Jerz #DukeSZN

Football is Dead

75 posts in this topic

This game will never be the same. The rule changes will be so drastic that it just might not be enjoyable anymore. This guy was just a college QB, now imagine how someone like Freemans brain looks. 

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1 minute ago, athell said:

1.  Football is not dead

2.  Football is not even close to dead

3.  The door is over there...no one is forcing you to watch

I will watch until the wheels fall off. But this is a sad revelation and reinforces why they are changing so many rules and why it will soon not be the same sport we watched growing up.

Don’t take the word ‘dead’ so literal. More so just the head crushing football we used to watch is on its way out whether you like it or not.

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1 minute ago, Jerz said:

I will watch until the wheels fall off. But this is a sad revelation and reinforces why they are changing so many rules and why it will soon not be the same sport we watched growing up.

Don’t take the word ‘dead’ so literal. More so just the head crushing football we used to watch is on its way out whether you like it or not.

This is nothing new though.  CTE has been around for years, they just now are able to put a face on the monster.

"Head crushing" football should go away, I'm not sad to see it go.  There are better ways to play the game without using your helmet as a weapon...and if you are worried about the long term sustainability of the game, these new rules are going to prolong the quality of the game by prolonging the careers of it's players.

And you used the word 'dead' not me...I'm just quoting your words.

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Joe Paterno once said that they should play without helmets to better teach players how to tackle correctly.  I don't necessarily agree with it, BUT players should have it (figuratively) drilled into their heads to use shoulders correctly and not lead with the head.  The game is violent, that's understood.  Players (and parents) should fully understand the risks of playing such a collision based sport.  It's a shame that former players are committing suicide because they can no longer deal with the headaches and blackouts that come with concussion type injuries. 

 

I have always thought that once a player has either 2 grade 2 or 3 grade 1 concussions they should be forced to give up the game.  The NFL could appoint a committee of doctors with NO affiliation to any team to be the ones to grade out concussions and make the final ruling as to what kind of concussion and to keep the records of how many a player has had.  I understand that players could've had 1 in high school, 1 in college and none in the NFL, and that should all be considereed when forming a result. 

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Not even close to dead as it's still by far the largest revenue earning sports league in the world. However, like other once "too big to fail" entities like IBM/ESPN, it's trending downwards.

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1 minute ago, athell said:

This is nothing new though.  CTE has been around for years, they just now are able to put a face on the monster.

"Head crushing" football should go away, I'm not sad to see it go.  There are better ways to play the game without using your helmet as a weapon...and if you are worried about the long term sustainability of the game, these new rules are going to prolong the quality of the game by prolonging the careers of it's players.

And you used the word 'dead' not me...I'm just quoting your words.

Yeah CTE has been around but when you start to find it in players that haven’t even reached 25 you’ll see more of an urgency to solve it. It may get to a point where a player wont be able to have any contact with his helmet whether it was incidental or intentional.

These new rules are not a guarantee to prolong anything. For all we know it just may be a short term “fix”. Whether it has any substantial benefit to players safety is to be determined.

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Just now, Jerz said:

Yeah CTE has been around but when you start to find it in players that haven’t even reached 25 you’ll see more of an urgency to solve it. It may get to a point where a player wont be able to have any contact with his helmet whether it was incidental or intentional.

These new rules are not a guarantee to prolong anything. For all we know it just may be a short term “fix”. Whether it has any substantial benefit to players safety is to be determined.

If they had the testing they have today (and future testing to determine prognosis in living patients) you will see it's always been like this.  Nothing has changed.

And yeah, of course nothing in football is guaranteed to do anything.  However, making helmet to helmet contact illegal should go a long way in limiting the risk of concussions.  Which, at the end of the day, is all you can do in a collision sport.  They will never eliminate them, but they should, and are, taking steps to decrease the chances of them.

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9 minutes ago, athell said:

This is nothing new though.  CTE has been around for years, they just now are able to put a face on the monster.

"Head crushing" football should go away, I'm not sad to see it go.  There are better ways to play the game without using your helmet as a weapon...and if you are worried about the long term sustainability of the game, these new rules are going to prolong the quality of the game by prolonging the careers of it's players.

And you used the word 'dead' not me...I'm just quoting your words.

