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Matt Ryan is not a Franchise QB according to Bucky Brooks NFL.com


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1 hour ago, falconidae said:

Riiiight, I disagree with you, I'm in denial. Couldn't possibly be because you are wrong.

Ryan is the 8th most accurate passer ever in the NFL, that's just impossible if he's as inaccurate as you claim. 

Look, you're the video creator/editor...I follow your YouTube channel.  Why don't you make a cut-up of all of Matt's crossing route throws and go routes.  Let's just let the video prove me wrong.  

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15 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

Look, you're the video creator/editor...I follow your YouTube channel.  Why don't you make a cut-up of all of Matt's crossing route throws and go routes.  Let's just let the video prove me wrong.  

Not I'm not.

Why don't you explain how Ryan is so inaccurate but is still top 8 all time in comp%?

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15 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

You need to go read what I said. It has nothing to do with completion percentages.  I've already explained the issue.

I did read what you said, and, for Ryan to be as  inaccurate  as you say AND have a really high comp % means that a very large number of inaccurate passes are being caught.

Also contradicts the advanced stats that show Ryan as very accurate.

 

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32 minutes ago, falconidae said:

I did read what you said, and, for Ryan to be as  inaccurate  as you say AND have a really high comp % means that a very large number of inaccurate passes are being caught.

Also contradicts the advanced stats that show Ryan as very accurate.

 

I never said bad balls weren't being caught (they do count in completion percentage). My point is certain passes aren't placed where the receiver can catch it in stride and pickup additional YAC. They've been reaching back or slowing down for the ball--which allows the defender to knock down passes or make the tackle.

Prime example of what I'm talking about...first play of second quarter Matt throws a crossing route to Hall, he has two or three steps on his man, ball is thrown behind Hall and he has to reach behind him to catch it, defender makes the tackle. If Matt leads Hall he's up the sideline for more yards.

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2 hours ago, Da_Truth said:

Look, you're the video creator/editor...I follow your YouTube channel.  Why don't you make a cut-up of all of Matt's crossing route throws and go routes.  Let's just let the video prove me wrong.  

Did you miss my post? How are you not understanding that it's a timing issue and not an accuracy issue? Those are two completely different things.

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1 hour ago, Da_Truth said:

I never said bad balls weren't being caught (they do count in completion percentage). My point is certain passes aren't placed where the receiver can catch it in stride and pickup additional YAC. They've been reaching back or slowing down for the ball--which allows the defender to knock down passes or make the tackle.

Prime example of what I'm talking about...first play of second quarter Matt throws a crossing route to Hall, he has two or three steps on his man, ball is thrown behind Hall and he has to reach behind him to catch it, defender makes the tackle. If Matt leads Hall he's up the sideline for more yards.

How many times has Matt Ryan played and practiced with Hall to get the correct timing down with him? He doesn't have those timing issues with Julio because he's been playing with Julio for years. He didn't have those timing issues with Roddy because he played with Roddy for years. Seriously, you're a good poster most of the time but right now you just look stupid.

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49 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

I never said bad balls weren't being caught (they do count in completion percentage). My point is certain passes aren't placed where the receiver can catch it in stride and pickup additional YAC. They've been reaching back or slowing down for the ball--which allows the defender to knock down passes or make the tackle.

Prime example of what I'm talking about...first play of second quarter Matt throws a crossing route to Hall, he has two or three steps on his man, ball is thrown behind Hall and he has to reach behind him to catch it, defender makes the tackle. If Matt leads Hall he's up the sideline for more yards.

You specifically said that that bad balls were being caught and that helped Ryan's %.

So, lets take a look at the Ridley long completion. That went 35 yards in air past LOS. Nobody in the NFL routinely makes that throw for a TD.  Nobody in the NFL routinely completes that throw. Overall comp% for the NFL over 20 yards is about 50%, drops to 33% when you hit 30 yards.

ARod, best arm in NFL, has had 1 season where he completed 50% of his passes past 20 yards, rest of the time, he's between 25-35%.

Same with Cam,except he hasn't had a 50% year.  Same with Flacco. Same with Big Ben.

Expecting Ryan to make that throw for a TD is just not realistic, nobody does on any kind of regular basis. You see the highlights from other QBs when they actually complete the throw, you don't see the 3-4-5  incompletions from the same distance.

