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How would a new contract for Julio affect paying for other players next year?

160 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

I'm not disagreeing with you for the most part. I respect you're opinion. He's objectively one of the top three receivers in the league though. All I'm saying, is that if we want 100%, he shouldn't give anything more than that. Don't play through pain. If you're paid like the eighth best receiver with no guarantees, play like the eighth best receiver and take care of yourself to make sure you're going to be able to make it for the length of the contract.

I respect you and your opinion as well , just chewing the fat here ,  I just think caving in will ruin this team , I think his attitude gets worse , his toe hurts more , especially on 3rd down , I mentioned it halfway thru last year , that Julio was approaching divaness , the star , who went about his craft in a workmans way, had changed , and I got laughed at by some .  I dont know what happens from here , but Im betting, it  doesnt get better , new contract or not . 

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2 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

If they thought he was overpaid, their leverage is to cut him. And if he'd be scooped up in 15 minutes with fewer catches and yards, that is a testament to his value. If you're right, then he's underpaid compared to his market value. So all of the "Julio is trash, cut him" chatter is just that. Chatter.

Well anybody that says the Falcons should cut Julio is an idiot.  If he doesn't come to work though, they have to at least listen to offers for him.

There's nothing wrong with his contract, no matter how many other bad contracts get signed in the NFL.  He has an excellent agent who got him an excellent deal.

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12 minutes ago, notthatcool said:

The Cowboys just signed Guard Zack Martin 6 years for 84M.  40M guaranteed.    

He's nowhere near Zach Martin 

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5 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Well anybody that says the Falcons should cut Julio is an idiot.  If he doesn't come to work though, they have to at least listen to offers for him.

There's nothing wrong with his contract, no matter how many other bad contracts get signed in the NFL.  He has an excellent agent who got him an excellent deal.

There's a surprising number of idiots on these boards. Personally, I'd always listen to offers for every player. It might be a win-win if somebody is willing to give him what he wants and we get commensurate value. But trading or cutting as a matter of general principle (as many of our associates suggest) is the height of having a knee jerk reaction. We all know that this is going to get resolved with minimal impact on the team and minimal embarrassment for Julio. Too many people are losing sleep over it. And as for whether it sets a bad example, I hope we have another generational level player in the future to worry about. We might not see another Julio Jones (or Matt Ryan) for 20 years, so that's less of a concern for me.

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6 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Well anybody that says the Falcons should cut Julio is an idiot.  If he doesn't come to work though, they have to at least listen to offers for him.

There's nothing wrong with his contract, no matter how many other bad contracts get signed in the NFL.  He has an excellent agent who got him an excellent deal.

Exactly , no way you cut him , but I trade him before I let him tear this team apart , . I  think the FO should guarantee his current contract , no more , no less , If thats not good enough , get the best deal you can. 

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Just now, Slappywhite said:

Exactly , no way you cut him , but I trade him before I let him tear this team apart , . I  think the FO should guarantee his current contract , no more , no less , If thats not good enough , get the best deal you can. 

"Tear this team apart"? Alrighty then...

giphy.gif

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2 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

There's a surprising number of idiots on these boards. Personally, I'd always listen to offers for every player. It might be a win-win if somebody is willing to give him what he wants and we get commensurate value. But trading or cutting as a matter of general principle (as many of our associates suggest) is the height of having a knee jerk reaction. We all know that this is going to get resolved with minimal impact on the team and minimal embarrassment for Julio. Too many people are losing sleep over it. And as for whether it sets a bad example, I hope we have another generational level player in the future to worry about. We might not see another Julio Jones (or Matt Ryan) for 20 years, so that's less of a concern for me.

But here is the thing about that.  When the Falcons really needed Julio to make a play last year or to set the tone, he really couldn't or didn't do it.  The one game where he really dominated was against a really bad Tampa defense.

That's why his timing is soo bad.  Generational talent or not, his impact wasn't enough last year to be justifying what he is doing here.

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2 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

"Tear this team apart"? Alrighty then...

giphy.gifthe FO caved in ti 

Having players wanting contracts tore up and redone in the 2nd yr of those contracts , because the FO caved into Julio , will do just that . 

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54 minutes ago, ukfalc said:

I can’t see us keeping Freeman and Coleman after this season. I would imagine that we’d let Tyco hit the market, but wonder if we could pay him him and let Free go if he has more concussion issues in 2018.

I also don’t see how we can pay market value to keep Mathews, Beasley, Grady, Debo and Neal going forward. My instinct is that we can probably expect to lose a couple of players from that list, unless we shed a couple of other big veteran contracts to make room. I could see Mack being a cap casualty simply due to his age, and wonder whether Tru could also be possibility.

