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What Scouts think about this years D-Tackle Class


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Defensive Line: If you want a pass rusher wait ’til next year

Fourth of a nine-part series previewing the NFL draft. Today: defensive line.

By BOB McGINN

We pause now to interrupt the NFL war rooms in which executives are spending the last few days hoping against hope they can come up with some big men that can rush the passer.

There’s defensive end Bradley Chubb of North Carolina State and then … well, no one’s quite sure who’s next.

That should all change a year from now, assuming underclassmen on the defensive line declare for the draft at the same rate they have in recent times.

“If you want to jump ahead a year the defensive line will be the strength of the draft,” an executive in personnel said. “My best players for next year are all defensive linemen. I can name four guys next year that will go in the top 10.”

The scout rattled off Ohio State’s Nick Bosa, Clemson’s Clelin Ferrell and Boston College’s Zach Allen as edge players ala Chubb. In the next breath, he listed Michigan’s Rashan Gary, Alabama’s Raekwon Davis and Houston’s Ed Oliver as the leading defensive tackles.

In the meantime, every team must wring what they can from a draft board that’s thin in 2018. 

Chubb, a classic 4-3 defensive end, will be covered with the other edge players in Part 5 of this series. This part will cover players that generally are considered 0-1-3-5 techniques and weigh at least 280 pounds.

Two players, Washington’s Vita Vea and Alabama’s Da’Ron Payne, stand head and shoulders above the pack. In fact, they tied for most total points in a poll of 14 personnel men.

Vea garnered eight first-place votes compared to five for Payne and one for Florida’s Taven Bryan. A first-place vote was worth 7 points and a second-place was worth 6 as scouts ranked their top seven big men in order.

Vea and Payne emerged tied with 87 points. Sixteen players drew votes, and the first division also included Bryan (68), Michigan’s Maurice Hurst (40), Mississippi’s Breeland Speaks (21), Stanford’s Harrison Phillips (19), Miami’s R.J. McIntosh (16) and North Carolina State’s B.J. Hill (14).

Filling out the second division were Alabama’s Da’Shawn Hand (eight), Florida State’s Derrick Nnadi (eight), Ohio State’s Jalyn Holmes (seven), North Carolina State’s Justin Jones (five), Virginia Tech’s Tim Settle (four), Fort Hays State’s Nathan Shepherd (four), Virginia’s Andrew Brown (three) and Miami’s Kendrick Norton (one).

“That’s a bad group,” one personnel man said. “After the first two there’s nobody intriguing.”

That might be a little harsh. Still, the talent pool can’t begin to compare to a year ago when seven defensive linemen went in Round 1.

The dilemma for each organization this year is just how high Vea and Payne, who essentially are nose tackles, should be taken.

Vea (6-4, 347, 5.07) is an incredible physical specimen with stunning speed for his bulk. Payne (6-2 ½, 309, 4.96) flourished down the stretch as the interior cornerstone of the Crimson Tide’s national championship team.

Still, Vea finished with just 9 ½ sacks in 40 games and Payne totaled only three in 44 games. Some scouts say each player has underdeveloped traits to become a better rusher in the NFL, but doing that against pro pass blockers won’t be easy.

“If you’re going to pay a big price to get a guy on your roster he’s got to be able to rush the passer,” an NFC personnel man said. “Everybody says, ‘Well, you need a two-down guy, too.’ But you don’t. They pass as much as they run on run downs today.”

At some point in the first round Vea and Payne will be selected, and it would appear Vea should go first. But is a nose tackle, no matter how unique his ability might be, worth a top-15 pick let alone a top-10?

“We’re not that high on Vea,” said one scout. “He’s what he is. No pass rush. People are probably a little stung by Danny Shelton who came out of there (Washington in 2015). 

“Similar guy. Big space-eater. It’s kind of hard to draft one of those guys high. He’s not going to be in there in subpackages.”

