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National Anthem Rule Passed

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5 minutes ago, gazoo said:

if you want to believe its white people killing white people in Chicago you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. 

If you want to believe it’s white mayors with white congressmen representing these districts with all white police forces gunning down innocent black men and all the other shootings are white people, shooting white people you are part of the problem, not part of solution.

This, and everything that folllows, is a straw man. Literally no one said any of those things. You ignored the actual response and constructed one in its place to address. I provided statistically-backed reasons for why the Black-on-Black label for crime is inaccurate, per your request. You have anecdotes. No one has suggested that Democrats in leadership are the answer (spoiler alert: Republicans have done much worse to poor Black communities). But whatever. Good night and God bless. 

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10 minutes ago, OC said:

This, and everything that folllows, is a straw man. Literally no one said any of those things. You ignored the actual response and constructed one in its place to address. I provided statistically-backed reasons for why the Black-on-Black label for crime is inaccurate, per your request. You have anecdotes. No one has suggested that Democrats in leadership are the answer (spoiler alert: Republicans have done much worse to poor Black communities). But whatever. Good night and God bless. 

These are called statistics, not anecdotes. If you are ok with this happening, I hope you are able to sleep.  

Memorial Day weekend 2015, there were 29 people gunned down in the streets of Baltimore.

On Labor Day weekend 2016, there were 32 people gunned down in the streets of Detroit. 

Memorial Day weekend 2016 , there were 69 people shot in the streets of Chicago, not a single one of them by police.  

Memorial Day weekend 2017, there were 52 people shot in the streets of Chicago, not a sIngle one by police

Just this month alone, Baltimore has seen a surge in murders this month with 33 people killed in the past 30 days and a number of brazen shootings. 

This is an outrage, who no football players kneeling over this?

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11 minutes ago, gazoo said:

These are called statistics, not anecdotes. If you are ok with this happening, I hope you are able to sleep.  

Memorial Day weekend 2015, there were 29 people gunned down in the streets of Baltimore.

On Labor Day weekend 2016, there were 32 people gunned down in the streets of Detroit. 

Memorial Day weekend 2016 , there were 69 people shot in the streets of Chicago, not a single one of them by police.  

Memorial Day weekend 2017, there were 52 people shot in the streets of Chicago, not a sIngle one by police

Just this month alone, Baltimore has seen a surge in murders this month with 33 people killed in the past 30 days and a number of brazen shootings. 

This is an outrage, who no football players kneeling over this?

Scroll up and read slowly. 

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7 minutes ago, OC said:

Scroll up and read slowly. 

If you can’t be honest about what is happening, if you just want to talk theory over facts, if you can’t even acknowledge the massive scale of this atrocity happening in our inner cities costing thousands of lives every year, there is nothing for us to talk about. 

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1 minute ago, gazoo said:

If you can’t be honest about what is happening, if you just want to talk theory over facts, if you can’t even acknowledge the massive scale of this atrocity happening in our inner cities costing thousands of lives every year, there is nothing for us to talk about. 

I never said any of it is not happening or that it was not wrong. You asked to explain why the Black on Black label is wrong. It still is. Everything I said still stands. You insist on addressing things that were never said. That’s your M.O.

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12 minutes ago, OC said:

I never said any of it is not happening or that it was not wrong. You asked to explain why the Black on Black label is wrong. It still is. Everything I said still stands. You insist on addressing things that were never said. That’s your M.O.

You really sound like thousands of inner city youth being slaughtered in our streets each year bothers you. 

I actually DO care about the plight of the inner city Americans and actually do soemthing to help. America has turned its back on this shameful plague

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6 hours ago, Tony Diesel said:

 

 

In no way am I saying that excessive force doesn't ever happen because it obviously does. 

However, the overwhelming majority of these physical encounters with LEOs could easily be avoided if people would just simply follow their instructions. 

Again, if you don't want get roughed up, do one of the following:

1. Don't commit a crime

2. If you do commit a crime or infraction, follow the officer's instructions when they attempt to detain you for your safety and theirs. 

 

As far as the Sterling Brown incident is concerned, I can see how the tasing can be seen as excessive.... but even then, he could of avoided EVERYTHING if he would have just have followed instructions. 

Also, you have to understand all of these procedures are for safety. If they slip up even a little, that could mean their life or their partner's life.

First off, what kind of moron parks across three spaces in front of the entrance.

THEN, he's not able to produce ID. How many times did the officer ask him to back away from the vehicle and he WOULDN'T DO IT? (for safety)

Yes, you are going to call for back-up regardless, but especially for a young, athletic, 6 ft 6 inch male.

