777 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Other team's making bad decisions with their money isn't a point.  Not really.

RBs that gain over 2000 yards from scrimmage and score 19 TDs...those aren't really a dime or dozen.

When Matt Rayn was up for contract extension and got 30M a year that's because that's the going rate for QBs - as many said - even tho he's not even best QB in the league.  Now the going rate for WRs have increase as well (sammy watkins makes 16m a year) so the going rate for someone like Julio should be aorund 18-20m

 

So it's less about how a player performs but more about the "going rate" for a player.

Edited by BLM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BLM said:

Julio got $2 more in guarnateed but also had a contract that was 2 years longer.  Gurley gets 45M guarnateed in 4 years while julio got 47m guarnteed on a 6 year deal.  

And you forget RBs are dime a dozen and smamy watkins earns more than julio as well

Did or did Julio not put his pen on paper to sign for the guaranteed money he received?

nomak likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Falcons smartest move is to tell Julio that holding out with 3yrs remaining will result in them refusing to extend him.... ever. It's his perogative to hold out. It's their perogative to extend him or not. He's stuck with 2 options, play for us or don't play. That's for the next 3 seasons, after which we can franchise tag him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BLM said:

When Matt Rayn was up for contract extension and got 30M a year that's because that's the going rate for QBs - as many said - even tho he's not even best QB in the league.  Now the going rate for WRs have increase as well (sammy watkins makes 16m a year) so the going rate for someone like Julio should be aorund 18-20m

So it's less about how a player performs but more about the "going rate" for a player.

Well gosh I think you hit on the exact issue here with Julio's timing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Peyton said:

Julio seen the falcons cut Abraham, Roddy, and Turner.  Dude is not dumb, if he injures himself again, they are cutting him and he rightfully will not take the risk.  I understand.........

I guess MFaulk57158 should probably get you as his attorney.

:rolleyes:

So what part of that is "Julio is afraid of getting cut" again?  What he's clearly saying is the risk of injury on a non-guaranteed contract is incentive for the player to get as much money as he can and not play a risky game on a non-guaranteed contract.  Julio has a market value, and he is playing a dangerous game below his market value.

But then, you're still taking cheap shots at my profession for no reason other than you don't want to engage actual arguments, i.e., you're trolling.  So I'm done with you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

What would the Falcons gain by rubbing his nose in them?  I mean, the Falcons love Julio.  He's been nothing but an exemplary teammate and leader for this franchise pretty much since he got drafted.

Sure, this episode is puzzling to an extent - but why continue to be punitive once they reconcile?

If they keep the fines then it serves as a deterrent for Julio holding out again next season and the year after. If they return the fines it does the opposite. Usually holdouts are in the final year of their contracts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Peyton said:

Well gosh I think you hit on the exact issue here with Julio's timing.

Nothing wrong with trying to get the current going rate if you are  underpaid.  NFL's own fault for broadcasting player salaries

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, maxatlanta said:

If they keep the fines then it serves as a deterrent for Julio holding out again next season and the year after. If they return the fines it does the opposite. Usually holdouts are in the final year of their contracts.

Do you think the Falcons would want to set precedent negatively by breaking a promise to Julio they’ve already made - renegotiating after this season.  If they do that, there’s no need for Julio to hold out.  Thus no motivation to keep the fines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

What would the Falcons gain by rubbing his nose in them?  I mean, the Falcons love Julio.  He's been nothing but an exemplary teammate and leader for this franchise pretty much since he got drafted.

Sure, this episode is puzzling to an extent - but why continue to be punitive once they reconcile?

To deter any Falcons player from ever trying this again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The funniest thing to me is this notion that football players are just employees.  As if they are no different than a cashier at Wal-Mart and their obligations are the same.

Unlike the cashier at Wal-Mart, the football player is more than an employee, he's also the product. He is who the fans go to see.  Nobody cares how well Arthur Blank owns the team, or how well TD manages, or how well the marketing office markets.  People pay to watch players play.  Furthermore, the player's duty to the team is based on contractual obligations of both parties, as well as the CBA and league rules.  If the players go on strike tomorrow, it's not that there are no workers.  It's that there is no product. None of us is going to burn season tickets watching scabs play.

So Julio is more than a cog in a machine.  Granted, the Falcons are more than Julio -- one player doesn't make a team.  But it isn't a "show up or else" situation for him.  He can hold out, and literally the only thing the Falcons can do is refuse to pay and fine him per the contract.  Unless they want to be truly stupid and cut him, in which case he's now a free agent and will get a much bigger contract from a team that wants to win.

GhostofGritz likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Do you think the Falcons would want to set precedent negatively by breaking a promise to Julio they’ve already made - renegotiating after this season.  If they do that, there’s no need for Julio to hold out.  Thus no motivation to keep the fines.

If the Falcons promised to talk to him about it, I am sure it was contingent on him coming to camp on time.  So any promise they made (and I really think they didn't promise him anything) would pretty much be null and void anyway.