In 2009, the Green Bay Packers used the ninth pick on a nose tackle, B.J. Raji. He weighed 333 before that draft, so let’s use that as a cutoff to see how prominent big men 333 and above have fared as pass rushers.

This influx of incredibly large defensive tackles has only been going on for 10 years or so. From 1992-’06, there were just three defensive tackles of significance that entered the draft weighing 330 or more.

The list that follows shows 10 massive nose tackles from the last 25 years arranged by average sacks per game.

Chester McGlockton (6-4, 337, 5.05): Oakland’s first-round pick (16) in 1992 … 51 sacks in 179 games, an average of one every 3.5 games.

Eddie Goldman (6-4, 336, 5.28): Chicago’s second-round pick in 2015 … 8 ½ sacks in 36 games, 4.2.

Grady Jackson (6-1, 340, no 40): Oakland’s sixth-round pick in 1997 … 35 ½ sacks in 185 games, 5.2.

Haloti Ngata (6-4, 339, 5.13): Baltimore’s first-round pick (12) in 2006 … 31 ½ sacks in 167 games, 5.3.

Dontari Poe (6-3 ½, 339, 4.91): Kansas City’s first-round pick (11) in 2012 … 15 ½ sacks in 94 games, 6.1.

Phil Taylor (6-3, 334, 5.16): Cleveland’s first-round pick (21) in 2011 … seven sacks in 44 games, 6.3.

B.J. Raji (6-1 1/2, 333, 5.15): Green Bay’s first-round pick (nine) in 2009 … 11 sacks in 91 games, 8.3.

Vince Wilfork (6-1, 335, 5.08): New England’s first-round pick (21) in 2004 … 16 sacks in 189 games, 11.8.

Gilbert Brown (6-2 ½, 335, 5.11): Minnesota’s third-round pick in 1993 … seven sacks in 125 games, 17.9.

Danny Shelton (6-2, 338, 5.61): 1 ½ sacks in 46 games, 30.7.

Talented people like Chester McGlockton and Grady Jackson don’t come along often. 

“Vea and Payne are subtle pass rushers,” said one scout. “For big guys they rush deceptively. For big guys they rush pretty well.”

The comparison between Vea and Shelton is made constantly given their similar size and the same school. Although Vea at 5.07 could run circles around Shelton, it’s notable that the far slower Shelton made more plays for the Huskies than Vea.

In 53 games (41 starts), Shelton finished with 208 tackles (24 for loss) and 11 ½ sacks.

In 40 games (18 starts), Vea finished with 100 tackles (15 for loss) and the 9 ½ sacks.

“Danny Shelton might have made more splash plays,” said one personnel man. “But they’re similar guys.”

Just as NFL teams feel they have an excellent idea what to expect from Vea, the same holds true of Payne. That’s because Alabama has had 12 big men drafted since coach Nick Saban took over in 2007.

Here are those 12 players in order of selection round: 

Marcell Dareus (6-3, 319, 4.94): First round (three) by Buffalo in 2011.

Jonathan Allen (6-2 ½, 285, 5.01): First round (17) by Washington in 2017.

Terrence Cody (6-3 ½, 349, 5.66): Second round by Baltimore in 2010.

Jarran Reed (6-3, 309, 5.16): Second round by Seattle in 2016.

A’Shawn Robinson (6-3 ½, 310, 5.16): Second round by Detroit in 2016.

Dalvin Tomlinson (6-3, 311, 5.16): Second round by the New York Giants in 2017.

Josh Chapman (6-0 ½, 317, 5.04): Fifth round by Indianapolis in 2012.

Quinton Dial (6-5 ½, 312, 5.31): Fifth round by San Francisco in 2013.

Jesse Williams (6-3 ½, 325, 4.94): Fifth round by Seattle in 2013.

Ed Stinson (6-3 ½, 288, 5.00): Fifth round by Arizona in 2014.

