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How does a 3 technique DT fit into our scheme if we draft one at 26?


NUPE
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4 minutes ago, MayorWest13 said:

Jarrett plays NT as well. 

I don’t think he’s good at that spot. Can’t see him thriving always facing double teams. He’s not stout enough for a 1 tech or NT imo

Edited by NUPE
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1 minute ago, NUPE said:

I don’t think he’s good at that spot. Can’t see him thriving always facing double teams. He’s not stout enough for a 1 tech or NT

Team's don't just automatically double the 1-tech. They double the player who is hardest to move out of the hole. 

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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Team's don't just automatically double the 1-tech. They double the player who is hardest to move out of the hole. 

I get that, but isn’t most of the time the 1 tech is your classic “run stuffer” since he’s the closest to the ball. 

 

You would think that thats the position that would face the most double teams

Edited by NUPE
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14 minutes ago, NUPE said:

I don’t think he’s good at that spot. Can’t see him thriving always facing double teams. He’s not stout enough for a 1 tech or NT imo

He played more NT than Poe last year & he excelled at it in 2015/16. He plays NT just as good as 3T. He’s our Membane . A good undersized run stuffing NT but he can rush the passer as well. 

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Because you have more than 1 pick and the rest of the offseason to find a 2-down run defending 1Tech. :tiphat:

We aren't just 'replacing Poe with a Poe clone'. What did we ever do at NT before Poe? Many ways to slice it. Seems Falcons could trade up for Vea; the best snap eater for NT that might come close to Poe last year...or we go 1 gap depth and address run defender; effectively splitting up the snaps Poe ate. Remember didn't have Hageman last year. It was a shared interior and at times we rotated some of the strongside DEs inside or AC.

Obviously helps when 1 guy can play so many snaps, but you don't find a quality guy like Poe often and it's of course not the only way to rotate/apportion the snaps along a DL; specifically DT in this instance as we've seen DEs eat up DT snaps in situations/packages.

Solution: Need a run stuffer for 2 downs/goaline or short yardage packages and a pass rusher. Easier to do than trade up for Vea essentially(trying to force a Poe replacement and next year succeeds/fails on the one pick)...that's why 2 dedicated DTs likely before end of offseason.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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6 minutes ago, rcky_mtn_falcon said:

It would not surprise me if we sign a DT after May 8th, if signed after that date it won't effect our comp picks for next year.

Bennie Logan and Johnathan Hankins are both still available.

Logan's gone to Tennessee. 

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32 minutes ago, NUPE said:

I get that, but isn’t most of the time the 1 tech is your classic “run stuffer” since he’s the closest to the ball. 

 

You would think that thats the position that would face the most double teams

Not necessarily. JJ Watt gets doubled nearly every down for Texans (or at least he use to). 

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Falcons fans are so used to having teams who were porous against the run that a lot of them want a real NT like Vea because they dont want to see run D suffering. DT is 1 part of the run D. He does have a significant role but we need our DTs to be more than just  gap fillers. Falcons can fix the hole with a number of guys. The best teams have rotations. Guys that can be stout, pass rushers, solid all around guys.  We need to address it but lets not be close minded about it guys. 

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

Team's don't just automatically double the 1-tech. They double the player who is hardest to move out of the hole. 

Teams may choose to block a 1-tech 1-on-1 and have the C go to the second level, but it's hard to double the 3-tech because of spatial considerations. If your 3-tech is lined up between the LG and LT, the C has to cover a lot of ground to be able to double him and also leaves a gaping hole in the middle of the line for a back 7 player to rush in. The LT obviously isn't going to double team the 3-tech because then the DE is either unblocked or going against a TE. The reason you line up your best interior rusher at 3-tech is so he naturally gets 1-on-1 blocking. 

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23 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

Teams may choose to block a 1-tech 1-on-1 and have the C go to the second level, but it's hard to double the 3-tech because of spatial considerations. If your 3-tech is lined up between the LG and LT, the C has to cover a lot of ground to be able to double him and also leaves a gaping hole in the middle of the line for a back 7 player to rush in. The LT obviously isn't going to double team the 3-tech because then the DE is either unblocked or going against a TE. The reason you line up your best interior rusher at 3-tech is so he naturally gets 1-on-1 blocking. 

I definitely understand that's the norm and what team's want to do in their basic offenses....but to my point, Calais Campbell, Gerald McCoy , Aaron Donald and Geno Atkins are double-teamed all the time because they are the best players on the DLs who disrupt the plays, so those team's have to adjust accordingly. One of biggest reasons Fletcher Cox/Eagles beat our offense to a pulp in last year's playoffs is because we didn't adjust accordingly with Cox manhandling our OG's. 

And if we don't get a strong disruptive DT to replace Poe, Grady is gonna see alot more double teams at the 3-tech spot than he did last year. 

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1 hour ago, NUPE said:

We already have Grady Jarrett as our 3 tech, we lost Poe as our 1 tech. 

 

If we draft Hurst or Bryan at 26, would we run the wide 9 or something?

I’ve explained this several times here but it either goes in one ear and out the other, or people just don’t understand it, or they just make stuff up in place of reality for some strange reason.