PokerSteve likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To further the point using the same example, who here has ever heard of a cashier at Wal-Mart holding out for a raise?

The reason they don't is simple -- they don't have the leverage to do so because there are a hundred other people who would love to have their job, and the same is not true in reverse.  If the cashier says "I'm not showing up again until I get a raise," they'll just fire him and move on to the next one, meanwhile he'll find out that nobody else pays cashiers very much because there is a huge supply of capable cashiers and a finite market for them.  The reverse is true in Julio's situation.

FentayeJones and GhostofGritz like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Do you think the Falcons would want to set precedent negatively by breaking a promise to Julio they’ve already made - renegotiating after this season.  If they do that, there’s no need for Julio to hold out.  Thus no motivation to keep the fines.

It has not been reported that they promised to renegotiate next offseason. It was reported that they planned on extending him. Big difference. And if he is holding out with 3yrs left on his current extension, why should they extend him again? They already have him for the next three years. What does the team gain by extending him further if he has shown that he can't be counted on to report with 3 years left on the last extension?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Peyton said:

To deter any Falcons player from ever trying this again.

It’s a double edged sword.

Come off too hard and players won’t want to play for them... unless they massively overpay.

VTCrunkler likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Peyton said:

If the Falcons promised to talk to him about it, I am sure it was contingent on him coming to camp on time.  So any promise they made (and I really think they didn't promise him anything) would pretty much be null and void anyway.

So say Julio comes in a month from now.  Puts up his normal season 100/1500/6.  The Falcons say - too bad, you didn’t come to camp.  No contract discussion for you.

Really?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

So say Julio comes in a month from now.  Puts up his normal season 100/1500/6.  The Falcons say - too bad, you didn’t come to camp.  No contract discussion for you.

Really?

Why?  He still has two years left on his contract.

PokerSteve likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Do you think the Falcons would want to set precedent negatively by breaking a promise to Julio they’ve already made - renegotiating after this season.  If they do that, there’s no need for Julio to hold out.  Thus no motivation to keep the fines.

It sets a bad precedent for our other players. It's bad practice to renegotiate with three years left. 

By the way Gurley for 15m. Free got 8

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

So say Julio comes in a month from now.  Puts up his normal season 100/1500/6.  The Falcons say - too bad, you didn’t come to camp.  No contract discussion for you.

Really?

Honestly if I were the Falcons and I could find a decent offer right now, I'd ship him. Not just cause he is turning into a bad seed but because it is the perfect time to reallocate that money to some younger players.

Unfortunately I think Julio has hurt his own value with this stunt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

It’s a double edged sword.

Come off too hard and players won’t want to play for them... unless they massively overpay.

The Falcons treat the players awesome.  Nobody is going to fault them for crushing Julio in this situation, he's brought it on himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Peyton said:

Honestly if I were the Falcons and I could find a decent offer right now, I'd ship him. Not just cause he is turning into a bad seed but because it is the perfect time to relocate that money to some younger players.

Unfortunately I think Julio has hurt his own value with this stunt.

What’s decent?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

The funniest thing to me is this notion that football players are just employees.  As if they are no different than a cashier at Wal-Mart and their obligations are the same.

Unlike the cashier at Wal-Mart, the football player is more than an employee, he's also the product. He is who the fans go to see.  Nobody cares how well Arthur Blank owns the team, or how well TD manages, or how well the marketing office markets.  People pay to watch players play.  Furthermore, the player's duty to the team is based on contractual obligations of both parties, as well as the CBA and league rules.  If the players go on strike tomorrow, it's not that there are no workers.  It's that there is no product. None of us is going to burn season tickets watching scabs play.

So Julio is more than a cog in a machine.  Granted, the Falcons are more than Julio -- one player doesn't make a team.  But it isn't a "show up or else" situation for him.  He can hold out, and literally the only thing the Falcons can do is refuse to pay and fine him per the contract.  Unless they want to be truly stupid and cut him, in which case he's now a free agent and will get a much bigger contract from a team that wants to win.

Yes and no.

Players aren’t the product.

The experience is.

Players are components like an engine in a race car.

Sure you can go with cheaper components but...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

To further the point using the same example, who here has ever heard of a cashier at Wal-Mart holding out for a raise?

The reason they don't is simple -- they don't have the leverage to do so because there are a hundred other people who would love to have their job, and the same is not true in reverse.  If the cashier says "I'm not showing up again until I get a raise," they'll just fire him and move on to the next one, meanwhile he'll find out that nobody else pays cashiers very much because there is a huge supply of capable cashiers and a finite market for them.  The reverse is true in Julio's situation.

Would Julio be the same receiver after 3 years of non football activity at the age of 31?  That's the leverage the Falcons have.  I'm not sure how the money works but if we're not paying him, that money could be used for other areas of the roster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.