As for Julio, I think we should play hardball. If the cap is an issue going forward, I would prioritise the resigning of Mathews, Beasley, Grady, Debo and Neal above paying Julio. I am not saying that they are better players than Julio,  but I consider WR to be one of the less valuable positions in the NFL. Based on age, health, and position value, I think Mathews, Beasley, Grady, Debo and Neal are all more important to us going forward than #11.

Excellent post. I would try to keep Free and Teco though. If we integrate them into the passing game more I think we could offset Julio and be even more dangerous. Add a big back in the mix too.

We're going to lose several key starters pretty soon and will need as much cap space as possible to stay competitive in the league, conference and division. I don't think many TATFers fully realize this yet.

I'd be exploring trades right now. There's a sucker team out there. Find it. Gotta protect The Brotherhood. Julio averages 10 targets, 96 yards and 0.4 TDs per game. I think we could replace that if we spread those to Free, Teco, Ridley, Sanu, Hoop, Hardy and a couple surprise targets.

If I couldn't find a trade partner I'd play hard ball. That would be a boss move by Dimi. Julio already played hard ball. Call his bluff. Don't cave. For a decade now teams have been winning Lombardies without an ornament. We had seven chances with him and failed. I didn't think 2011 was the time to hitch our wagon to him and definitely don't in 2018.

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Just now, Slappywhite said:

Having players wanting contracts tore up and redone in the 2nd yr of those contracts , because the FO caved into Julio , will do just that . 

Every player isn't the best player on the team. This won't set precedent for future problems, just like Roddy's holdout didn't lead to more problems.

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Just now, JayOzOne said:

Every player isn't the best player on the team. This won't set precedent for future problems, just like Roddy's holdout didn't lead to more problems.

Roddy was in the last season of his rookie contract, everybody understood why he held out.  Even the front office, which is why it got done.  This one is out of left field.

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3 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Excellent post. I would try to keep Free and Teco though. If we integrate them into the passing game more I think we could offset Julio and be even more dangerous. Add a big back in the mix too.

We're going to lose several key starters pretty soon and will need as much cap space as possible to stay competitive in the league, conference and division. I don't think many TATFers fully realize this yet.

I'd be exploring trades right now. There's a sucker team out there. Find it. Gotta protect The Brotherhood. Julio averages 10 targets, 96 yards and 0.4 TDs per game. I think we could replace that if we spread those to Free, Teco, Ridley, Sanu, Hoop, Hardy and a couple surprise targets.

If I couldn't find a trade partner I'd play hard ball. That would be a boss move by Dimi. Julio already played hard ball. Call his bluff. Don't cave. For a decade now teams have been winning Lombardies without an ornament. We had seven chances with him and failed. I didn't think 2011 was the time to hitch our wagon to him and definitely don't in 2018.

Given the history of the franchise in the last ten years, it's surprising that some people have this idea that this team would be set back in some substantial way by losing Julio.

I mean, do people not remember 2007?  This team was left for dead.  Multiple media outlets suggested the Falcons would go 0-16 in 2008.  The team ripped off 5 straight winning seasons.

This team, unlike the 2008 team, is absolutely loaded.  Everything is going to be OK, Julio or no Julio.

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Just now, Peyton said:

Roddy was in the last season of his rookie contract, everybody understood why he held out.  Even the front office, which is why it got done.  This one is out of left field.

No, it's not. The same arguments were being made back then that are being made this year. It's a business from both ends and it will resolve itself for better or ill. Regardless, the words of Donald Rumsfeld, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. If Julio's not playing, we're still stacked. And if it's a matter of principle, we should be giddy at the prospect of losing without him in order to maintain our high ground.

Again, I'm not faulting the team if we decide to let him hold out until game 10. But I'm also not faulting Julio because I would probably be doing the same thing.

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1 hour ago, Dirtybird3 said:

Jake to me shouldn't be mention as a potential big deal. He's better than 'average' but I don't see him as a big number compared to others at his position. 

Despite being the 8th to 15th best LT IMO, he will get a big deal. Especially if he improves this year. Big cap hitter.

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41 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

I'm not disagreeing with you for the most part. I respect you're opinion. He's objectively one of the top three receivers in the league though. All I'm saying, is that if we want 100%, he shouldn't give anything more than that. Don't play through pain. If you're paid like the eighth best receiver with no guarantees, play like the eighth best receiver and take care of yourself to make sure you're going to be able to make it for the length of the contract.

Kidding right? If that's his mindset I'd cut that mofo right after I exhausted all trade options and take the cap relief.

