Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
ket222

How would a new contract for Julio affect paying for other players next year?

160 posts in this topic

Please forgive me for another Julio topic.  This is the one time I will do this but it seems like an interesting question that goes well beyond Julio. 

Basically with Ryan's huge contract (even though it seems about the same percentage we'll be paying for him in the future from what people here have pointed out) ... how much extra is Julio asking for and what would it mean to signing our other players over the next 2-3 years?  Can you see us also keeping our best young defensive talent when their contracts come up?  will we have enough money to keep this team largely in tact for 2-3 years? 

I love Tevin coleman--any way we keep him? 

so who is up for a new contract or will most likely have to leave the falcons because of giving more money to Julio? 

finally, doesn't Julio have three more years on the contract?  what if we just don't pay him any more (or rearrange the contract with more money up front)?  would Julio become disgruntled and start to suck or even demand a trade?  what typically happens in these circumstances?

if you were Blank and Quinn what would you do??

Falcons Fan MVP likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, ket222 said:

Please forgive me for another Julio topic.  This is the one time I will do this but it seems like an interesting question that goes well beyond Julio. 

Basically with Ryan's huge contract (even though it seems about the same percentage we'll be paying for him in the future from what people here have pointed out) ... how much extra is Julio asking for and what would it mean to signing our other players over the next 2-3 years?  Can you see us also keeping our best young defensive talent when their contracts come up?  will we have enough money to keep this team largely in tact for 2-3 years? 

I love Tevin coleman--any way we keep him? 

so who is up for a new contract or will most likely have to leave the falcons because of giving more money to Julio? 

finally, doesn't Julio have three more years on the contract?  what if we just don't pay him any more (or rearrange the contract with more money up front)?  would Julio become disgruntled and start to suck or even demand a trade?  what typically happens in these circumstances?

if you were Blank and Quinn what would you do??

Great thread! I've been asking myself this question everyday. I hope we keep Tevin Coleman also. I think it will effect us for a few years. If we draft very well and our coaches do an above average job coaching we should be okay.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, dawgsjw said:

I'm worried if other players will use Julio's precedent to try and get more money half way through their deal.  But yes, we do have a lot of guys we need to resign off rookie deals and some of these will be potentially big deals, like J Matthews, Grady, Vic, Dion,etc.

Matt and Julio are the only ones who have that kind of leverage on the team. Deion Jones on defense could be on his way to that star power.

Sun Tzu 7 and kiwifalcon like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's face it, the Falcon front office is anything but stupid.  I am sure they had enough foresight to see this could be an issue.  I would say that we will lose some key players.  There is no way we keep them all.  My guess Coleman is gone.  He can be a starter elsewhere.  

We have to sign Matthews.  Unfortunately, left tackles of starting caliber do not grow on trees.  My guess it's a toss up between Deion and Beasley.  Grady will get paid as well.  Starting disruptive defensive tackles are tough to find.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Falcons are more worried about setting a bad precedent than managing a few million dollars of cap for the next couple of years.

The Falcons at some point might make some small concession to Julio to help him save face, but I don't think they are going to give him a big raise or anything.

They've known he wanted more for a while now.  They aren't going to say NO NO NO and then all of a sudden say yes because he skipped minicamp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Herr Doktor said:

Let's face it, the Falcon front office is anything but stupid.  I am sure they had enough foresight to see this could be an issue.  I would say that we will lose some key players.  There is no way we keep them all.  My guess Coleman is gone.  He can be a starter elsewhere.  

We have to sign Matthews.  Unfortunately, left tackles of starting caliber do not grow on trees.  My guess it's a toss up between Deion and Beasley.  Grady will get paid as well.  Starting disruptive defensive tackles are tough to find.  

Deion is the most important player on the defense and they are going to do everything they can to keep him in Atlanta forever.

Beasley is probably a goner after 2019 I think.

