someone else who thinks MR doesn't have flaws in his game.  But listening to your comments, you'd think he was inept.

Third & finally, your MR negative bias comes across as insincere at best.  Hey man, you can hate MR all you wish, but don't expect others to just lay down & listen to deceitful comments without pushing back

I personally don't care one way or another if anyone see's things my way.  Stern yes, angry no.  OK, I retract my lollipop comment, I am ashamed. :D

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14 minutes ago, falconidae said:

 

One, the Ridley catch was part of the first drive that resulted in a TD.

 

Two, Nobody makes that throw for a TD on a regular basis, nobody- not Rodgers, not big Ben, not Cam, not Rivers, not Brady, not Brees. When you get to 30+ yards in the air, comp % drops to about 33% leaguewide. Not only are they not throwing that for a TD, most aren't even completions. You see highlights of other QBs making that throw for a TD, but you don't see the 3-4-5 that were incomplete.

 

But when you have those opportunities you still want to capitalize on them, even if it's just 1 completion out of 3 attempts, as long as that one completion results in 6 points. It could be the difference between a successful game-winning drive or a stalled one.

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Just now, JerseyNo12 said:

But when you have those opportunities you still want to capitalize on them, even if it's just 1 completion out of 3 attempts, as long as that one completion results in 6 points. It could be the difference between a successful game-winning drive or a stalled one.

Once again, nobody routinely completes those passes for TDs. Nobody. Expecting Ryan , or any QB, to do that regularly is just unrealistic. 

On passes that went 30+ yards in the air beyond LOS in 2017:

Ryan: 5/25  25%

Brady: 8/27 29%

Brees 7/15 46%

Rivers 6/24 25%

Big Ben: 10/33 30%

Wilson 11/37 29%

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1 minute ago, falconidae said:

Once again, nobody routinely completes those passes for TDs. Nobody. Expecting Ryan , or any QB, to do that regularly is just unrealistic. 

On passes that went 30+ yards in the air beyond LOS in 2017:

Ryan: 5/25  25%

Brady: 8/27 29%

Brees 7/15 46%

Rivers 6/24 25%

Big Ben: 10/33 30%

Wilson 11/37 29%

Perhaps, but from the QBs standpoint you want to give your playmakers a chance to make plays.

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13 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Once again, nobody routinely completes those passes for TDs. Nobody. Expecting Ryan , or any QB, to do that regularly is just unrealistic. 

On passes that went 30+ yards in the air beyond LOS in 2017:

Ryan: 5/25  25%

Brady: 8/27 29%

Brees 7/15 46%

Rivers 6/24 25%

Big Ben: 10/33 30%

Wilson 11/37 29%

Sanu can. Any time he passes it. 100%

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1 minute ago, JerseyNo12 said:

But when you have those opportunities you still want to capitalize on them, even if it's just 1 completion out of 3 attempts, as long as that one completion results in 6 points. It could be the difference between a successful game-winning drive or a stalled one.

That's fair too Jersey. Every QB can have moments of inaccuracy at times I think.  There are so many mitigating circumstances that go along with it too though.  It's simply about fairness to me.  Being appreciative of having a gifted QB is all I have tried to portray.  Sure I can probably be somewhat abrasive & reactive at times after I've read enough unreasonable jargon.

Timing can be disrupted by an aggressive defender, pressure in the pocket, a slip, another defender in the area posing a potential threat, a push off, a slight variation in the initial path when the ball was thrown & YES, just a miscalculated, inaccurate throw too... Then you have this happening even with timing routes as well. 