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1 minute ago, Falconsfan567 said:

How many times has Matt Ryan played and practiced with Hall to get the correct timing down with him? He doesn't have those timing issues with Julio because he's been playing with Julio for years. He didn't have those timing issues with Roddy because he played with Roddy for years. Seriously, you're a good poster most of the time but right now you just look stupid.

I'm not here for popularity contests.  I'm stating MY opinion from what I've seen.  Matt does throw it behind Julio, Sanu, Hooper, etc.  This isn't about his familiarity with players, it's about ball placement.  

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7 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Did you miss my post? How are you not understanding that it's a timing issue and not an accuracy issue? Those are two completely different things.

Okay, then it's a timing issue.  The ball isn't thrown where it should be at that moment for YAC.  This offense is about getting YAC after all.

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7 minutes ago, falconidae said:

You specifically said that that bad balls were being caught and that helped Ryan's %.

So, lets take a look at the Ridley long completion. That went 35 yards in air past LOS. Nobody in the NFL routinely makes that throw for a TD.  Nobody in the NFL routinely completes that throw. Overall comp% for the NFL over 20 yards is about 50%, drops to 33% when you hit 30 yards.

ARod, best arm in NFL, has had 1 season where he completed 50% of his passes past 20 yards, rest of the time, he's between 25-35%.

Same with Cam,except he hasn't had a 50% year.  Same with Flacco. Same with Big Ben.

Expecting Ryan to make that throw for a TD is just not realistic, nobody does on any kind of regular basis. You see the highlights from other QBs when they actually complete the throw, you don't see the 3-4-5  incompletions from the same distance.

I don't know about other QBs because I only watch Ryan regularly.  No QB is a perfect passer, but we have a number of faster guys now and Ryan needs to improve his ball placement by leading the receivers with the ball (on the routes I mentioned). And I didn't say I expected every pass would be a TD, but if the ball is thrown out front it increases the likelihood the receivers could take it to the house.  

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5 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

I don't know about other QBs because I only watch Ryan regularly.  No QB is a perfect passer, but we have a number of faster guys now and Ryan needs to improve his ball placement by leading the receivers with the ball (on the routes I mentioned). And I didn't say I expected every pass would be a TD, but if the ball is thrown out front it increases the likelihood the receivers could take it to the house.  

If you don't watch other QBs, then you don't realize how nice a play that was.  He threw that 40 yards in the air and put it exactly where he wanted it. You're watching all of Ryan's throws and only seeing the highlights of other QBs, so you don't realize how few  deep passes are even completed leaguewide.

Again, no QB routinely makes that pass for a TD. None of them routinely even make the completion.  Seriously, go look at QB splits from ESPN.com, they have passes broken down by distance. Nobody completes more than a third of their 30+ yard passes. Most are around 20-25%. That means for every highlight reel catch, there's 3-4 incompletions you don't see.

 

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Look man clearly we know MR can throw it deeper.  He flicked that ball in there with mostly all arm as things were getting tighter so he laid it in there short of the safety coming over.  

We all know dam well Ryan could step into a beauty like he did that time to split the GB CB & S for a 50 yard strike to Gabriel. When he could step into it and launch it.  

Instead DaTruth finds a way to be negative over a 36 yard pop to our new WR.  SMH.

This is why people become skeptical over what seems like an unfair agenda.

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7 hours ago, falconidae said:

If you don't watch other QBs, then you don't realize how nice a play that was.  He threw that 40 yards in the air and put it exactly where he wanted it. You're watching all of Ryan's throws and only seeing the highlights of other QBs, so you don't realize how few  deep passes are even completed leaguewide.

Again, no QB routinely makes that pass for a TD. None of them routinely even make the completion.  Seriously, go look at QB splits from ESPN.com, they have passes broken down by distance. Nobody completes more than a third of their 30+ yard passes. Most are around 20-25%. That means for every highlight reel catch, there's 3-4 incompletions you don't see.

 

I'll check out the splits.  So you're telling me Ryan throws the most accurate deep throws?

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8 hours ago, falconidae said:

If you don't watch other QBs, then you don't realize how nice a play that was.  He threw that 40 yards in the air and put it exactly where he wanted it. You're watching all of Ryan's throws and only seeing the highlights of other QBs, so you don't realize how few  deep passes are even completed leaguewide.

Again, no QB routinely makes that pass for a TD. None of them routinely even make the completion.  Seriously, go look at QB splits from ESPN.com, they have passes broken down by distance. Nobody completes more than a third of their 30+ yard passes. Most are around 20-25%. That means for every highlight reel catch, there's 3-4 incompletions you don't see.

