The Falcon Jedi Knight

Matt Ryan is not a Franchise QB according to Bucky Brooks NFL.com

195 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Ignorant about what? Ryan put up big numbers one year. So he CAN do it. But that is with a great OC. He has been consistent with the yards. He has trouble in the endzone. If anything that keeps people from thinking Ryan is special is his lack of TDs, is an obvious reason why people aren't gaga over him. I criticize Ryan, but I see him improving moving the pocket around. Maybe the OC is holding him back, but lack of TD production has been something that plagued Ryan his entire career.

If it was based on stats then some of those guys haven’t earned the title either. It’s obvious he doesn’t watch Ryan play. 

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He put MATTHEW STAFFORD over Matt Ryan! :lol:

and this is coming from a die hard UGA fan. I'm sorry, but has Matt Stafford ever won the division for the Lions or won a playoff game? Stafford has only had 2 double digit win seasons his whole career compared to Ryan's 6.

Also, how is Cam Newton on this list and not Matt Ryan when Cam Newton hasn't been a predominantly passing QB for his whole career? 

Edited by mqg96
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37 minutes ago, falconfreak1 said:

If it was based on stats then some of those guys haven’t earned the title either. It’s obvious he doesn’t watch Ryan play. 

Maybe he did and simply has not reached the same conclusion as you. The big issue that people have against calling Ryan "elite" or "franchise" QB is that he struggles in the endzone and people don't believe that he can use mediocre weapons and  elevate their play but rather that the Falcons have big time weapons in JJ, Freeman, Coleman, and Sanu, and when Shanny and Taylor Gabriel was here, that they helped elevate Ryan rather than Ryan elevating their play. So a franchise QB to Bucky is a guy that elevates the team around him, not the other way around. So it's not about just the stats. The case that Bucky has made in the past, and I know this because I listen to his podcast, is that when Ryan doesn't have a big time OC, or if JJ is out, or some of the other players, Ryan's play is lackluster. He isn't bad per se, but nothing close to a franchise QB either. So Bucky does think that Ryan is a great QB, but being a great QB is not enough to be considered a top 10 franchise QB which is the list the OP was referring to.

That seems to be the case where Matt Ryan skeptics tend to make. Even Skip Bayless commented on the Falcons Super Bowl loss, his response was that Matt Ryan started looking like Matt Ryan again, which to him meant, that when the Patriots were coming back, Ryan couldn't get the offense to score to take the win. So basically the 2016 Ryan was a fluke that we will never see again. I wouldn't go so far to agree with Bayless on that point, but I can see where he is coming from. My main issue with fans (not just Falcon fans) is that they think if that someone doesn't like a player as much as they do, they see that person as a hater.

 

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11 hours ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

So a starting Qb playing 10+ yrs for a "FRANCHISE", throwing for 4000+ each season, multiple pro bowls, winning MVP, and played for and nearly winning a Superbowl (amongst other things) doesn't qualify as a franchise Qb??? **** what else does it take?

apparently we need to ask sam darnold.....:ninja:

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11 hours ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

So a starting Qb playing 10+ yrs for a "FRANCHISE", throwing for 4000+ each season, multiple pro bowls, winning MVP, and played for and nearly winning a Superbowl (amongst other things) doesn't qualify as a franchise Qb??? **** what else does it take?

Not if you are only doing it for one year. Ryan has been a pro bowl alt on a couple of occasions, but only once as All pro. Same with his MVP. Only 2 times in his career that he eclipsed 30 TDs. Ryan has the yards, just not great in the red zone which is more important than just piling on yards. Why don't you talk about TD production? How many years has Ryan had that is even remotely close to his TD production in 2016? Ryan's 2nd best year was 2012 where he scored 32 TDs. 32 TD is great but nothing like the kind of seasons that Rodgers, Brady, or even Brees were posting in their prime on a more consistent basis.

So they aren't just looking at his stats or awards, but comparing him to the best of the best as far as his contemporaries go. Ryan critics acknowledge him as a very-good to great QB. They aren't as in love with him as you are. That's the difference.

