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How would a new contract for Julio affect paying for other players next year?

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36 minutes ago, Peyton said:

But here is the thing about that.  When the Falcons really needed Julio to make a play last year or to set the tone, he really couldn't or didn't do it.  The one game where he really dominated was against a really bad Tampa defense.

That's why his timing is soo bad.  Generational talent or not, his impact wasn't enough last year to be justifying what he is doing here.

This is absurd. 

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5 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I'd volunteer to drive that mofo out to the state line and drop him off in Alabama.

The leading receiver on the last NFL Championship team was a fkn TE with a whopping 850 yards bro.

What part of that don't yall understand?

The starting QB for the last NFL Championship team was a back-up who had washed out of numerous other spots. 

I guess that means we can just move forward with backup QBs!

Or you're making a laughable error in logic.

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10 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I'd volunteer to drive that mofo out to the state line and drop him off in Alabama.

The leading receiver on the last NFL Championship team was a fkn TE with a whopping 850 yards bro.

What part of that don't yall understand?

I understand all of it. Here is what I don't understand though: If he sucks, why do you even care to comment? If you'd just as soon drive him out of town because of his negativity, you should hope he doesn't show up and bring the team down, the ungrateful SOB. Doesn't he know that great receivers don't help teams win Super Bowls?

What part of that don't y'all understand?

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3 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

I was being over the top with that statement. But if he's hurt, suggesting that he play is selfish and potentially counter-productive because he can injure himself. And even if he doesn't, playing hurt will get fans to question how good he is if he's not accumulating his NFL record YPG average. People don't care about the person nearly as much as they care about the player, I guess.

Only point that I really want to make is that teams are remarkably reactive to player performance. Not living up to your deal? Take a cut in pay or hit the bricks. But on the flip side: Outplaying your deal? So what? You signed for what we're paying you, you selfish SOB. 

Why do fans side with strong armed tactics from management over those from players? I relate much more with Julio than Arthur Blank.

Strong armed tactics ?  You mean agreeing to a deal that made him the highest paid WR in the league ?  

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1 minute ago, JayOzOne said:

I understand all of it. Here is what I don't understand though: If he sucks, why do you even care to comment? If you'd just as soon drive him out of town because of his negativity, you should hope he doesn't show up and bring the team down, the ungrateful SOB.

What part of that don't y'all understand?

 

Simple: he's a malcontent. This is his schtick. He's taken up the mantle from bygone trolls. 

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Just now, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Simple: he's a malcontent. This is his schtick. He's taken up the mantle from bygone trolls. 

I hate the guy, myself. I always knew this day was coming. Football is my escape and he's treating it like a business. Who does he think he is?

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22 minutes ago, notthatcool said:

Trent Williams 5 for 68M

Joe Staley 6 for 44.6 

Jake's rookie deal is 4 for 16.4M, so yea he's about to get paid.  If not here.... somewhere.  And keep an eye on Taylor Lewan (who skipped camp) and see what he gets.  

If he expects or feels he's getting anything above top 8 average salary for position here he crazy lol. Not saying he isn't gone get paid but top 3 at his position yea right, lewan different story 

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2 minutes ago, Dirtybird3 said:

If he expects or feels he's getting anything above top 8 average salary for position here he crazy lol. Not saying he isn't gone get paid but top 3 at his position yea right, lewan different story 

Except that Lewan isnt appreciably better than Matthews. They're exceedingly comparable players. 

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Just now, JayOzOne said:

That grass is awful green in Nashville, ain't it?

Being a loudmouth helps win the image battle. 

FTR, he's a good young tackle. Just like Matthews. Both of them will get paid and both of them deserve to get paid. They're rare birds in a league which is currently struggling to find good+ offensive linemen. 

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Just now, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Being a loudmouth helps win the image battle. 

FTR, he's a good young tackle. Just like Matthews. Both of them will get paid and both of them deserve to get paid. They're rare birds in a league which is currently struggling to find good+ offensive linemen. 

Yeah, timing is everything when there's a dearth of quality at your position. Sam "Short Arms" Baker can tell you about that.

BTW: Do I get extra points by being the first person (I presume) to use "dearth" in a post in 2018? I'm betting only Gazoo uses that word around here but also that he hasn't.

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13 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Except that Lewan isnt appreciably better than Matthews. They're exceedingly comparable players. 

According to who? 

Taylor Lewan has been voted to two Pro Bowls already and voted by his peers as a top 100 player in the NFL.