It's impossible to calculate all the tangible & intangible factors that go into what an NFL QB is responsible for & what he is thinking about as a fan watching on TV.  You must take into account the sheer magnitude of responsibilities QB's are tasked with including progressions, reading defenses, knowing other's assignments, anticipation etc etc etc... And we can all be so critical to the point that it just seems insanely ridiculous to listen to someone who you know is being unfairly critical while they pick & choose random attacks while sitting in the comfort of their office looking at replays...:rolleyes: 

I look at that nice throw to Ridley & see Ryan making an instantaneous, all arm whip throw to a money spot to get the guaranteed catch.  Pocket was narrowing quickly as well.  Maybe he could have really tried to drive his body into that throw. If so, he would also be lessening the chance of a completion by risking an overthrow or being bumped by a D or O linemen or whatever... It's all relative.

Sure Ryan can be inaccurate at times.  My gawd folks, he's a freaking human being playing QB just like the rest of the NFL QB's.  You can EASILY go criticize their play & find all kinds of reasons to pick apart their inaccuracies as well.  It's all relative as I said.  

I know I am not being overly defensive when I see some unfairness here.  It happens quite a bit.  I really don't mind the criticism, but it's the trolling I can't tolerate too much of.  

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13 minutes ago, falconidae said:

There's no perhaps, those are the splits from last year. Every year looks the same. Leaguewide, 7 out of 10 passes thrown 30+ yards fall incomplete. No QB is capable of doing what you want. 

Good point but I think Jersey wants to see the Falcons scheme more deep plays into our repertoire like the Saints & the Steelers seem to do so well.  I wouldn't mind seeing that happen either & I actually feel it will happen much more now with Ridley in the picture.

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24 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Once again, nobody routinely completes those passes for TDs. Nobody. Expecting Ryan , or any QB, to do that regularly is just unrealistic. 

On passes that went 30+ yards in the air beyond LOS in 2017:

Ryan: 5/25  25%

Brady: 8/27 29%

Brees 7/15 46%

Rivers 6/24 25%

Big Ben: 10/33 30%

Wilson 11/37 29%

Steelers & hawks going for it deep a fair amount more.  Juxtaposed with the Saints at much less than expected.  

I've often wondered just how unreal MR's numbers would be if he'd had Sean Payton as an OC his entire career.  It would be beyond ridiculous.  Then again, what if there was world peace...yada yada...

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2 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

Good point but I think Jersey wants to see the Falcons scheme more deep plays into our repertoire like the Saints & the Steelers seem to do so well.  I wouldn't mind seeing that happen either & I actually feel it will happen much more now with Ridley in the picture.

Except they don't really. You just see the highlights of the completed deep shots.  Brees threw it deep 15 times last year,  Ryan 25 - 20-35 deep throws  is really typical, some big armed QBs will take a few more deep shots, some other QBs a few less.

Difference between the number of deep shots that Ryan typically takes and the QB throwing the most deep throws in a year is about 1 deep shot every other game.

3 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

Steelers & hawks going for it deep a fair amount more.  Juxtaposed with the Saints at much less than expected.  

I've often wondered just how unreal MR's numbers would be if he'd had Sean Payton as an OC his entire career.  It would be beyond ridiculous.  Then again, what if there was world peace...yada yada...

That fair amount more is less than one deep shot a game. And Russell took more deep shots than usual last year-he's in the 20-30 range most years.

It's just not as bad a part of the game as some seem to think.

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1 hour ago, Da_Truth said:

You're the prime example of a fan who doesn't want anyone to say anything negative his/her favorite player.  Matt has flaws in his game...FACT.  No agenda other than stating inconsistencies.

Grow up and stop with the little kid blah, blah, blah and lollipop comments. I could care less how angry you get. If you can't discuss like an adult then this message board may not be for you.  Every fan is not going to see things your way.  

Welcome to my world bruh. Just like I feel about other topics too. Although regarding this Matt Ryan topic I believe he has less weaknesses and more strengths in his game, but I'm in no denial that Matt Ryan does have WEAKNESSES as our franchise QB, and the biggest one to me is the fact that he's always needed the most talented skill players at WR, TE, and/or RB to be good, unlike Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady who can do so much more with less talent around them.