If the opposing offense lines up in a strong formation, Jarrett plays the WEAK SIDE IF we are in Base.  Sometimes this Base formation is a 4-3 Under front (3T is on weak side, 1T is on strong side), and sometimes it’s an Over front (3T is on the strong side, 1T is on weak side).  Jarrett is ALWAYS either the weak side 3T or the weak side 1T.

We were in our Under front probably 70% of those ~300 or so Base snaps.  And Jarrett only played about 200 of those.  Meaning Jarrett was in the weak side 3-technique for around 140-150 of our Base snaps, and in the weak side 1-technique for maybe 60-70.

That’s not a lot of 1T/NT snaps like some claim here.  Poe only played around 200 Base snaps too. But he was in the 1T probably 70% of those and 3T about 30%.  I don’t know why some here claim Grady got more 1T snaps. It’s simply not true.

Vellano got about 50 Base snaps and Rubin got about 150.  That accounts for the other 200.

And after those ~300 or so Base snaps, the other ~700 or so are in our Sub packages (Nickel, Nascar, Bear, Dime, Goal Line, etc).  None of which use a 1-tech Nose Tackle. Both our DT’s in these packages are in the 4iT (or very near it).  Goal Line is obviously tighter inside.

We run a Wide-9 in our Nascar and Bear pkgs, which is about 100 or so total snaps.  We run around 550-600 snaps in Nickel and maybe 50 or so in Goal Line and Dime.

Needless to say, of Jarrett’s 796 snaps, only maybe 60-70 were at the 1-tech.  Poe got about double that.  They both got over 600+ or so snaps at the 4iT in our Sub packages.

So that all said, if we drafted a guy like Taven Bryan, he’s going to be a Sub package specialist.  Probably almost exclusively.  He may not even get 50 snaps in our Base, so it’s moot if he is able to play the 3T or 1T.  He would spend 98% of his snaps in the 4iT next to Jarrett who’s also in the 4iT.

What we need is a 2nd DT (and even a 3rd) who can play Poe’s, Rubin’s, and Vellano’s Base package snaps, as well as some of Jarrett’s. Jarrett will probably still get 200-250 Base snaps, most at 3T, some at 1T, but we need another 300+ lb DT, or two, who can do the same thing.

This is also another reason why I think Payne is the better fit for us. While Bryan can’t really absorb Base snaps needs, Payne could.  Payne could play both Subs AND Base.

Edited by Beef
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Am I missing something here why is it that people can't see Jarrett being effective at the 1tech spot am I missing something here.What we need to see Jarrett being more effective is to have another guy come in and spell him on early downs so he's more effective later on in games.

Personally 1 or the 3 Jarrett will and has killed it.As above we just need to cut down his snap count by about 10-15% so he can finish games strong.

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22 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I definitely understand that's the norm and what team's want to do in their basic offenses....but to my point, Calais Campbell, Gerald McCoy , Aaron Donald and Geno Atkins are double-teamed all the time because they are the best players on the DLs who disrupt the plays, so those team's have to adjust accordingly. One of biggest reasons Fletcher Cox/Eagles beat our offense to a pulp in last year's playoffs is because we didn't adjust accordingly with Cox manhandling our OG's. 

And if we don't get a strong disruptive DT to replace Poe, Grady is gonna see alot more double teams at the 3-tech spot than he did last year. 

As @Beef said in the next post, sometimes teams play their pass rushing DT at 1-tech depending on situation/formation and it's a lot easier for them to get double teamed then. 

But once again the whole point of the 3-tech is to get your best pass rushing DT 1-on-1 because it is so hard for a C to get where he needs to be to block a 3-tech. If someone as explosive as Fletcher Cox lines up between Levitre and Matthews and goes after Levitre's left shoulder, there's nothing Alex Mack can do. He can't teleport over there. He's stuck where he is. 

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I actually like the idea of moving Grady around and pairing him with a more lethal pass rushing DT for our overall rush. Filling gap on run D needs isn't as hard to do as finding a DT that can rush the passer; especially if we are playing 'our' style of games getting up on people again this next season.

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1 hour ago, Summerhill said:

As @Beef said in the next post, sometimes teams play their pass rushing DT at 1-tech depending on situation/formation and it's a lot easier for them to get double teamed then. 

But once again the whole point of the 3-tech is to get your best pass rushing DT 1-on-1 because it is so hard for a C to get where he needs to be to block a 3-tech. If someone as explosive as Fletcher Cox lines up between Levitre and Matthews and goes after Levitre's left shoulder, there's nothing Alex Mack can do. He can't teleport over there. He's stuck where he is. 

Point is, it's not that simple. 

Yes, our goal is to have the 3-tech not be double-teamed. I think everybody with a basic understanding of how a defense is ran understands that. My point is if that 1-tech is not a good, elite player/athlete like Poe, Grady is going to see alot more double-teams than he did last year. Team/OC's aren't that stupid, they will try and take the most disruptive players out with double-teams. To your point we tried to do that against Cox, with little success. But we still tried. 

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