Monolith2001

Julio wants more money...

1,108 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Peyton said:

Last month they very publicly expected him to be at OTAs lol.

Theres a difference between voluntary OTAs and mandatory minicamps. 

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It doesnt hurt to ask for more and it shouldnt hurt to say no. He signed the contract. He can either hold out or play when the time comes. Cant win championships by paying everyone top dollar. 

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4 minutes ago, Peyton said:

There is one huge difference between Brown and Jones.  The Steelers asked Brown to do the restructure to create cap space.

They "why" doesnt change the underlying transaction or the money. 

EDIT TO ADD: we also dont know whether this restructure was a "planned" restructure when he originally signed his deal. 

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1 minute ago, Peyton said:

Last month they very publicly expected him to be at OTAs lol.

:munch:meh, what I expected anyway. OTAs aren't even in pads and it's really for new guys.

Techical fight over Julio being there right now or letting Julio be as rested as possible before the minicamp, and; more important, TC?

I'm not worried one bit.

Julio not being at OTAs has nothing to do with the contract update noise.

The rest is speculation and assumptions. He wasn't there last year either.

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5 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

The Gronkowski approach gives him more money. They could also do a small extension, give him a chunk of cash in hand, and back load the deal to a more realistic end point for his Falcons career. 

There are a lot of options here. The array of available bonus structures creates a number of opportunities for both the team and the player. 

I don't think the Falcons should even talk to him if he isn't going to attend the OTAs.  That's just me though.

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Just now, Falcons_Frenzy said:

I'd like to add that perhaps the Falcons saw this coming and that's why they drafted Ridley.

Nope.

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1 minute ago, Falcons_Frenzy said:

I'd like to add that perhaps the Falcons saw this coming and that's why they drafted Ridley.

I think this is valid.

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1 minute ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

......this is a turrrrible analogy, man. 

I dont know why you guys are so resistant to the idea of taking care of "your guys" as an organization. Players see that and value that. 

You guys are all "PLAY HARDBALL" in this message board because you arent the ones with relationships here nor do you have any actual skin in the game. 

That doesnt mean we tear Julio's contract up and give him $25m a year for the next five years but man.....take it easy. This doesnt have to be so antagonistic. There are common good outcomes here which can benefit both sides. 

yes, if you go back to my original post on my 680-comments when I was a caller - I sided with the "try and work out something to assuage Julio" 

BUT.....

Falcons are in a strong negotiating position and are cap strapped

FURTHER...

There is a decent argument to be made that at $11.5mm per year - on average - Julio is properly paid - or - at worst slightly underpaid by about $2mm/yr - given that his current contract "averaged"  $14.5mm/yr.

Antonio Brown is averaging $17mm/yr.

If Falcons gave Julio a $10mm extension bonus and extended the deal by 1 year at say $12mm and guaranteeing say $25mm - taking Julio to age 32, that would be totally fair.    AGAIN, Falcons don't have to do anything - and the above would provide Julio a little extra juice without too much damage to the cap.    I actually think the Falcons will come out losers in this as I see a decline for Julio after 2018 season - as his injuries pile up - but in the name of assuaging the superstar, have at it.

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4 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

......this is a turrrrible analogy, man. 

I dont know why you guys are so resistant to the idea of taking care of "your guys" as an organization. Players see that and value that. 

You guys are all "PLAY HARDBALL" in this message board because you arent the ones with relationships here nor do you have any actual skin in the game. 

That doesnt mean we tear Julio's contract up and give him $25m a year for the next five years but man.....take it easy. This doesnt have to be so antagonistic. There are common good outcomes here which can benefit both sides. 

I don't think anyone is "playing hardball".  Most people here love JJ and want to keep him, but it is cost benefit.  JJ will miss games over the next three years.  It's going to happen.  Maybe 1, maybe 10???  He has very average red-zone numbers and has show he can't work himself open in the red zone.  Not knocking the guy, but it is what it is.  JJ also has cases of the dropsies.  There were two games last year where he dropped game winning passes.  The man is a beast and can put up crazy numbers, but he also can disappear from games.  You shouldn't get top three money when you can be taken completely out of a game plan, in multiple games, every year.  And don't give me the he takes defenders away from the rest of the field.  Against bad teams sure, but JJ has been shut down in 1 - 1 coverage before.  Then he comes up limping.

Guarantee his next two years and even add another year, but he isn't worth more money over that span.  Not at least until he starts scoring some TD's.

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7 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Theres a difference between voluntary OTAs and mandatory minicamps. 

Yes I understand.  Matt Ryan and Dan Quinn both talked publicly about the importance of having him at the OTAs. Matt said "it starts next week".  He wasn't talking about mandatory minicamp.  They thought he would be there.

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2 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Yes I understand.  Matt Ryan and Dan Quinn both talked publicly about the importance of having him at the OTAs. Matt said "it starts next week".  He wasn't talking about mandatory minicamp.  They thought he would be there.

Well they were incorrect. And when mandatory (big word there) minicamp comes around, you'll get a legit look at how much of a "thing" this is. 

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5 minutes ago, Peyton said:

Yes I understand.  Matt Ryan and Dan Quinn both talked publicly about the importance of having him at the OTAs. Matt said "it starts next week".  He wasn't talking about mandatory minicamp.  They thought he would be there.

If it were that important, it wouldn't be voluntary. 