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8 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Right now we are $32.2M under the cap for the 2019 season according to OverTheCap. This does not include Grady Jarrett, Jake Matthews, Andy Levitre, Rico Allen, Tevin Coleman, Terrell McClain, Matt Schaub, Derrick Shelby, Kemal Ishmael, Justin Hardy, Justin Bethel and other role players who'll be free agents after this season. Nor does it include Calvin Ridley who has yet to sign. So here's the 2019 roster we're looking at (minus the 21 camp bodies on league minimum deals - $12M cap credit):

QB - (0) - Ryan, Grayson
RB - (2) - Free, Ito
WR - (1) - Julio, Sanu, Gage, Fuller, Davis
TE - (1) - Hoop, Saubert
OT - (3) - Shraeder
OG - (1) - Fusco, Schweitzer, Harlow
OC - (1) - Mack
DE - (2) - Beas, Takk, Reed
DT - (2) - Senat, Crawford
LB - (2) - Debo, Campbell, Duke, Oluokun
CB - (2) - Tru, Alf, Oliver
SS - (2) - Neal
FS - (1) - Kazee
ST - (1) - Bryant, Bosher

Right now that's a weak as roster. We'll probably have to add several starters (LT, DT, FS, OG, FB and LS), plus 15 back ups. Just to fill out the 53 man squad. That will likely take $45M+ of cap space. Not a lot of wiggle room.

Stop the scare mongering we already had this conversation this off season when you thought we were in similar trouble this season yet the Falcons right now are still 5 mill under this year's cap.

If you look at what we've drafted the 3 of the last 4 years that should have given you a moment of pause.I been telling alot on here all this does is put pressure on the drafting and as above 3 out of the 4 years it looks like we've hit it out of the Park.

So I'm not sure why so many including yourself are worried about the cap.

All the FO have to do now if they haven't already is identify the main guy's there going to pay going foward and structure and time the money and the releases to fit who they deem the most important.

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39 minutes ago, Dirtybird3 said:

If he expects or feels he's getting anything above top 8 average salary for position here he crazy lol. Not saying he isn't gone get paid but top 3 at his position yea right, lewan different story 

Nate Solder (Who Jake is slighty better than) just signed for 15 mil a year and reset the market. Jake should get something in and around there. Its the going rate for an above average LT now.

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1 hour ago, Peyton said:

But here is the thing about that.  When the Falcons really needed Julio to make a play last year or to set the tone, he really couldn't or didn't do it.  The one game where he really dominated was against a really bad Tampa defense.

That's why his timing is soo bad.  Generational talent or not, his impact wasn't enough last year to be justifying what he is doing here.

Cmon man stop cherry picking it's almost like everyone forgot the catch in the SB already that should have won the game.

Generaional talent don't come around often in this case I do what ever it has to be done to make things right for both parties.

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58 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

This is absurd. 

Is it absurd?

Tell me if this stat seems a little bit strange for a player who is a "generational talent" and "the best WR in the league".

In his 7 year career, Julio Jones has never scored a TD in the last 4 minutes of a game the Falcons were losing.

In the last two seasons, he's only caught one pass in the last two minutes of the Falcons 11 losses. 

You know why it is hard to remember those times when Julio saved the Falcons in the clutch?  Because they didn't happen.

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10 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Is it absurd?

Tell me if this stat seems a little bit strange for a player who is a "generational talent" and "the best WR in the league".

In his 7 year career, Julio Jones has never scored a TD in the last 4 minutes of a game the Falcons were losing.

In the last two seasons, he's only caught one pass in the last two minutes of the Falcons 11 losses. 

You know why it is hard to remember those times when Julio saved the Falcons in the clutch?  Because they didn't happen.

And here we are, still talking about a guy who isn't clutch. Seems like we won't be missing much if we don't pay him and he doesn't show up.

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14 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Is it absurd?

Tell me if this stat seems a little bit strange for a player who is a "generational talent" and "the best WR in the league".

In his 7 year career, Julio Jones has never scored a TD in the last 4 minutes of a game the Falcons were losing.

In the last two seasons, he's only caught one pass in the last two minutes of the Falcons 11 losses. 

You know why it is hard to remember those times when Julio saved the Falcons in the clutch?  Because they didn't happen.

What's absurd is your thinking that TDs are the end all, be all for a wide receiver. 

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2 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

And here we are, still talking about a guy who isn't clutch. Seems like we won't be missing much if we don't pay him and he doesn't show up.

My argument is that he is fairly compensated for what he brings.

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Since this place is still SB or bust how bout the catch in the 2016 SB that should have won us the game how many players on the offense you got making that play?

How bout the fact that he pretty much carried us while playing hurt in the above mentioned games.