Problem is the "head crushing" hits are not what is causing the brain damage necessarily, hard falls to the turf, whiplash and all sorts of other types of collisions can cause brain damage. Turns out the brain is extremely vulnerable, and we are just starting to understand exactly how easy it is to cause close to irreversable damage. Truth is there may be no brain-safe way to play touch football. Football is not dead yet but IMO it's days are numbered. We either invent a way to treat concussive brain damage or parents will eventually stop their children from ever touching the sport. 

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I think the new helmets being introduced are going to have a positive long-term effect. It will take about a decade to get results because you've got to have a large sample size.

Also, @athell is correct, CTE has always been around, we just didn't know the effects of it or how soon it appeared in football players because players weren't scanned for it until recently, and it can't be diagnosed except by autopsy and it wasn't something that was checked for in previous generations of football players who died.

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1 minute ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Problem is the "head crushing" hits are not what is causing the brain damage necessarily, hard falls to the turf, whiplash and all sorts of other types of collisions can cause brain damage. Turns out the brain is extremely vulnerable, and we are just starting to understand exactly how easy it is to cause close to irreversable damage. Truth is there may be no brain-safe way to play touch football. Football is not dead yet but IMO it's days are numbered. We either invent a way to treat concussive brain damage or parents will eventually stop their children from ever touching the sport. 

Exactly.  It's all the subconcussive hits that do all the damage and then you get that "head crushing" hit that ends up being the straw that breaks the camel's brain...

I don't know what the future of football is, however, the fact that people seem to be more concerned over the anthem than concussions leads me to believe there will be plenty of resources for the league in the future.  For every 1 parent who forbids their kid from playing, there are a dozen who are pushing them to play.  Football isn't going anywhere, and there is far too much money to be made for all for them to sit back and allow it to fade.  They will come up with ways to spin this, they always do.  The NFL is a cash cow that can print it's own money...maybe they start spending some of it on further research and prevention...ya right!

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17 minutes ago, Jerz said:

I will watch until the wheels fall off. But this is a sad revelation and reinforces why they are changing so many rules and why it will soon not be the same sport we watched growing up.

Don’t take the word ‘dead’ so literal. More so just the head crushing football we used to watch is on its way out whether you like it or not.

You do realize the game we watch today isn't necessarily the same game our parents watched?

The passing game isn't close to what it is today as most teams ran the ball and the WRs could get mugged, punched, and essentially crippled going over the middle.

Good teams were better for longer because there was no Free Agency and no salary cap.

The sport evolves as the athletes have.

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2 minutes ago, athell said:

If they had the testing they have today (and future testing to determine prognosis in living patients) you will see it's always been like this.  Nothing has changed.

And yeah, of course nothing in football is guaranteed to do anything.  However, making helmet to helmet contact illegal should go a long way in limiting the risk of concussions.  Which, at the end of the day, is all you can do in a collision sport.  They will never eliminate them, but they should, and are, taking steps to decrease the chances of them.

Helmet to helmet contact has been illegal for a while. Its now the crown of your helmet can’t be used in any instance of a tackle. Who says it stops there? We havent even seen the rule in motion. I hope its effective though.

Its just you also have to think about lower levels of the game. I was just having this conversation two days ago about letting your child play and I was surprised to see people who love football wouldnt let their son play at all.

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6 minutes ago, athell said:

Exactly.  It's all the subconcussive hits that do all the damage and then you get that "head crushing" hit that ends up being the straw that breaks the camel's brain...

I don't know what the future of football is, however, the fact that people seem to be more concerned over the anthem than concussions leads me to believe there will be plenty of resources for the league in the future.  For every 1 parent who forbids their kid from playing, there are a dozen who are pushing them to play.  Football isn't going anywhere, and there is far too much money to be made for all for them to sit back and allow it to fade.  They will come up with ways to spin this, they always do.  The NFL is a cash cow that can print it's own money...maybe they start spending some of it on further research and prevention...ya right!

Which is why I believe the new helmets will help. They give when a player's head slams into the ground to dissipate the energy away from the brain. That's different than the old helmets. The old helmets didn't give, and all that energy had to go somewhere and that was straight to the brain. It's similar to what NASCAR did several years ago. They installed what are called SAFER barriers (walls). The walls give when the cars hit them to dissipate the energy and lessen the blow to the driver. It's why I'm encouraged about these new helmets and why I think they'll help to reduce head trauma.

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20 minutes ago, ⚡Slumerican⚡ said:

Cte isn't caused by football alone. Nice knee jerk reaction 

True, but considering thats where most of the reports of CTE come from (and this is a football message board), you can see why the OP would blame it on football.

