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falconidae

Snap counts for the 2017 Falcons and the replacement for the top 4 snap counts missing from last year

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12 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Lets look at Vic's sacks from that year, courtesy of PFR

http://pfref.com/tiny/w1nL0

4 of his sacks were 3rd down, that certainly counts, 

Had a sack of Carr on 2nd down at 2 minutes in the first half that resulted in a punt 2 plays later

Had a 2nd down sack of Brees that ended the first half,

a sack on 1st down on Lynch that ended up being a 3 and out,

a sack on 2nd down on Lynch that ended up being a 3 and out.

A sack on 1st down on Lynch that ended up being  a 3  and out. 

A sack of Goff on 1st down that resulted in a 3 and out

A sack of Goff on 2nd down that resulted in a 3 and out

A sack of Goff on 2nd down that resulted in a fumble recovery and a score.

A sack of Wentz on 2nd down that resulted in a fumble recovery.

13 of his 15 sacks resulted in a change of possession in that series of downs. Not sure how much better he could do.

Chargers eagles chefs.. We still lost. And this was two years ago. And just as he was played out of place last year he was his sack leading season. So again what games were really taken over by beaz like a Miller bosa? 

All I'm saying is if you're gonna discredit clays sacks against Dallas and a sheet line then do the same for Vic for an entire year. Our best lineman has had a career 3 sack game and we're tossing away 6 like we have multiple players on the like with 6+

So Im not knocking vic at all, even though his best performances are never when we needed it the most, but saying sacks are sacks so clay deserves more credit than he's getting 

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8 minutes ago, Dirtybird3 said:

Chargers eagles chefs.. We still lost. And this was two years ago. And just as he was played out of place last year he was his sack leading season. So again what games were really taken over by beaz like a Miller bosa? 

All I'm saying is if you're gonna discredit clays sacks against Dallas and a sheet line then do the same for Vic for an entire year. Our best lineman has had a career 3 sack game and we're tossing away 6 like we have multiple players on the like with 6+

So Im not knocking vic at all, even though his best performances are never when we needed it the most, but saying sacks are sacks so clay deserves more credit than he's getting 

LOL,YOU were talking about Vic in 2015.  I show you that 13 of his 15 sacks that year resulted in a change of possession, then you move the goalposts. Not Vic's fault that falcons didn't win those games.

And comparing him to Von Miller and having him come up short ain't no crime, there aren't very many Von Millers in the world.

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16 minutes ago, Dirtybird3 said:

Chargers eagles chefs.. We still lost. And this was two years ago. And just as he was played out of place last year he was his sack leading season. So again what games were really taken over by beaz like a Miller bosa? 

All I'm saying is if you're gonna discredit clays sacks against Dallas and a sheet line then do the same for Vic for an entire year. Our best lineman has had a career 3 sack game and we're tossing away 6 like we have multiple players on the like with 6+

So Im not knocking vic at all, even though his best performances are never when we needed it the most, but saying sacks are sacks so clay deserves more credit than he's getting 

Derrick Thomas set the single game sack record in a loss. Beasley strip sacked Rivers that lead to a clayborn TD. Reggie white had sacks in losses. LT had sacks in losses. You’re making a dumb point. When did any of those greats play on a 16-0 team? You’re holding Beasley accountable for wins and losses based on impact sacks?? Just doesn’t make sense. What about int’s, what about forced fumbles. What about 3 and outs. What about not letting an offense score at all??? There’s all kinds of things that impact a game. SACKS don’t impact the overall score of the game. They impact PLAYS. What about Vick ending a carolina game on a sack?? The impact a rusher makes is DISRUPTION more than just a sack. Moving the qb off his spot. Strahan holds the sack record and he did that on a team that barely made the playoffs. I fail to understand your point. 

 

As for best performances that also depends because we shut GB down in 2016 the second half of the 1st game because Beasley spied the whole second half. He also sacked Rodgers that game as well. Players impact games in different ways. And Vic’s versatility allows him to do MORE than just rush man. 

 

As for clayborn Just Like Vic all sacks count. They help us win. But more than sacks is the pressure/ disruption a player displays. 

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17 minutes ago, falconidae said:

LOL,YOU were talking about Vic in 2015.  I show you that 13 of his 15 sacks that year resulted in a change of possession, then you move the goalposts. Not Vic's fault that falcons didn't win those games.

And comparing him to Von Miller and having him come up short ain't no crime, there aren't very many Von Millers in the world.

Bro so which one is it! If vic is the league leader in sacks and all these tl strip fumbles and change of possession sacks why would he not be compared to von Miller lol. 