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4 minutes ago, schwarzenegger321 said:

I don't think anyone is "playing hardball".  Most people here love JJ and want to keep him, but it is cost benefit.  JJ will miss games over the next three years.  It's going to happen.  Maybe 1, maybe 10???  He has very average red-zone numbers and has show he can't work himself open in the red zone.  Not knocking the guy, but it is what it is.  JJ also has cases of the dropsies.  There were two games last year where he dropped game winning passes.  The man is a beast and can put up crazy numbers, but he also can disappear from games.  You shouldn't get top three money when you can be taken completely out of a game plan, in multiple games, every year.  And don't give me the he takes defenders away from the rest of the field.  Against bad teams sure, but JJ has been shut down in 1 - 1 coverage before.  Then he comes up limping.

Guarantee his next two years and even add another year, but he isn't worth more money over that span.  Not at least until he starts scoring some TD's.

well said.

I don't think there is anyone in TATF that doesn't love and respect Julio and what he has done for the team - in truth, when Julio made what I would argue is the most ridiculous catch in the history of the NFL - in the SuperBowl - that should have brought the Lombardi home to the ATL - alas it wasn't to be.

We are not talking though about an Aaron Donald type situation where a player is grossly underpaid.   Does Julio DESERVE an adjustment to his current contract?  I would say he is slightly underpaid - when you factor in all the upfront money already paid him - and that SHOULD count - too simplistic to just look at the "per year average" in next three years as it doesn't factor in that his real average annual compensation is much higher.

If a slight adjustment with a mile extension bonus and maybe add one year to the deal and increase the guarantee - if Julio and agent will accept that - then I could live w/ it - but if they are looking for a major re-structure and major concessions - I believe the Falcons would be foolish to do so.

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I honestly don't think it's about more money, but a matter of how easily the Falcons could move on from him at basically any point from here.  They could release him today and it's only $4.8 million in dead money, or after the season for only $2.8 million in dead money.  From his point of view, what if he shows up to OTAs and has a major injury?  The team could very easily move on from him (once he's healthy).

I could see them going with something similar to Brown, like Larry pointed out.  Give him $9 million of his salary as a bonus, and then it becomes $8.8 million in dead money if they move on from him next year.  That gives him money up front and more job security.

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6 minutes ago, schwarzenegger321 said:

I don't think anyone is "playing hardball".  Most people here love JJ and want to keep him, but it is cost benefit.  JJ will miss games over the next three years.  It's going to happen.  Maybe 1, maybe 10???  He has very average red-zone numbers and has show he can't work himself open in the red zone.  Not knocking the guy, but it is what it is.  JJ also has cases of the dropsies.  There were two games last year where he dropped game winning passes.  The man is a beast and can put up crazy numbers, but he also can disappear from games.  You shouldn't get top three money when you can be taken completely out of a game plan, in multiple games, every year.  And don't give me the he takes defenders away from the rest of the field.  Against bad teams sure, but JJ has been shut down in 1 - 1 coverage before.  Then he comes up limping.

Guarantee his next two years and even add another year, but he isn't worth more money over that span.  Not at least until he starts scoring some TD's.

"Red zone numbers" arent a thing. He doesnt become a different player once the team crosses from the 21 to the 20. And while I certainly didnt like his Carolina drop (which wasnt a red zone drop) these things happen. 

Honestly, this post doesnt give anywhere enough credit to the function and design of this offense and the play of the QB. Julio is "taken out" of games when Matt decides he likes other matchups better. Thats how offenses are SUPPOSED to work. You identify the mismatch, and you exploit it. Thats how Tom Brady has built a "GOAT" resume. When teams focus on Gronkowski, he throws to Edelman or White. When teams cheat to stop the slot stuff, they leave Gronk singled up against a safety and they pay for it. Its no different with Julio. 

You pay Julio Jones for the ~700 - 900 snaps a year during which he becomes the prime focal point of the other team. He's a nightmare and a huge part of the offense. That doesnt mean you can't build other offenses but this particular player's talents and abilities are superlative. And he deserves every dollar he can get his hands on. 

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7 minutes ago, Vandy said:

If it were that important, it wouldn't be voluntary. 

If it weren't important, more guys would skip it.

The CBA prohibits teams from making them mandatory.  The coaching staff wants that prep time.  There is a reason that 98% of the guys in the league are there.

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If you want to be the highest percentage of wr of 20% every year. Then make your contract that way. Don't settle for less and then be a cry baby during OTA. 

 

Oh and also don't miss the catch that would have sent us to the NFCCG.

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4 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

"Red zone numbers" arent a thing. He doesnt become a different player once the team crosses from the 21 to the 20. And while I certainly didnt like his Carolina drop (which wasnt a red zone drop) these things happen. 

You have got to be kidding.  How can a fan of a team that had Tony Gonzalez on it not think that proficiency in the red zone is a very specific skill.  Because it is.

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3 minutes ago, Peyton said:

If it weren't important, more guys would skip it.

The CBA prohibits teams from making them mandatory.  The coaching staff wants that prep time.  There is a reason that 98% of the guys in the league are there.

You might want to read up a little on what OTAs are and aren't....

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfls-not-so-hidden-secret-as-brady-donald-and-even-beckham-know-otas-dont-matter/

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5 minutes ago, Peyton said:

You have got to be kidding.  How can a fan of a team that had Tony Gonzalez on it not think that proficiency in the red zone is a very specific skill.  Because it is.

Speaking of Gonzales ....didn't he miss OTA's on a regular basis? 

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