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1 hour ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Not if you are only doing it for one year. Ryan has been a pro bowl alt on a couple of occasions, but only once as All pro. Same with his MVP. Only 2 times in his career that he eclipsed 30 TDs. Ryan has the yards, just not great in the red zone which is more important than just piling on yards. Why don't you talk about TD production? How many years has Ryan had that is even remotely close to his TD production in 2016? Ryan's 2nd best year was 2012 where he scored 32 TDs. 32 TD is great but nothing like the kind of seasons that Rodgers, Brady, or even Brees were posting in their prime on a more consistent basis.

So they aren't just looking at his stats or awards, but comparing him to the best of the best as far as his contemporaries go. Ryan critics acknowledge him as a very-good to great QB. They aren't as in love with him as you are. That's the difference.

Yeah yeah and YEAH. We can bring up all the good things and all the bad, but to still question a guy who's a borderline HOF, as to whether he's a franchise Qb or not is insane. No matter how you try to spin it.

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58 minutes ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

Yeah yeah and YEAH. We can bring up all the good things and all the bad, but to still question a guy who's a borderline HOF, as to whether he's a franchise Qb or not is insane. No matter how you try to spin it.

I am not the one spinning it. You are. I acknowledged the awards and the yardage that Ryan has. You haven't acknowledged ANYTHING that is a critique of him. My critique is that Ryan is not consistent when it comes to TDs. You and other critics of the critics of Ryan NEVER EVER acknowledge his. You just dismiss the critique as being a hater. Ryans best season is when he had 38 TDs. His second best is 32, and his 3rd best is 29. He did post 3 28 TD campaigns which is good. His career AVERAGE is about 26ish. When do QBs that AVERAGE 26 TDs a season are known as franchise QBs in TODAY's NFL?

Lets compare Ryan to Rivers. Philip Rivers average is 3,596 yards,  24.4 TDs  and 11 ints per season. 2 of those seasons he barely played but I'll ignore that. It is what it is.  Ryan averages 4,179 yards, 26 TDs, 12,6 ints per season.

Ryan has Rivers beat in averaging total yards and TDs, but his ints are higher. But it's safe to say they aren't too far apart. Rivers INT is probably lower because he has so few snaps in his first 2 years playing behind Brees, but that would also account for his TDs and yards being lower also.

If you get rid of the first 2 years of Philips who didn't start at the time and start his stats when he did start, it would look like this on average: 4187 yards, 28.4 TDs and 13.75, His yards, TDs and INTs all go up. That being said, when do you hear people include RIvers being "elite" or a "franchise QB" when these topics are brought up? Never, SAVE for Chargers fans.

My point is that Ryan is being treated no differently than any other QB by the media at large. They aren't hating on him. Even if Ryan does make it to the hall of fame, He is doing it the same way Jason Witten did; By being very good, but not spectacular. Being consistent and doing it over a long period of time. Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers and Jason Witten are steady Eddies. They are good at what they do, not spectacular and they just keep chugging along.

I know Falcon fans want Ryan to be seen as special. But he is not. He is a steady Eddy. Maybe that is special in it's own way, but not in the way people talk about franchise QB.

Edited by Intellectually Honest

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Philip Rivers - avg 26 TD/yr

Eli Manning avg 26 TD/yr

Ben Roethlisberger avg 23.5 TD/yr

Andy Dalton avg 23.8 TD/yr

Carson Palmer 21 TD/yr

Drew Brees 28 TD/yr

Joe Flacco 20 TD/yr

Sam Darnold 0 TD/yr

Matt Ryan 26 TD/yr

 

Yea he can't compete with all those guys. Not a franchise QB like Sam Darnold.

 

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Simply put would anyone around here trade Matt Ryan for:

Tom Brady-good for one more year?

Aaron Rodgers-possibly overrated but maybe?