As far as the take down, the officer told him to get his hands out of his pockets where they can see them (again, for safety) and what did he say, "NO, I GOT STUFF IN MY HANDS!" LOL -- Then he got dealt with! He could have followed instructions but decided to go the hard route. Way to keep it real Sterling, real dumb! 

Well we see it differently and that may never change. Obviously they acted inappropriately or they would not have been suspended. Who know what will come out of the trial. 

Sterling was wrong for how he parked and should have been ticketed. The officer starts with "how you doing." Obviously he is standing by the door which is where sterling has to go to get to his car. He asks Sterling if he has a driver's license. He must have answered in the affirmative because the next question was where is it at?  The officer then puts his hands on Sterling, pushes him and says "back up." There is an exchange of words as things start to escalate further. Sterling says don't put your hands on me, the offices says backup again, asks Sterling if he is obstructing him?  The officer even asks Sterling "what's your name" after he has the license in hand. 

I've been  pulled over before, but never asked to step out the car. Police have asked for my license and I have given it. I have never been asked my name, as if I don't know it or perhaps I'm going to give one that doesn't match my license. My name is right on my license with my photo. Why could the guy not take the license, go back to the car, run it and write a ticket. This quickly became a pi$$ing match. One that started with a  officer putting his hands on a guy because he felt he was to close. If he felt uncomfortable, why didn't he take a step back. I've done that plenty of time when talking to people that I feel invade my space. What was Sterling going to do, get in his car and drive off?  If he does, where is he going?  

If a 6' 6'' guy scared him, maybe he should have kept his distance for safety. If the size of a guy alone makes you nervous, that's an entirely different problem. I get that there have been some instances where officers are alone and have ended up harmed/killed or in physical altercations. You can't make that assumption about everyone of a given stature. You can't treat every 6' 6'' guy or 250 pound guy like they mean you harm. Nothing wrong with taking safety precautions, but don't treat people like you have a problem with them from the start.

 

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6 hours ago, gazoo said:

Memorial Day weekend 2016 , there were 69 people shot in the streets of Chicago, not a single one of them by police.  

Memorial Day weekend 2017, there were 52 people shot in the streets of Chicago, not a sIngle one by police.

Now, let’s take a look at how many shootings took place in the streets of Baltimore, Philly, Milwauke and other democrat strongholds with high percentages of African American mayors, police chiefs, and police departments. They also have African American congressmen in these districts.

Literarily 1000’s of young black and Hispanic youth are slaughtered in America’s inner city streets in areas that black democrat mayors, police forces and black democrat congress districts have run for decades, but these victims are told the police and white people are their enemy. Remarkable.

Police are the least of the inner city people’s problems. The democrats who have been running most of these  cities for decades have conned the victims living in these communities  to believe the white man and the police are their real problem. Utter BS.  

Thats not to say there aren’t rogue cops that need to be fired Andy thrown in jail. But police brutality pales in comparison the the problems in the  inner city caused by terrible leadership running those cities. 

I can agree with a lot of what you said. Now here is the real problem. What are the politicians doing about it?  Sure there may be democrats involved, but I do not hear republicans stepping up.  

In the areas you mentioned I'm sure the schools are underfunded and horrible. Who has proposed sending more money to those poor, run down schools in places like Chicago and Baltimore?  Have not heard of either party doing that. 

Who has proposed paying talented teachers more to teach in schools where the students lag behind the most. I guarantee if someone proposed to do that in South Fulton county the people in Alpharetta and North Fulton would have a fit. 

My kids high-school had a new freshmen center built right before we moved over here.  I didn't know this was happening and it had no impact on our decision for our then elementary school student. I'm sure that money could have been put to better use in schools that may have needed more supplies and better/more teachers. From what I read about it, it was a heated debate. Parents over here felt that all the other schools had gotten money for new football fields and band rooms/theaters and these parents over here wanted their "shiny new object." 

I think  lot of people will complain about crime, violence and a delapadated area. At the end of the day they will complain about any solution to try and fix it...or they will not try and fix it at all. Chicago is the poster child talking point for everything wrong with black America. True, there are plenty of people in the community that are not helping and making it worse. There are not many from outside that are really trying to help. They consider helping more policing only. 