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Just now, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Kidding right? If that's his mindset I'd cut that mofo right after I exhausted all trade options and take the cap relief.

Agreed , I'd jettison , him and anyone else not giving 100 ,  Patriot style . 

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Just now, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Kidding right? If that's his mindset I'd cut that mofo right after I exhausted all trade options and take the cap relief.

Good for you. As stated, you'd get what you wanted by doing it and he'd be snatched up 5 minutes after hitting the market (probably with more from his next team than he's asking from us). But you showed him, shrewd businessman that you are.

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1 minute ago, Slappywhite said:

Agreed , I'd jettison , him and anyone else not giving 100 ,  Patriot style . 

Where did I suggest he not give 100%? By saying he shouldn't play through pain if it's going to potentially cut his career short with years left on an unpaid contract? I'm pretty sure no contract requires anyone to play when hurt.

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2 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

No, it's not. The same arguments were being made back then that are being made this year.

I just think the comparison to Roddy White is a really bad comparison.  Roddy was due for his first big payday, using the standard that TD has actually stated is the Falcons standard. "We like to do the deal with one year left".  Roddy was due to make 800,000 in the final year of his contract.  That's a little bit more than what one game check will be for Julio this year, should he come to work.

I just think those things aren't the same at all.

As I've said, i'd support a Grady Jarrett holdout.  I'd be all behind him.  Now THAT would be like the Roddy White holdout.

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19 minutes ago, Dirtybird3 said:

He's nowhere near Zach Martin 

Trent Williams 5 for 68M

Joe Staley 6 for 44.6 

Jake's rookie deal is 4 for 16.4M, so yea he's about to get paid.  If not here.... somewhere.  And keep an eye on Taylor Lewan (who skipped camp) and see what he gets.  

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50 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

I'm not disagreeing with you for the most part. I respect you're opinion. He's objectively one of the top three receivers in the league though. All I'm saying, is that if we want 100%, he shouldn't give anything more than that. Don't play through pain. If you're paid like the eighth best receiver with no guarantees, play like the eighth best receiver and take care of yourself to make sure you're going to be able to make it for the length of the contract.

If he's playing like the 8th best receiver , he's not giving 100 , he's better than that .  Im on record saying , guarentee his whole contract , no more , no less and expect 100 . 

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1 minute ago, Peyton said:

I just think the comparison to Roddy White is a really bad comparison.  Roddy was due for his first big payday, using the standard that TD has actually stated is the Falcons standard. "We like to do the deal with one year left".  Roddy was due to make 800,000 in the final year of his contract.  That's a little bit more than what one game check will be for Julio this year, should he come to work.

I just think those things aren't the same at all.

As I've said, i'd support a Grady Jarrett holdout.  I'd be all behind him.  Now THAT would be like the Roddy White holdout.

Oh, I understand. My point was that many of the over-the-top comments being made about Julio were said about Roddy, same situation or not. I honestly have zero emotional investment in how this turns out.

So that you understand where I stand on this: I personally think that anybody who signs a contract should honor it. But I feel that way from both sides, management and player. And yeah, Julio signed his deal and may have to live with it. But I have seen too many guys go down in OTAs and mini-camps and practice around the league to think that a guy who avoids offseason activity is selfish when an injury can cost him everything. Not saying that he's right to hold that perspective, only that I understand it and would have to consider it if I was him.

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2 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

Oh, I understand. My point was that many of the over-the-top comments being made about Julio were said about Roddy, same situation or not. I honestly have zero emotional investment in how this turns out.

So that you understand where I stand on this: I personally think that anybody who signs a contract should honor it. But I feel that way from both sides, management and player. And yeah, Julio signed his deal and may have to live with it. But I have seen too many guys go down in OTAs and mini-camps and practice around the league to think that a guy who avoids offseason activity is selfish when an injury can cost him everything. Not saying that he's right to hold that perspective, only that I understand it and would have to consider it if I was him.

Absolutely agreed. He's earned the right to have his current  contract guaranteed . 

Edited by Slappywhite
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1 minute ago, JayOzOne said:

Oh, I understand. My point was that many of the over-the-top comments being made about Julio were said about Roddy, same situation or not. I honestly have zero emotional investment in how this turns out.

Ok, I agree.  A lot of the fans were not on Roddy's side. 

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11 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

Good for you. As stated, you'd get what you wanted by doing it and he'd be snatched up 5 minutes after hitting the market (probably with more from his next team than he's asking from us). But you showed him, shrewd businessman that you are.

I'd volunteer to drive that mofo out to the state line and drop him off in Alabama.

The leading receiver on the last NFL Championship team was a fkn TE with a whopping 850 yards bro.

What part of that don't yall understand?

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