 

This is what I'm talking about...

Today’s focus is overall accuracy on different throw types, including “accuracy plus” which is our way of identifying “perfect” throws.

We’ve broken down the quarterbacks by pass depth and separation, but now it’s time to look at individual throw types. We sorted each throw type into a number of different buckets but will focus on the most common: horizontal leads, vertical leads, over the shoulders and stick throws. Horizontal leads are passes in which the quarterback is trying to lead the receiver horizontally across the field (think slants, crossers). Vertical leads are passes in which the quarterback is trying to lead the receiver vertically up the field (think posts, seams). Over-the-shoulder throws are just as they say, passes in which the quarterback is trying to drop the ball over a receiver’s shoulder with touch (think “go” routes). Finally, “stick” throws are passes in which the quarterback is firing the ball on a line with the receiver either facing him or working back toward the throw (think curls and comebacks).

Remember: this is all about actual ball location of the pass, not just throwing a “catchable” pass. We’ve proven the importance of ball location with regard to yards after the catch and expected points added, so putting the ball in the right spot is crucial in order to optimize success.

HORIZONTAL LEAD

Drew Brees Horizontal Lead

 

Brees Accuracy +

Drew Brees leads the way in overall accuracy on horizontal leads by a wide margin, just edging out Tom Brady in accuracy-plus. Philip Rivers joins Brady and Brees on both lists as he’s been one of the league’s best at hitting receivers in-stride on shallow crosses the last two years. Alex Smith offered good catch-and-run opportunities on his horizontal throws, finishing fourth in accuracy-plus, while Matthew Stafford had an odd breakdown, finishing 35th in overall accuracy, but fifth in accuracy-plus.

VERTICAL LEAD

Dalton Vertical Lead

Dalton Accuracy + Vertical Lead

Andy Dalton heads both lists on vertical leads as he’s one of the best seam throwers in the NFL. Eli Manning also had a strong 2017 on vertical leads, while for Cam Newton, this was one of only two throw types in which he ranked above the NFL average. For the Carolina Panthers, it makes a ton of sense to allow Newton to throw more seams and posts in their new offense. Matt Ryan has been an excellent post/seam thrower since entering the league and he attacks both throws with excellent anticipation and accuracy. We mentioned Carson Wentz’s massive improvement at the intermediate level in our pass-depth breakdown and vertical leads were a big part of it as he finished fifth overall and second in accuracy-plus. Jared Goff has been a strong vertical lead-thrower since his college days at Cal and he finished fifth in accuracy-plus.

OVER-THE-SHOULDER

McCown Over Shoulder

McCown Accuracy + Over Shoulder

The over-the-shoulder list will look similar to our deep-passing list as Josh McCown had an outstanding year dropping passes in the bucket, as did Brady and they rank Nos. 1 and 2 on both lists. Smith’s career year featured a number of accurate over-the-shoulder throws as he finished third in overall accuracy. Both Eagles quarterbacks are featured as Nick Foles ranked fifth overall in his small sample size and Wentz finished third in accuracy-plus. Russell Wilson ranked fifth in accuracy-plus after leading in overall accuracy on over-the-shoulder throws a year ago.

STICK

Garoppolo Stick

Rivers Accuracy + Stick

Stick throws are not all about velocity as Jimmy Garoppolo tops the list, though Wentz used his strong arm to rank second. Blaine Gabbert struggled overall in 2017, but much like his intermediate throwing, he did shine in this one area. As for accuracy-plus, it’s lower than other throws due to the nature of “stick” throws where “perfect” accuracy can vary and we generally top it out at “frame.” However, the names on the accuracy-plus list excelled at putting the ball up and away from the leverage of the defenders and it’s no surprise to see some of the best quarterbacks in the league topping the accuracy-plus list.

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8 hours ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

Look man clearly we know MR can throw it deeper.  He flicked that ball in there with mostly all arm as things were getting tighter so he laid it in there short of the safety coming over.  

We all know dam well Ryan could step into a beauty like he did that time to split the GB CB & S for a 50 yard strike to Gabriel. When he could step into it and launch it.  

Instead DaTruth finds a way to be negative over a 36 yard pop to our new WR.  SMH.

This is why people become skeptical over what seems like an unfair agenda.

You see it as me being negative or having an agenda.  The fact of the matter is Ryan struggles leading receivers on crossing routes and it's an area he needs to improve upon. 

Quinn even said during camp they want to have more YAC and the ability for players to try and score in the open field.  How is that going to happen if Ryan isn't leading players with the ball to continue running?