Do me a favor, watch the documentary below from about 35:55 to 44:30 where they are talking about MLK and Chicago in 1966. Same problems are around today. I don't think it started in '66, had to be in the works for years befor that.  African Americans were not running things in 1966. I don't really like to play the blame game, but all elected official have been going round and round for years. Just fix it, but nobody seems interested. The entire documentary is really good 

https://youtu.be/qz7BEkZ35oE

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8 hours ago, isproab said:

Well we see it differently and that may never change. Obviously they acted inappropriately or they would not have been suspended. Who know what will come out of the trial. 

Sterling was wrong for how he parked and should have been ticketed. The officer starts with "how you doing." Obviously he is standing by the door which is where sterling has to go to get to his car. He asks Sterling if he has a driver's license. He must have answered in the affirmative because the next question was where is it at?  The officer then puts his hands on Sterling, pushes him and says "back up." There is an exchange of words as things start to escalate further. Sterling says don't put your hands on me, the offices says backup again, asks Sterling if he is obstructing him?  The officer even asks Sterling "what's your name" after he has the license in hand. 

I've been  pulled over before, but never asked to step out the car. Police have asked for my license and I have given it. I have never been asked my name, as if I don't know it or perhaps I'm going to give one that doesn't match my license. My name is right on my license with my photo. Why could the guy not take the license, go back to the car, run it and write a ticket. This quickly became a pi$$ing match. One that started with a  officer putting his hands on a guy because he felt he was to close. If he felt uncomfortable, why didn't he take a step back. I've done that plenty of time when talking to people that I feel invade my space. What was Sterling going to do, get in his car and drive off?  If he does, where is he going?  

If a 6' 6'' guy scared him, maybe he should have kept his distance for safety. If the size of a guy alone makes you nervous, that's an entirely different problem. I get that there have been some instances where officers are alone and have ended up harmed/killed or in physical altercations. You can't make that assumption about everyone of a given stature. You can't treat every 6' 6'' guy or 250 pound guy like they mean you harm. Nothing wrong with taking safety precautions, but don't treat people like you have a problem with them from the start.

 

You have most of the details wrong. 

This wasn't even a traffic stop, Sterling was coming out of the store and the police were waiting for him.

It's 2am, the police don't know if you are on drugs, have weapons, have warrants ect... Also, it's standard procedure to call back-up in this situation.

Again, when a LEO asks to see your hands and you tell him "No", it is standard procedure to take you down and cuff you. 

While its hard to tell from the bodycam, it appears the officers had him restrained and zapped him anyway, but its questionable. 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Tony Diesel said:

You have most of the details wrong. 

This wasn't even a traffic stop, Sterling was coming out of the store and the police were waiting for him.

It's 2am, the police don't know if you are on drugs, have weapons, have warrants ect... Also, it's standard procedure to call back-up in this situation.

Again, when a LEO asks to see your hands and you tell him "No", it is standard procedure to take you down and cuff you. 

While its hard to tell from the bodycam, it appears the officers had him restrained and zapped him anyway, but its questionable. 

 

 

Yes, he was inside and the officer saw he was parked across multiple spots.  He went to talk to him and I'm sure that was because he parked like an a$$, so basically, that is a traffic/vehicle violation, meaning, it is a problem with you driving a vehicle, maybe its technically something like a moving violation, but that detail really isn't the issue.  Either way, it was because of his vehicle. It wasn't because someone called or observed suspicious behavior.  The basic problem I have, is IF it is like you said, "It's 2am, the police don't know if you are on drugs, have weapons, have warrants ect..."  That is a negative assumption by the officer.  Why can't it be, ****, guy in a hurry and violated a rule/regulation with his car?  Why does it have to be this guy could be a criminal, he could have warrants, he could be on drugs or have weapons?  What actions did he display to lead to any of that?

In my opinion you can't assume the worst of people.  If that is the case, does every speeder get the 3rd degree because they could be speeding off to make their next drug deal?  What about people that run red lights, did they do that because they are just fleeing the scene of a crime they just committed?  There is a difference between bad drive/operation of a vehicle and being a criminal.  

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1 hour ago, isproab said:

Yes, he was inside and the officer saw he was parked across multiple spots.  He went to talk to him and I'm sure that was because he parked like an a$$, so basically, that is a traffic/vehicle violation, meaning, it is a problem with you driving a vehicle, maybe its technically something like a moving violation, but that detail really isn't the issue.  Either way, it was because of his vehicle. It wasn't because someone called or observed suspicious behavior.  The basic problem I have, is IF it is like you said, "It's 2am, the police don't know if you are on drugs, have weapons, have warrants ect..."  That is a negative assumption by the officer.  Why can't it be, ****, guy in a hurry and violated a rule/regulation with his car?  Why does it have to be this guy could be a criminal, he could have warrants, he could be on drugs or have weapons?  What actions did he display to lead to any of that?