Flying Falcon and Herr Doktor like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Deion is the most important player on the defense and they are going to do everything they can to keep him in Atlanta forever.

Beasley is probably a goner after 2019 I think.

I'm with you. Especially if McKinley holds down the rush and is productive, it makes the decision much easier.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, dawgsjw said:

I'm worried if other players will use Julio's precedent to try and get more money half way through their deal.  But yes, we do have a lot of guys we need to resign off rookie deals and some of these will be potentially big deals, like J Matthews, Grady, Vic, Dion,etc.

So much this! Who here wants to have Ryan sit out 2 yrs after signing his big extension. And all he would have to say is, you guys redid Julio's deal so how could you possibly not do the same for me.

Let that sink in. It's bad business for the team to go down this road with 3 years left on a deal that was top of market when it was signed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thank you for the 'that is the right question' comments. It's always good to admit one's ignorance, then people are gentle in their responses even after opening another Julio thread, ha!  :tiphat:    

It is interesting that these answers don't specifically address the impact of adding $ to Julio's contract would be on paying for other players--in other words, regardless of whether we pay Julio more, it sounds like coleman and one of our elite defensive players are goners after this year (or the year after?).  sad indeed. 

logically, it seems the best approach is to give him 'face saving' change to the contract that doesn't break the bank, but basically make him play through the three years of his contract.  After three years, I imagine his physical abilities will be on a major decline given his injuries like dez Bryant or is he just a ridiculous physical specimen like LeBron who will play at a high level for multiple years? 

I wonder though if playing hardball will impact Julio psychologically--he won't play as hard or become a locker room cancer (hard to believe Julio would do that given his team player image)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now we are $32.2M under the cap for the 2019 season according to OverTheCap. This does not include Grady Jarrett, Jake Matthews, Andy Levitre, Rico Allen, Tevin Coleman, Terrell McClain, Matt Schaub, Derrick Shelby, Kemal Ishmael, Justin Hardy, Justin Bethel and other role players who'll be free agents after this season. Nor does it include Calvin Ridley who has yet to sign. So here's the 2019 roster we're looking at (minus the 21 camp bodies on league minimum deals - $12M cap credit):

QB - (0) - Ryan, Grayson
RB - (2) - Free, Ito
WR - (1) - Julio, Sanu, Gage, Fuller, Davis
TE - (1) - Hoop, Saubert
OT - (3) - Shraeder
OG - (1) - Fusco, Schweitzer, Harlow
OC - (1) - Mack
DE - (2) - Beas, Takk, Reed
DT - (2) - Senat, Crawford
LB - (2) - Debo, Campbell, Duke, Oluokun
CB - (2) - Tru, Alf, Oliver
SS - (2) - Neal
FS - (1) - Kazee
ST - (1) - Bryant, Bosher

Right now that's a weak as roster. We'll probably have to add several starters (LT, DT, FS, OG, FB and LS), plus 15 back ups. Just to fill out the 53 man squad. That will likely take $45M+ of cap space. Not a lot of wiggle room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here’s the grocery list. I’ll assign a straw man 2019 cap hit for each option. Let me know if any of them need to be adjusted. Taking a conservative view. Some of these options may be back loaded too much. Our budget is about  $44M. Sanu, Reed and Crawford could free up a nice chunk as cap casualties. Happy shopping:

•    2019 Additional Cap Hit to Update Julio Jones - $2.0M
•    2019 Additional Cap Hit to Extend Vic Beasley - $2.0M
•    2019 Additional Cap Hit to Extend Austin Hooper - $2.0M

•    2019 Additional Cap Hit to Extend De'Vondre Campbell - $3.0M
•    2019 Additional Cap Hit to Extend Deion Jones - $5.0M
•    Re-Sign Jake Matthews - $12.0M
•    Re-Sign Grady Jarrett - $7.0M
•    Re-Sign Andy Levitre - $5.0M
•    Re-Sign Tevin Coleman - $4.0M 
•    Re-Sign Ricardo Allen - $3.0M