He is our first round defensive stud in this dq Era is he not? He is supposed to be for us what von is to Denver right? 

 

Again the point is we're giving vic credit for 15.5 sacks, his better numbers again against sheet lines or garbage time, yet throwing away 6 sacks in one game like we really have proven depth to just throw in and automatically replenish those numbers. Which is the point here. 

So we can keep going back and forth about how you felt those sacks impacted and swung games, but you're missing the point 

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22 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Derrick Thomas set the single game sack record in a loss. Beasley strip sacked Rivers that lead to a clayborn TD. Reggie white had sacks in losses. LT had sacks in losses. You’re making a dumb point. When did any of those greats play on a 16-0 team? You’re holding Beasley accountable for wins and losses based on impact sacks?? Just doesn’t make sense. What about int’s, what about forced fumbles. What about 3 and outs. What about not letting an offense score at all??? There’s all kinds of things that impact a game. SACKS don’t impact the overall score of the game. They impact PLAYS. What about Vick ending a carolina game on a sack?? The impact a rusher makes is DISRUPTION more than just a sack. Moving the qb off his spot. Strahan holds the sack record and he did that on a team that barely made the playoffs. I fail to understand your point. 

 

As for best performances that also depends because we shut GB down in 2016 the second half of the 1st game because Beasley spied the whole second half. He also sacked Rodgers that game as well. Players impact games in different ways. And Vic’s versatility allows him to do MORE than just rush man. 

 

As for clayborn Just Like Vic all sacks count. They help us win. But more than sacks is the pressure/ disruption a player displays. 

Again you're missing the point my guy. I came to this thread and responded to people discrediting clays 6 sack game. Saying it was against a crap line, which it was. Regardless he got socks sacks. Vic hasn't got more than what 2 maybee 3? Grady has 3, and so forth. So why are people quick to throw it away but at the same time laud viz and his league leading season. His best games that year numbers wise were against lesser opponents/lines, or in garbage time as we were scoring 30+ a game. Besides the point (Vic doesn't have that iconic performance or dominanting game, maybe a few in his career MAYBE yet you are supposed to be our defensive star.)

So again I'm not knocking his numbers, he got em. But if we're gonna give him that credit then we have to do the same for Clay, period. If you wanna throw away his 6 sacks then I'll point out sacks beez really should be credited with either, 

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2 hours ago, atljbo said:

I'm the one dude here who has always liked clayborn..... The guy is a good rotational DE but I'm mad some of yall actin like this man was von miller...

Acting like 6 of his 9 sacks didn't come from 1 game.... Come on yall .. don't under rate the man but **** don't over rate him either... 

 

Takk and Beasley should see sound 60-70% of the DE snaps.

 

I do feel like we are missing that DE/DT that will give us pressures and 4+ sacks.

 

We will see will JT Jones or Winbush step up as a decent rotational guy

Agreed on most of this.  I like Clay and always have.  I think he's more disruptive than he gets credit for...but he's a 4 sack a year kind of guy.

I think Takk and Beasley are going to eat the snaps Clay got...so we're just looking at replacing Takk's snaps.

I'm guessing they hope Crawford is that 4-5 sack DE you're talking about.  But agreed, would love if we had a Michael Bennett light type or a young Clayborn type as the 3rd DE.

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4 hours ago, Dirtybird3 said:

Beasley sacks didn't do anything to swing a game besides Denver and maybe one other and it was more his forced fumbles.. Beaz didn't take games over or impact games with many of those 15.5 sacks.. Trash lines are trash lines 

:lol:

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27 minutes ago, Dirtybird3 said:

Again you're missing the point my guy. I came to this thread and responded to people discrediting clays 6 sack game. Saying it was against a crap line, which it was. Regardless he got socks sacks. Vic hasn't got more than what 2 maybee 3? Grady has 3, and so forth. So why are people quick to throw it away but at the same time laud viz and his league leading season. His best games that year numbers wise were against lesser opponents/lines, or in garbage time as we were scoring 30+ a game. Besides the point (Vic doesn't have that iconic performance or dominanting game, maybe a few in his career MAYBE yet you are supposed to be our defensive star.)

So again I'm not knocking his numbers, he got em. But if we're gonna give him that credit then we have to do the same for Clay, period. If you wanna throw away his 6 sacks then I'll point out sacks beez really should be credited with either, 

Beasley had 2+ sacks 4 times. Clayborn’s only 2+ sack game was the Cowboys. Beasley was much more consistent.

Beasley 2016 - 1st team All Pro

3.5 sacks and 2 FF vs Denver

3 sacks and TD vs Rams 

2 sacks and FF that led to TD vs Chargers

How were these not iconic games? 