Russell Wilson-watch him and the Seahawks collapse this year

Drew Brees-last year should have been his last but got some young help

Philip Rivers-great arm but not great

Carson Wentz-has not even been in playoffs yet

Cam Newton-too much emotion in his play on and off the field

Deshaun Watson-a few games is hard to judge by

Matthew Stafford-Bulldog but still not as reliable as Ryan

Ben Roethlisberger-what would he be without Brown and Bell

Andrew Luck-a disaster waiting to happen

 

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1 hour ago, Intellectually Honest said:

I am not the one spinning it. You are. I acknowledged the awards and the yardage that Ryan has. You haven't acknowledged ANYTHING that is a critique of him. My critique is that Ryan is not consistent when it comes to TDs. You and other critics of the critics of Ryan NEVER EVER acknowledge his. You just dismiss the critique as being a hater. Ryans best season is when he had 38 TDs. His second best is 32, and his 3rd best is 29. He did post 3 28 TD campaigns which is good. His career AVERAGE is about 26ish. When do QBs that AVERAGE 26 TDs a season are known as franchise QBs in TODAY's NFL?

Lets compare Ryan to Rivers. Philip Rivers average is 3,596 yards,  24.4 TDs  and 11 ints per season. 2 of those seasons he barely played but I'll ignore that. It is what it is.  Ryan averages 4,179 yards, 26 TDs, 12,6 ints per season.

Ryan has Rivers beat in averaging total yards and TDs, but his ints are higher. But it's safe to say they aren't too far apart. Rivers INT is probably lower because he has so few snaps in his first 2 years playing behind Brees, but that would also account for his TDs and yards being lower also.

If you get rid of the first 2 years of Philips who didn't start at the time and start his stats when he did start, it would look like this on average: 4187 yards, 28.4 TDs and 13.75, His yards, TDs and INTs all go up. That being said, when do you hear people include RIvers being "elite" or a "franchise QB" when these topics are brought up? Never, SAVE for Chargers fans.

My point is that Ryan is being treated no differently than any other QB by the media at large. They aren't hating on him. Even if Ryan does make it to the hall of fame, He is doing it the same way Jason Witten did; By being very good, but not spectacular. Being consistent and doing it over a long period of time. Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers and Jason Witten are steady Eddies. They are good at what they do, not spectacular and they just keep chugging along.

I know Falcon fans want Ryan to be seen as special. But he is not. He is a steady Eddy. Maybe that is special in it's own way, but not in the way people talk about franchise QB.

I'm not spinning it either. I haven't called you or anyone else a hater. I'm not even a Ryan homer and I know he has his flaws and the down seasons to go with it. He's still a FRANCHISE Qb. Why is that even a question?

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17 hours ago, thamill said:

In 2013 Harry Douglas was his leading WR.  Matt was 4th in passing yards that year with 4500+.  That season proved he is not a system QB nor the problem.  Douglas was an iffy #3 WR here and is out of the league now.  

 

Wow, Matt Fan sad and pathetic Trash on Douglas to Make matt look good. wow

 ps Matt is awesome 

 

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1 hour ago, jlrfalcon said:

Simply put would anyone around here trade Matt Ryan for:

Tom Brady-good for one more year?

Aaron Rodgers-possibly overrated but maybe?

Russell Wilson-watch him and the Seahawks collapse this year

Drew Brees-last year should have been his last but got some young help

Philip Rivers-great arm but not great

Carson Wentz-has not even been in playoffs yet

Cam Newton-too much emotion in his play on and off the field

Deshaun Watson-a few games is hard to judge by

Matthew Stafford-Bulldog but still not as reliable as Ryan

Ben Roethlisberger-what would he be without Brown and Bell

Andrew Luck-a disaster waiting to happen

 

2

Matt Stafford  lol I'm a Dawg fan lol but do need  draft the replacement for Matt Ryan

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1 hour ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

I'm not spinning it either. I haven't called you or anyone else a hater. I'm not even a Ryan homer and I know he has his flaws and the down seasons to go with it. He's still a FRANCHISE Qb. Why is that even a question?

Because it depends on how someone defines what a franchise QB is in the first place. Most people speak past each other because they focus on the terms being used, rather than the definitions being used.