•    Re-Sign Matt Schaub - $3.0M
•    Re-Sign Ben Garland - $3.0M
•    Re-Sign Terrell McClain - $2.0M
•    Re-Sign Derrick Shelby - $2.0M
•    Re-Sign Justin Bethel - $1.8M
•    Re-Sign Kemal Ishmael - $1.5M
•    Re-Sign Ty Sambrailo - $1.0M
•    Re-Sign Josh Harris - $0.9M
•    Re-Sign Justin Hardy - $0.8M
•    Re-Sign Logan Paulsen - $0.7M
•    Re-Sign Austin Pasztor - $0.7M
•    Re-Sign Blidi Wreh-Wilson - $0.7M
•    Re-Sign Leon McFadden - $0.6M
•    Each Camp Body Re-Signed - $0.6M
•    Each Tier 1 Street Free Agent Signed - $8.0M
•    Each Tier 2 Street Free Agent Signed - $4.0M
•    Each Tier 3 Street Free Agent Signed - $1.5M
•    2019 Draft Class - $5.5M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t see us keeping Freeman and Coleman after this season. I would imagine that we’d let Tyco hit the market, but wonder if we could pay him him and let Free go if he has more concussion issues in 2018.

I also don’t see how we can pay market value to keep Mathews, Beasley, Grady, Debo and Neal going forward. My instinct is that we can probably expect to lose a couple of players from that list, unless we shed a couple of other big veteran contracts to make room. I could see Mack being a cap casualty simply due to his age, and wonder whether Tru could also be possibility.

As for Julio, I think we should play hardball. If the cap is an issue going forward, I would prioritise the resigning of Mathews, Beasley, Grady, Debo and Neal above paying Julio. I am not saying that they are better players than Julio,  but I consider WR to be one of the less valuable positions in the NFL. Based on age, health, and position value, I think Mathews, Beasley, Grady, Debo and Neal are all more important to us going forward than #11.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/17/2018 at 0:47 PM, dawgsjw said:

I'm worried if other players will use Julio's precedent to try and get more money half way through their deal.  But yes, we do have a lot of guys we need to resign off rookie deals and some of these will be potentially big deals, like J Matthews, Grady, Vic, Dion,etc.

Jake to me shouldn't be mention as a potential big deal. He's better than 'average' but I don't see him as a big number compared to others at his position. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously, if I'm Julio and there's "bad blood" from the team about offering some sort of guarantees over the last three years, then I'll play. But when I have a nagging injury, I'm sitting out. Sore foot? Hope I can walk it off, Coach, but if I can't, let Marvin Hall get my reps. Jammed finger? See me in a couple of weeks. This should be better by then. Stub a toe? Get with me at halftime and I'll let you know how I feel. Why take a chance that a tweak can become a full blown strain? We all know he's played with pain in almost every season. Best for him to play when he's 100%, which is exactly what his contract requires and the fans should expect. Gotta take care of yourself if you're going to make it for another three seasons.

Riser Upper likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

Seriously, if I'm Julio and there's "bad blood" from the team about offering some sort of guarantees over the last three years, then I'll play. But when I have a nagging injury, I'm sitting out. Sore foot? Hope I can walk it off, Coach, but if not let Marvin Hall get my reps. Jammed finger? See me in a couple of weeks. This should be better by then. Stub a toe? Get with me at halftime and I'll let you know how I feel. Why take a chance that a tweak can become a full born strain? We all know he's played with pain in almost every season. Best for him to play when he's 100%, which is exactly what his contract requires and the fans should expect. Gotta take care of yourself if you're going to make it for another three seasons.

Sounds like last year for him , especially on 3rd down .  I hope the team doesnt cave into him , sets a really bad precedent , if theres "bad blood " trade his *** , no one man is greater than the team , especially one that promotes 'brotherhood ". 