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3 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

I actually think that other guy will come in the form of Campbell rushing from SLB. Was supposed to be the case last year but Riley happened. But if Riley or Foye man WLB admirably then that other rusher could be Campbell. Also Crawford could be another rush option. I don’t think we’re as bad off as folks may think. As usual. Lol 

I think Oliver coverage ability will give us the ability to play some strong press coverage to allow Campbell to blitz more also

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27 minutes ago, falconsfan4life3 said:

Beasley had 2+ sacks 4 times. Clayborn’s only 2+ sack game was the Cowboys. Beasley was much more consistent.

Beasley 2016 - 1st team All Pro

3.5 sacks and 2 FF vs Denver

3 sacks and TD vs Rams 

2 sacks and FF that led to TD vs Chargers

How were these not iconic games? 

I mentioned Denver and the chargers already so I'll give you that. Still a game we lost, which at the end of the day make a career more. But be honest probly still had to pull up these numbers to find games. Which would be 3,regular season games in 4-5 years? Not in a sb or title game.. And again beez is our defensive wrecker right? 

 

Still straying front the point though. The point is if we're giving vic all that credit against lesser lines then give the same respect to Clay. Especially when we don't have as strong a rush as we believe we do. 

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3 hours ago, Dirtybird3 said:

As far as his impact again he changed maybee two games. A sack on second down when the team still converts doesn't do much good. The year he lead the year in sacks he was not a force by any means. When you need a sack to end a game you never hear Beaz the way you do say Miller, he comes up when the teams needs him, in clutch situations and games. 

 

As far as your last sentence you made my point, Clays 6 sacks are 6sacks. Regardless of 1 game or not he got em.. People need to stop discrediting that like we had other world beaters on the line with big sack numbers

So show me the instances Vic got a sack on 2nd and they converted 3rd then show me the instances Miller got game winning sacks.

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28 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

So show me the instances Vic got a sack on 2nd and they converted 3rd then show me the instances Miller got game winning sacks.

 Bro plain and simple he doesn't change games they way we need him too. It's like a closer in baseball, when you need an out you knew smoltzy gotchu. Cuz doesn't have the killer instinct yet. 

 

Back to my point still no argument against what I said earlier. If we give credit to Vic for gettin a league leading sack year we give credit to Clay and getting 6 sacks in a game, period. 

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4 minutes ago, Dirtybird3 said:

 Bro plain and simple he doesn't change games they way we need him too. It's like a closer in baseball, when you need an out you knew smoltzy gotchu. Cuz doesn't have the killer instinct yet. 

 

Back to my point still no argument against what I said earlier. If we give credit to Vic for gettin a league leading sack year we give credit to Clay and getting 6 sacks in a game, period. 

Show me where he should have gotten a game winning sack then show me where Miller did it.

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7 hours ago, Falconcheff said:

Of course FFS70 is gonna try to blow rainwater up our arses

 

I'll be shocked if we're not a better team with:

Senat/McClain/Crawford to Poe/Rubin/Upshaw

Takk/???? to Takk/Clayborn off bench

 

 

Isn't it really just the same thing?

Exactly.

Don't forget Beasley being back to DE snaps full time and Takk probably having quite a bit. That means a 3rd rusher just needs to help the overall DL package still be effective at generating pressures with the occasional sack himself.

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8 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Show me where he should have gotten a game winning sack then show me where Miller did it.

He can’t. We beat von Miller in the same game Beasley went off. Why didn’t miller change the course of that game for Denver? Lol. It’s a silly debate really. There’s 11 guys on defense. Not just one. Every time Beasley got a strip sack he impacted the game. The offense got the ball back. I want him to produce the same stats you’re asking. Also show where Von Miller, Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor, Bruce Smith, Michael Strahan, and ANY of these greats went 16-0 because of their game changing ways each game. 

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Great data! This makes me feel somewhat more concerned about the state of our DL this year. Poe and Clay were such a big part of our DL last year and Upshaw's snaps need to be replaced too. We need the young guns and role players to step up big time or we're going to be in deep doo doo. We have Jack Crawford coming back from IR and Vic moving back to DE, so that gives us some hope. Senat, Crawford and McClain can maybe replace Poe and Clay in quantity but I'm not sure they can match the quality. JT Jones and Joey Ivie are the only two developmental guys from last year AFAIK. 

I do have faith in DQ and his staff but man does this roster feel thin

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16 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Show me where he should have gotten a game winning sack then show me where Miller did it.