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Bucky Brooks has his opinion on Matt Ryan, but the guy who writes the checks, the guy who handles the player contracts and the head coach of the Falcons think of him as a franchise QB and pay him as such. That's good enough for me.

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9 hours ago, Dirtybird56 said:

Not when your Oline is 

Holmes-Blalock-Konz-Reynolds-Trublood

 

4/5 weren’t NFL caliber, no idea how Ryan didn’t get hurt 

So by how many yards did he exceed your expectations given his circumstances?

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On 8/17/2018 at 8:30 PM, Intellectually Honest said:

Ignorant about what? Ryan put up big numbers one year. So he CAN do it. But that is with a great OC. He has been consistent with the yards. He has trouble in the endzone. If anything that keeps people from thinking Ryan is special is his lack of TDs, is an obvious reason why people aren't gaga over him. I criticize Ryan, but I see him improving moving the pocket around. Maybe the OC is holding him back, but lack of TD production has been something that plagued Ryan his entire career.

Lack of TD production???  WTF???  Ryan is going to retire in top 10 passing TDS all time.  What exactly do you want??

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2 minutes ago, schwarzenegger321 said:

Lack of TD production???  WTF???  Ryan is going to retire in top 10 passing TDS all time.  What exactly do you want??

26 TDs per season average is Franchise QB to you. Ok.

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On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 9:40 AM, Intellectually Honest said:

Maybe he did and simply has not reached the same conclusion as you. The big issue that people have against calling Ryan "elite" or "franchise" QB is that he struggles in the endzone and people don't believe that he can use mediocre weapons and  elevate their play but rather that the Falcons have big time weapons in JJ, Freeman, Coleman, and Sanu, and when Shanny and Taylor Gabriel was here, that they helped elevate Ryan rather than Ryan elevating their play. So a franchise QB to Bucky is a guy that elevates the team around him, not the other way around. So it's not about just the stats. The case that Bucky has made in the past, and I know this because I listen to his podcast, is that when Ryan doesn't have a big time OC, or if JJ is out, or some of the other players, Ryan's play is lackluster. He isn't bad per se, but nothing close to a franchise QB either. So Bucky does think that Ryan is a great QB, but being a great QB is not enough to be considered a top 10 franchise QB which is the list the OP was referring to.

That seems to be the case where Matt Ryan skeptics tend to make. Even Skip Bayless commented on the Falcons Super Bowl loss, his response was that Matt Ryan started looking like Matt Ryan again, which to him meant, that when the Patriots were coming back, Ryan couldn't get the offense to score to take the win. So basically the 2016 Ryan was a fluke that we will never see again. I wouldn't go so far to agree with Bayless on that point, but I can see where he is coming from. My main issue with fans (not just Falcon fans) is that they think if that someone doesn't like a player as much as they do, they see that person as a hater.

 

I do not see him as a hater. I see him as dumb. He and you are entitled to your opinions of course (does not need to be said). For Bayliss to not give Ryan credit for his play in the SB is also dumb. His QB rating in that SB was one of the highest ever if I remember correctly. Ryan made the pass to JJ that should have won the SB if not for poor play calling.

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On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 10:09 AM, Intellectually Honest said:

Not if you are only doing it for one year. Ryan has been a pro bowl alt on a couple of occasions, but only once as All pro. Same with his MVP. Only 2 times in his career that he eclipsed 30 TDs. Ryan has the yards, just not great in the red zone which is more important than just piling on yards. Why don't you talk about TD production? How many years has Ryan had that is even remotely close to his TD production in 2016? Ryan's 2nd best year was 2012 where he scored 32 TDs. 32 TD is great but nothing like the kind of seasons that Rodgers, Brady, or even Brees were posting in their prime on a more consistent basis.

So they aren't just looking at his stats or awards, but comparing him to the best of the best as far as his contemporaries go. Ryan critics acknowledge him as a very-good to great QB. They aren't as in love with him as you are. That's the difference.

You need to not just hold Ryan up to the standards of Brady, Rodgers and Brees. With your argument you need to hold every QB on that list to those standards.

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