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4 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Which is why I believe the new helmets will help. They give when a player's head slams into the ground to dissipate the energy away from the brain. That's different than the old helmets. The old helmets didn't give, and all that energy had to go somewhere and that was straight to the brain. It's similar to what NASCAR did several years ago. They installed what are called SAFER barriers (walls). The walls give when the cars hit them to dissipate the energy and lessen the blow to the driver. It's why I'm encouraged about these new helmets and why I think they'll help to reduce head trauma.

Agreed. I also cant help but parallel Nascar and the NFL. Nascar was HUGE for a long time but has declined drastically over the years. I hope the NFL doesnt follow the same path but recent years have me more skeptical.  

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24 minutes ago, CrimsonFalcon said:

Joe Paterno once said that they should play without helmets to better teach players how to tackle correctly.  I don't necessarily agree with it, BUT players should have it (figuratively) drilled into their heads to use shoulders correctly and not lead with the head.  The game is violent, that's understood.  Players (and parents) should fully understand the risks of playing such a collision based sport.  It's a shame that former players are committing suicide because they can no longer deal with the headaches and blackouts that come with concussion type injuries. 

 

I have always thought that once a player has either 2 grade 2 or 3 grade 1 concussions they should be forced to give up the game.  The NFL could appoint a committee of doctors with NO affiliation to any team to be the ones to grade out concussions and make the final ruling as to what kind of concussion and to keep the records of how many a player has had.  I understand that players could've had 1 in high school, 1 in college and none in the NFL, and that should all be considereed when forming a result. 

NFL took a big step towards this a couple years ago when they appointed doctors to be on the sidelines for each game and examine players for concussions before letting them go back into the game. By making the officials force any player that looks to be concussed off the field to be examined. I don't think they can as far as you've suggested, although I think it's a good idea. But it would be awfully hard to force a player's hand like that and basically ban them from playing. NFLPA would throw a major fit.

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19 minutes ago, athell said:

Exactly.  It's all the subconcussive hits that do all the damage and then you get that "head crushing" hit that ends up being the straw that breaks the camel's brain...

I don't know what the future of football is, however, the fact that people seem to be more concerned over the anthem than concussions leads me to believe there will be plenty of resources for the league in the future.  For every 1 parent who forbids their kid from playing, there are a dozen who are pushing them to play.  Football isn't going anywhere, and there is far too much money to be made for all for them to sit back and allow it to fade.  They will come up with ways to spin this, they always do.  The NFL is a cash cow that can print it's own money...maybe they start spending some of it on further research and prevention...ya right!

 

Yep, I see football as similar to boxing. People know that both are bad for your brain long-term. The reason why both sports will continue to live is because of multiple reasons.

1. They provide ways out for many who came from poverish backgrounds.

2. People still find the sports very entertaining as spectators and fans.

3. M.O.N.E.Y. 

These sports are even more valuable now that legalized sports gambling is starting to become more nationwide in the near future. With the NFL and NCAA being arguably the most lucrative in gambling.

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Just now, Falconsfan567 said:

NFL took a big step towards this a couple years ago when they appointed doctors to be on the sidelines for each game and examine players for concussions before letting them go back into the game. By making the officials force any player that looks to be concussed off the field to be examined. I don't think they can as far as you've suggested, although I think it's a good idea. But it would be awfully hard to force a player's hand like that and basically ban them from playing. NFLPA would throw a major fit.

I think you may be right on the bolded part, but at the same time, I could see the NFLPA looking out for their best interests as well by siding with the "3 strikes and you're out" idea.

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54 minutes ago, Jerz said:

This game will never be the same. The rule changes will be so drastic that it just might not be enjoyable anymore. This guy was just a college QB, now imagine how someone like Freemans brain looks. 

Is UFC dead?

Seriously how do we know that these are the majority of cases? If you look at all the NFL players that are retired, most go on to live long and normal lives. I think as a society we tend to over magnify the minority while dismissing the majority.

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1 hour ago, Jerz said:

This game will never be the same. The rule changes will be so drastic that it just might not be enjoyable anymore. This guy was just a college QB, now imagine how someone like Freemans brain looks. 

So, sad he is gone and feel for his family! But, is it proven that football caused the CTE? Is that the only thing that causes CTE? Can we rule out him getting dropped on his head a few times as a baby!? 

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