 

4 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

He can’t. We beat von Miller in the same game Beasley went off. Why didn’t miller change the course of that game for Denver? Lol. It’s a silly debate really. There’s 11 guys on defense. Not just one. Every time Beasley got a strip sack he impacted the game. The offense got the ball back. I want him to produce the same stats you’re asking. Also show where Von Miller, Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor, Bruce Smith, Michael Strahan, and ANY of these greats went 16-0 because of their game changing ways each game. 

Compare super bowls how about that. What big games has vic stood out, and big as in meaningful. When we need a play to end a game I head brooks Reed more than vic lol. And you wanna compare him to all time greats? They still had more impact than vic does. 

 

Now answer my question since both yall keep diverting from this entire discussion. Do you give clay the same credit for getting 6 sacks in a game as you do vic getting 15.5 in a season. Even though vic was against lesser lines and in garbage time for atleast a few of his? 

 

Just a side bar vic had twice as many tackles and only two less sacks during vics 'break out season' take away some walk in sacks from beez and he wouldn't of gotten the praise he did be real. 

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6 hours ago, Falconcheff said:

Careful my brother... them Doc's can find something wrong with even the healthiest of individuals... how else are they gonna be able to prescribe you something that's gonna lead to a whole lotta other trouble down the road... that they can prescribe something else for???

I am old and eat raw vegs/fruits when possible. Have to grind them up tho. Just cannot chew on Vegetables. Have to drink them with fruit.

Spam sammich?....well now!

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44 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

Agreed on most of this.  I like Clay and always have.  I think he's more disruptive than he gets credit for...but he's a 4 sack a year kind of guy.

I think Takk and Beasley are going to eat the snaps Clay got...so we're just looking at replacing Takk's snaps.

I'm guessing they hope Crawford is that 4-5 sack DE you're talking about.  But agreed, would love if we had a Michael Bennett light type or a young Clayborn type as the 3rd DE.

yea i like Clayborn .... I just get it ... Clayborn played 52% of the snaps .... Takk had 38% and Beasley had 46% ... Beasley and Takk should see between 60-70% of the snap.

 

Both should get more snaps and both can take snaps from either side depending on the matchup... That wasnt an option with Clay

 

Again i like Clayborn and it would have been nice to keep him but i think some are over hyping it...

 

But yea Bennett would have been perfect taking snaps at DE and DT... I think Taven Bryan wuld have been perfect also

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19 minutes ago, Sandy5prings said:

I do have faith in DQ and his staff but man does this roster feel thin

Back in the day we would call this a stacked roster.

Times are good here my friend.

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5 hours ago, jamesmasen said:

No but 6 sacks over six games may help you win those 6 games.. 6 sacks in 1 game really only helps you win that 1 game.. that's all were saying here ..  I would take a sack a week over 16 sacks in week 1 anyday

We both know sacks don’t work out that way, they come in waves.

Bigger Problem with that thinking is you guys act like that’s all he did all year. It wasn’t just the Dallas game, Clayborn put together a nice season, all year.

 

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6 hours ago, Dirtybird3 said:

Beasley sacks didn't do anything to swing a game besides Denver and maybe one other and it was more his forced fumbles.. Beaz didn't take games over or impact games with many of those 15.5 sacks.. Trash lines are trash lines 

Come on now... is it just pure coincidence that the year we had the NFL sack leader was the year we went to the Super Bowl???

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6 minutes ago, Falconcheff said:

Come on now... is it just pure coincidence that the year we had the NFL sack leader was the year we went to the Super Bowl???

We went to the sb because we're were able to just about out score everyone. Some, not all his sacks,came for that reason, playing with a lead. The point was he got his numbers against lesser lines just like clay. So why are we discrediting his cuz they were in one game 

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1 minute ago, Dirtybird3 said:

We went to the sb because we're were able to just about out score everyone. Some, not all his sacks,came for that reason, playing with a lead. The point was he got his numbers against lesser lines just like clay. So why are we discrediting his cuz they were in one game 

Nobody's discrediting them at all; merely pointing out that his per game performance won't be as hard to replace as simple sack statistics suggest...

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4 minutes ago, Falconcheff said:

Nobody's discrediting them at all; merely pointing out that his per game performance won't be as hard to replace as simple sack statistics suggest...

But we are lol, the entire first page is. And regardless of 6in a game that's 6 sacks. Whos to say that it wasn't just a breakout day based on prep and film. He worked for I'd say 5 I think one was a legit fscemask, but that happens to Matt all the time lol. But still, not saying he's a consistent 9.5, but for a player who played half the snaps on defense I don't see how people think a 2nd year player and c list players are just plug and play and guarantee the production isn't going to change. That's very nieve, dq is a genius but we need to be realistic until we see this defense on the field. Until then the numbers have not been duplicated so let's not take away an almost double digit sack season

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