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2 hours ago, Da_Truth said:

I'll check out the splits.  So you're telling me Ryan throws the most accurate deep throws?

Sigh, no. I'm saying Ryan is as accurate as anybody else on those throws.

PFF also consistently ranks Ryan as one of the most accurate passers in the NFL. They had him as the number 2 QB overall this last year, just behind Brady, and as the 6th most accurate passer in the league.

And, the PFF numbers don't show where Ryan is for most of those throws- he could be top ten in those categories-you don't know. 

Also, look at the %, over the shoulder catch, for example is 50% for the best. Means average is probably around 25%.

 

12 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

You see it as me being negative or having an agenda.  The fact of the matter is Ryan struggles leading receivers on crossing routes and it's an area he needs to improve upon. 

Quinn even said during camp they want to have more YAC and the ability for players to try and score in the open field.  How is that going to happen if Ryan isn't leading players with the ball to continue running?

Didn't say you were negative, just that you have unrealistic expectations for Ryan based on watching highlight throws from other QBs and assuming those QBs are much more accurate on deep throws. 

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46 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Sigh, no. I'm saying Ryan is as accurate as anybody else on those throws.

PFF also consistently ranks Ryan as one of the most accurate passers in the NFL. They had him as the number 2 QB overall this last year, just behind Brady, and as the 6th most accurate passer in the league.

And, the PFF numbers don't show where Ryan is for most of those throws- he could be top ten in those categories-you don't know. 

Also, look at the %, over the shoulder catch, for example is 50% for the best. Means average is probably around 25%.

 

Didn't say you were negative, just that you have unrealistic expectations for Ryan based on watching highlight throws from other QBs and assuming those QBs are much more accurate on deep throws. 

That negative reply was for Hashbrown's post.

It's not unrealistic to want your QB to improve in an area he struggles with. There are no players on this team whose play can't improve. When I see an issue consistently repeated is when I bring it up.  I am about the overall success of the team.  

Many here think I'm hating on a player, but it's something I'd like to see get corrected. Simple as that.  

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On 8/21/2018 at 8:53 AM, Da_Truth said:

Ryan is not that accurate and it's okay.  It doesn't have anything to do with completion percentages, because receivers do catch bad passes.  If you're in denial that's fine.  But if you're being honest and watching the same plays as everyone else, how can you not see a number of Ryan's passes are short or behind the receivers, TEs and RBs?  It's a major factor in guys not picking up YAC and possibly more TDs.  It's just a part of his game that needs work.  AND it's just not the Ridley pass either.

Haha, I can’t put into words how dumb this post is.  If your really going to use YAC as a metric then you better look- up who is in the top 10 of YAC all time and modify your answer.  Not that I would use YAC as a measure of leading receivers and accuracy.

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1 minute ago, schwarzenegger321 said:

Haha, I can’t put into words how dumb this post is.  If your really going to use YAC as a metric then you better look- up who is in the top 10 of YAC all time and modify your answer.  Not that I would use YAC as a measure of leading receivers and accuracy.

Then it's dumb, but you responded.  So what does it make you?  Won't continue explaining over and over my point.  Go read through ALL the responses so YOU can catch up.. I'm done with all the back and forth. 

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2 hours ago, Da_Truth said:

You see it as me being negative or having an agenda.  The fact of the matter is Ryan struggles leading receivers on crossing routes and it's an area he needs to improve upon. 

Quinn even said during camp they want to have more YAC and the ability for players to try and score in the open field.  How is that going to happen if Ryan isn't leading players with the ball to continue running?

Rubbish.  He's as competent at leading receivers as anyone in the league. He's always been one of the most accurate passers in this league.  LOL, of course the team always wants more YAC...Duh!  

Derp derp derp, please continue making wild assertions & cherry picking the throws you personally don't like.  Meanwhile those without an agenda, like most here, will take into account the larger body of work.  

They'll be plenty of YAC this year bro. We just drafted a more dynamic & explosive WR in Calvin Ridley.  This was one 36 yard completion where Ryan flicked the ball on an all arm throw where he wasn't able to step up & launch one like he did with that 50 yard masterpiece he threw to Gabe against GB.

LOL @ "How is that going to happen if Ryan isn't leading players with the ball to continue running?"  Uh, knock knock knock...hello...uh perhaps you should just go look at the zillion times he's done exactly that.  Stop insulting our intelligence please.

 

 

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