Edited by Slappywhite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Slappywhite said:

Sounds like last year for him , especially on 3rd down .  I hope the team doesnt cave into him , sets a really bad precedent , if theres "bad blood " trade his *** , no one man is greater than the team , especially one that promotes 'brotherhood ". 

And yet, he had more catches for more yards than the year before. What a slouch. And "brotherhood" goes both ways. If Julio had caught 15 fewer passes for 250 fewer yards last year, the Falcons would be demanding that he sign a new contract for less money. You know, like I know, that when his performance dips, so will his standing with management (and the fans).

Slappywhite likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, JayOzOne said:

And yet, he had more catches for more yards than the year before. What a slouch. And "brotherhood" goes both ways. If Julio had caught 15 fewer passes for 250 fewer yards last year, the Falcons would be demanding that he sign a new contract. You know, like I know, that when his performance dips, so will his standing with management (and the fans).

Julio is awesome , Im a huge fan , but Im against caving in to his demands , whats to stop everyone from doing this ?  I'd rather trade him than see this precedent started , I'd rather trade him than lose Jarrett, Deion , Keanu , Matthews . I never called him a slouch , he signed a deal that made him the highest paid WR in the NFL , ( he's not that anymore )  honor it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

And yet, he had more catches for more yards than the year before. What a slouch. And "brotherhood" goes both ways. If Julio had caught 15 fewer passes for 250 fewer yards last year, the Falcons would be demanding that he sign a new contract for less money. You know, like I know, that when his performance dips, so will his standing with management (and the fans).

You can't possibly believe that.  Just like Julio has no leverage to get a new deal, the Falcons would have no leverage to make him take a paycut.  He'd obviously be scooped up in 5 minutes as a free agent.

FalconFanSince1970 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Slappywhite said:

Julio is awesome , Im a huge fan , but Im against caving in to his demands , whats to stop everyone from doing this ?  I'd rather trade him than see this precedent started , I'd rather trade him than lose Jarrett, Deion , Keanu , Matthews . I never called him a slouch , he signed a deal that made him the highest paid WR in the NFL , ( he's not that anymore )  honor it.  

I'm not disagreeing with you for the most part. I respect you're opinion. He's objectively one of the top three receivers in the league though. All I'm saying, is that if we want 100%, he shouldn't give anything more than that. Don't play through pain. If you're paid like the eighth best receiver with no guarantees, play like the eighth best receiver and take care of yourself to make sure you're going to be able to make it for the length of the contract.

Slappywhite likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Dirtybird3 said:

Jake to me shouldn't be mention as a potential big deal. He's better than 'average' but I don't see him as a big number compared to others at his position. 

The Cowboys just signed Guard Zack Martin 6 years for 84M.  40M guaranteed.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Peyton said:

You can't possibly believe that.  Just like Julio has no leverage to get a new deal, the Falcons would have no leverage to make him take a paycut.  He'd obviously be scooped up in 5 minutes as a free agent.

If they thought he was overpaid, their leverage is to cut him. And if he'd be scooped up in 15 minutes with fewer catches and yards, that is a testament to his value. If you're right, then he's underpaid compared to his market value. So all of the "Julio is trash, cut him" chatter is just that. Chatter.

I'm on record in several threads saying that I can see it from all standpoints. If I was Julio, I'd probably do the same thing if I'm to be honest with you. I'd want some guarantees over the last three seasons of the deal. Who's to say that his career might not be cut short due to playing through past pain?

And if I'm management, I'd have to gauge whether I want to give in to demands of a player if it's going to potentially lead to problems down the road. I can't find anything in history that suggests that it will, by the way.

The amazing thing is that nobody knows what his holdout is for since neither he, his representatives or the team has said it. I'd presume it's for guaranteed loot and a boost in pay but that's speculation. I don't understand all of the angst and butt hurt over a situation that few understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0