What a laugher thinking taking Julio Jones out of this team the team will keep rolling whoever thinks that is smoking crack straight up.Who else on this team takes doubles and triples on almost every play.If anything this is a big reason why Julio can't get in the end zone as many as some talk about but you can bet because of the Julio effect others will.

 

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

What's absurd is your thinking that TDs are the end all, be all for a wide receiver. 

Making plays in clutch time has to be part of the equation for a guy who wants his contract renegotiated in the middle of it, when he is already making 14 mil a year.

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2 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Making plays in clutch time has to be part of the equation for a guy who wants his contract renegotiated in the middle of it, when he is already making 14 mil a year.

2016 playoffs SB and NFCCG huge games.

2012 NFCCG clutch I don't even know what too say to that the guys been that for the Falcons his whole career.

Come the big games when it matters are you saying #11 goes missing ?

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15 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Is it absurd?

Tell me if this stat seems a little bit strange for a player who is a "generational talent" and "the best WR in the league".

In his 7 year career, Julio Jones has never scored a TD in the last 4 minutes of a game the Falcons were losing.

In the last two seasons, he's only caught one pass in the last two minutes of the Falcons 11 losses. 

You know why it is hard to remember those times when Julio saved the Falcons in the clutch?  Because they didn't happen.

He scored the game tying TD against Tampa in 2015. Week 8. 17 seconds left on the clock.

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46 minutes ago, Peyton said:

According to who? 

Taylor Lewan has been voted to two Pro Bowls already and voted by his peers as a top 100 player in the NFL.

Ugh. I typed out a huge response and it got deleted. Anyway, I'll do it again....

Lewan has received more accolades....likely because he's a much more boisterous player on a team that has been decent without much star power. But their on the field performance has been remarkably similar. Matthews was slightly better in Y1, considerably better in Y2, worse in Y3 and equal in Y4. 

Bleacher Report's B/R1000 feature is put together by some of the best football writers in the industry. For the 2017 season, they had Matthews 8th and Lewan 7th. For 2016, they had Lewan 9th and Matthews 12th, although the difference between them was attributed to "agility" and not indexed to actual pass blocking or run blocking. 

Last year, PFF had Lewan 16th among tackles (which I believe means ALL tackles). Matthews was 14th. 

The Football Outsiders Almanac contains annual charting data for most of the players in the league. Here's how the two compare:

In 2014, Matthews played 944 snaps, had 11 penalties, allowed 4 sacks, blew 21 pass blocks and 6 run blocks. On runs charted to "left tackle" the Falcons were 6th in the league. Lewan played 353 snaps, had 4 penalties, allowed 4 sacks, blew 6 pass blocks and 1.5 run blocks. On runs charted to "left tackle" the Titans were 7th in the league. 

In 2015, Matthews played 1127 snaps, had 4 penalties, allowed 2 sacks, blew 6 pass blocks and 2 run blocks. On runs charted to "left tackle" the Falcons were 15th in the league. Lewan played 911 snaps, had 10 penalties, allowed 4.5 sacks, blew 5.5 pass blocks and 3 run blocks. On runs charted to "left tackle" the Titans were 16th in the league. 

In 2016, Matthews played 978 snaps, had 8 penalties, allowed 5.5 sacks, blew 17 pass blocks and 7 run blocks. On runs charted to "left tackle" the Falcons were 10th in the league. Lewan played 989 snaps, had 14 penalties, allowed 2.5 sacks, blew 7 pass blocks and 7 run blocks. On runs charted to "left tackle" the Titans were 1st in the league. 

In 2017, I dont have individual player for the 2017 season yet but FO has the team run data. On runs charted to "left tackle" the Falcons were 3rd in the league. On runs charted to "left tackle" the Titans were 25th in the league. 

Keep in mind, things like "sacks allowed" and "blown blocks" can be helpful but dont necessarily mean bad play...particularly sacks allowed. Nor do they account for quality of opponent or scheme. Still, to the extent that the two have "production" their production is very similar. Their recent subjective evaluations have been similar. There are certainly stylistic differences there and Lewan is the more...."charismatic" of the two players. But in terms of player quality, there hasnt been much difference over the course of their first four seasons. 

Leaving aside the questions about whether Pro Bowls are reliable measures of player performance (Duane Brown made the Pro Bowl last year......for the Seahawks....think about that for a second) Lewan has two Pro Bowl appearances because he plays in a conference with a relative dearth of "name" left tackles. Its basically Joe Thomas and thats it.  Unfortunately for Matthews, he's spent his career in the same conference as Tyron Smith, Trent Williams, and Jason Peters. Not to mention other ++ left tackles of lesser profiles including David Bahktiari and Joe Staley (and now Andre Whitworth, although he was in the AFC prior to 2017.) He also never says a word. 

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