In my opinion you can't assume the worst of people.  If that is the case, does every speeder get the 3rd degree because they could be speeding off to make their next drug deal?  What about people that run red lights, did they do that because they are just fleeing the scene of a crime they just committed?  There is a difference between bad drive/operation of a vehicle and being a criminal.  

I don't even think LEOs "assume the worst of people", they merely follow procedures and safety protocol. Why? So they don't get assaulted or killed. 

Why not apologize, follow the officer's instructions, politely answer their questions, let them verify your identity, then go on your merry way?

Probably wouldn't of even received a ticket. 

 

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18 hours ago, isproab said:

I can agree with a lot of what you said. Now here is the real problem. What are the politicians doing about it?  Sure there may be democrats involved, but I do not hear republicans stepping up.  

In the areas you mentioned I'm sure the schools are underfunded and horrible. Who has proposed sending more money to those poor, run down schools in places like Chicago and Baltimore?  Have not heard of either party doing that. 

Who has proposed paying talented teachers more to teach in schools where the students lag behind the most. I guarantee if someone proposed to do that in South Fulton county the people in Alpharetta and North Fulton would have a fit. 

My kids high-school had a new freshmen center built right before we moved over here.  I didn't know this was happening and it had no impact on our decision for our then elementary school student. I'm sure that money could have been put to better use in schools that may have needed more supplies and better/more teachers. From what I read about it, it was a heated debate. Parents over here felt that all the other schools had gotten money for new football fields and band rooms/theaters and these parents over here wanted their "shiny new object." 

I think  lot of people will complain about crime, violence and a delapadated area. At the end of the day they will complain about any solution to try and fix it...or they will not try and fix it at all. Chicago is the poster child talking point for everything wrong with black America. True, there are plenty of people in the community that are not helping and making it worse. There are not many from outside that are really trying to help. They consider helping more policing only. 

Do me a favor, watch the documentary below from about 35:55 to 44:30 where they are talking about MLK and Chicago in 1966. Same problems are around today. I don't think it started in '66, had to be in the works for years befor that.  African Americans were not running things in 1966. I don't really like to play the blame game, but all elected official have been going round and round for years. Just fix it, but nobody seems interested. The entire documentary is really good 

https://youtu.be/qz7BEkZ35oE

Excellent points, I agree with most everything you are saying. I also watched the clip, MLK was an enlightened person, the black community could really use another leader  like him right now. I recall watching my mother weep for hours the day MLK was shot. It will never leave me.

I agree the entire country has turned its back on our inner city citizens. If anyone wants to talk institutional racism in our country, this is ground zero. This is the civil rights issue of our times. It is absolutely disgraceful that our citizens are being gunned down in the streets of our inner cities like this.

The cause is complex, but it has nothing whatsoever with people acting differently just because they have a different skin color. So many of these young men I mentor coming from broken homes and crime riddled areas are intelligent men of strong character. If I were born in those conditions with no way out I would probably be dead by now or in prison. 

For the record, I’m an independent. I was a democrat during Clinton years but the democrat party has morphed into a race baiting, identity politic peddling, religious bigotry, wide open borders, globalist, anti semetic, elitist party that I do not identify with any longer. They look down their noses in contempt at hard working American families. They savagely attack people of color like Kanye West who speaks for himself.  The democrat party ran me off. I can’t stand the Republicans either.  I love immigration, but unfettered open borders hurts the poorest of Americans, suppresses wages and disproportionately harms our African American inner city youth. Bill Clinton’s 1996 State of the Union talk stated exactly this and all democrats and republicans gave raucous standing ovation as he said we needed a border wall and clamp down on illegal immigration.

Many of my dear, honest liberal friends are just now starting to see how radical the democrat party is becoming.

The republicans and democrats are responsible for the inner city issues, but I blame democrats more because they are running these inner cities. They are in charge of the schools, the police departments, they are the ones in charge of these congressional districts. They do little  but blame police and white people for the inner city plight which is BS. Yes, some bad police do bad things and need to be thrown in jail, but that problem pales in comparison to our inner city youth gett8ng slaughter every single day in our streets.

i don’t know how to fix it but it sickens me, so I roll up my sleeves and help as many of them as I can on an individual basis.

 

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2 hours ago, gazoo said:

Excellent points, I agree with most everything you are saying. I also watched the clip, MLK was an enlightened person, the black community could really use another like him right now. I recall watching my mother weep for hours the day MLK was shot. It will never leave me.