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53 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

You're a prime example of a MR troll.  If you're going to come in & think you can unfairly criticize a guy then that's you're prerogative. But I can also push back & call you out.  It's a free country bro.

First, Ryan isn't my favorite player, Julio is, followed by Deion Jones & Takk McKinley.  I do indeed appreciate MR & probably put him there with Deion & Takk.  

Second, you must be mistaking me for someone else who thinks MR doesn't have flaws in his game.  But listening to your comments, you'd think he was inept.

Third & finally, your MR negative bias comes across as insincere at best.  Hey man, you can hate MR all you wish, but don't expect others to just lay down & listen to deceitful comments without pushing back

I personally don't care one way or another if anyone see's things my way.  Stern yes, angry no.  OK, I retract my lollipop comment, I am ashamed. :D

For one I'm no troll.  Second I'm not a Matt Ryan hater as you call it.  I'm still going to be here commenting on this team...good or bad.  My point of view is just that...mine.  Like it or don't like it...oh well.  This message board is for all fans...even the ones you disagree with.

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1 minute ago, mqg96 said:

Welcome to my world bruh. Just like I feel about other topics too. Although regarding this Matt Ryan topic I believe he has less weaknesses and more strengths in his game, but I'm in no denial that Matt Ryan does have WEAKNESSES and a QB, and the biggest one to me is the fact that he's always needed the most talented skill players at WR, TE, and/or RB to be good, unlike Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady who can do so much more with less talent around them.

When it comes to opinions no one is ever going to see things exactly the same.  I didn't say Matt was a terrible QB.  In fact I said he is the best the Falcons has ever had (in my opinion) as far as winning.  On the other hand Matt has areas of game that can be in improved upon. Anyone denying that is in denial.

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1 minute ago, Da_Truth said:

When it comes to opinions no one is ever going to see things exactly the same.  I didn't say Matt was a terrible QB.  In fact I said he is the best the Falcons has ever had (in my opinion) as far as winning.  On the other hand Matt has areas of game that can be in improved upon. Anyone denying that is in denial.

I get what you’re saying. I made claims last week in another long Ryan thread that Ryan was not on the level of Rodgers or Brady. People are just sensitive and need to defend their QB. I have always liked Ryan. Always thought of him as a franchise QB. He’s just not the best. That’s all

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2 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

For one I'm no troll.  Second I'm not a Matt Ryan hater as you call it.  I'm still going to be here commenting on this team...good or bad.  My point of view is just that...mine.  Like it or don't like it...oh well.  This message board is for all fans...even the ones you disagree with.

OK brother, that's fine. Maybe you showed some troll-like symptoms or maybe I thought you had a history of this type of behavior.  If I am wrong then I apologize.  But if not, then I stand by my comments.  I obviously got the vibes you were trolling but hey, I've been wrong in the past & will be wrong in the future.  

But if you are a nasty, lying, dirty troll who has an agenda of hating & inciting & agitating, then I have no use for you.  :D

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1 minute ago, Da_Truth said:

When it comes to opinions no one is ever going to see things exactly the same.  I didn't say Matt was a terrible QB.  In fact I said he is the best the Falcons has ever had (in my opinion) as far as winning.  On the other hand Matt has areas of game that can be in improved upon. Anyone denying that is in denial.

I see, and I understand your point too. I know you're not a Matt Ryan hater at all. You're just sincerely explaining how Matt Ryan can improve on his game out of love for our QB. That other guy from the Jalen Ramsey thread last week (forgot his name) was clearly a Matt Ryan hater and it was blatantly obvious. 

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:D

1 minute ago, mqg96 said:

I see, and I understand your point too. I know you're not a Matt Ryan hater at all. You're just sincerely explaining how Matt Ryan can improve on his game out of love for our QB. That other guy from the Jalen Ramsey thread last week (forgot his name) was clearly a Matt Ryan hater and it was blatantly obvious. 

Sometimes is so hard to tell man...:D

ball GIF

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