I agree the entire country has turned its back on our inner city citizens. If anyone wants to talk institutional racism in our country, this is ground zero. This is the civil rights issue of our times. It is absolutely disgraceful that our citizens are being gunned down in the streets of our inner cities like this.

The cause is complex, but it has nothing whatsoever with people acting differently just because they have a different skin color. So many of these young men I mentor coming from broken homes and crime riddled areas are intelligent men of strong character. If I were born in those conditions with no way out I would probably be dead by now or in prison. 

For the record, I’m an independent. I was a democrat during Clinton years but the democrat party has morphed into a race baiting, identity politic peddling, religious bigotry, wide open borders, globalist, anti semetic party that I do not identify with any longer. The democrat party ran me off. I can’t stand the Republicans either.  I love immigration, but unfettered open borders hurts the poorest of Americans, suppresses wages and disproportionately harms our African American inner city youth. Bill Clinton’s 1996 State of the Union talk stated exactly this and all democrats and republicans gave raucous standing ovation as he said we needed a border wall and clamp down on illegal immigration.

Many of my dear, honest liberal friends are just now starting to see how radical the democrat party is becoming.

The republicans and democrats are responsible for the inner city issues, but I blame democrats more because they are running these inner cities. They are in charge of the schools, the police departments, they are the ones in charge of these congressional districts. They do little  but blame police and white people for the inner city plight which is BS. Yes, some bad police do bad things and need to be thrown in jail, but that problem pales in comparison to our inner city youth gett8ng slaughter every single day in our streets.

i don’t know how to fix it but it sickens me, so I roll up my sleeves and help as many of them as I can on an individual basis.

 

:tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

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Watch this clip from 1995 where Bill Clinton talks about how damaging the flow of illegal immigration is to our country. Watch the democrats and republicans all stand up with thunderous applause as he outlines the harm illegal immigration causes.

what happened to my democrat party where if you speak like Bill Clinton is speaking here you are branded a racist, a bigot, uncaring......what happened? I support immigration 100%, but I do not support illegal immigration. My position is exactly that of Bill Clinton. 

The illegals aren’t moving to Martha’s Vineyard Andy other affluent communities, they are populating in our poorest neighborhoods harming the poorest of Americans, compet8mg for jobs, keeping wages low, using up resources that would otherwise go to our poorest citizens, crowding the schools taking up vital resources. 

 

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On 5/24/2018 at 6:25 PM, OC said:

A) Black on Black crime is a myth. Most crime happens where people live closest to each other. And most Black people live closest to each other, for several reasons. Also, the people that live in those communities ARE doing things to prevent violence from happening there. But these are problems are in addition to disproportionate police brutality. 

But it’s also reasonable to expect law enforcement officers who have been trained in these instances to be held to a higher standard than those who are not. 

Black on black crime is not a myth. Can't even believe you said that.

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15 hours ago, caver50 said:

Black on black crime is not a myth. Can't even believe you said that.

It is a myth, a non sequiter, and a red herring that always comes up. 

Black-on-Black crime is just crime and is no more unique than crime among any other race. It only comes up as a distinct category in discussions like these when people want to ignore larger systemic issues

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Well yes, crime is crime.  But location and who lives in that location is important to know, for your own situational awareness and safety.  Remember the political games being played when  in 1980 (I believe it was then) that report came out showing Savannah had the highest murder rate in the country?  And then the mayor whined and tried to deflect blame from himself, saying that the crime in a few problem ghetto areas (majority black) was unfairly skewing the results.  Sorry bud, your city has a murder problem.  Own it. 

There was a documentary on NYC's crime in the late 80s to early 1990s I saw that showed the mayor in '90 giving a speech to this poor community saying he was "with them," but the results from increased law enforcement resources and presence didn't occur until 3 years later.  He basically strung them along for 3 years with meaningless talk instead of action.  I was reminded of that Time magazine cover saying something was rotten in the big apple, the bad old days when the number of people murdered was over 2000 yearly.

For others to accuse those of pointing out "black on black" crime as being racist, is just as cowardly and lazy as that savannah mayor.  Own the problem, enough lip service.  But maybe, people really do get the leaders they deserve.  Where is the outrage?  

I went to a bachelor party in Buckhead and later on some of us wanted to go to mid-town and this one guy was absolutely terrified of being there after 8pm and refused to go.  I'm like, P***y, this is our city, we are in a big group, they can't shoot us all.

Oh, and like Taylor Swift said, heartbreak is the national anthem, we sing it proudly.  (?!? Lol)

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