Jeoffrey Pagan (6-3 ½, 308, no 40): Sixth round by Houston in 2014.

Brandon Deaderick (6-4, 315, 5.39): Seventh round by New England in 2010.

Those 12 players have combined for 54 ½ sacks, with 36 belonging to Dareus.

“Because of the discipline of the ‘Bama’ scheme it negates the sack production of their defensive linemen,” one personnel man said. “I think Payne can develop as a rusher pushing the pocket.”

Saban’s sacks generally have come from edge rushers and both inside linebackers and safeties in pressure packages..

“I don’t think they tapped into Payne’s pass rush and up side,” said another scout. “They didn’t develop that. They just let him be a big, violent, physical, power-handed guy.

“As a rusher he needs a lot of technical work. I think there was a lot more there.”

At least the personnel people can be comforted knowing far better prospects are just one year away.

RANKING THE DEFENSIVE LINE

1. VITA VEA, Washington (6-4, 347, 5.07, 1): Fourth-year junior. “He’s so big and athletic,” one scout said. “I mean, he can do whatever he wants. The guy weighed 347 and we had him in 5.05. That’s a big old (bleep). He’s really light on his feet. He just tosses guys like they’re elementary-school kids. He’s up and down in motor but he’s hard to block.” Doubled as a RB in high school at Milpitas, Calif., and played basketball, too. Spent time covering kicks for the Huskies. “He blocked a punt against Colorado by bull-rushing the personal protector right into the punter,” said a second scout. “It was a regular routine by the punter. Vea got so much penetration and so fast it was sick. He’s a freak. The scary thing is he’s only going to get better. They had him in this weird frog stance (and) kind of reacting. More of a power rusher now.” His 41 reps on the bench were second highest among DL. “Going to be a **** of a player,” said a third scout. “A guy that big that moves that well and plays that hard, he’ll be a Pro Bowler.” Scored 17 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test. “Is Vea as good as (Haloti) Ngata?” said a fourth scout. “I’m kind of thinking not but I bet he gets drafted somewhere in that same area (12th, 2006).” Arms were 32 5/8 inches, hands were 10 inches. “He’s the same guy as (Danny) Shelton,” said a fifth scout. “He’s a two-down run stuffer. Those kind of guys are losing their luster.”

2. DA’RON PAYNE, Alabama (6-2 ½, 309, 4.96, 1): Backed up as a true freshman in 2015 before starting 29 games at NT in the Crimson Tide’s 3-4 defense the past two years. “Tough, blue-collar, physical,” said one scout. “But still able to make plays. He can two-gap. He rushed better later in the year. He ran well. Consistent player. Better run than pass but I think he can play on third down.” Finished with 102 tackles (five for loss) and three sacks. “He’ll put his hands on a guard’s chest in the NFL and they’ll feel it,” a second scout said. “They’re going to feel him every play. He does have some quickness. He’ll always be a push-the-pocket guy but he has up side as a penetrator. He’s a first-round pick in any draft. I’ve seen him take both the guards and the center and he’s walking them to the backfield.” From Birmingham, Ala. “He’s not quite as explosive maybe as Marcell Dareus but I’d rate him above Jarron Reed and A’Shawn Robinson,” a third scout said. “Payne can be a better pass rusher than Robinson. This kid is really gifted for a big man. He can get on half of a man.” Wonderlic of 21. Arms were 33, hands were 9 3/8.

3. TAVEN BRYAN, Florida (6-5, 292, 5.05, 1): Recruited early as an offensive tackle, he came to enjoy defense more and became the first player from Wyoming (Casper) to sign with Gators. “He’s a disruptor but he doesn’t finish,” said one scout. “He might be the most explosive of all these guys. Florida’s defensive line was so bad he got double-teamed most of the time. He has pressures, not sacks.” Third-year junior, one-year starter. “I like everything,” said a second scout. “His person, his athleticism and his ability to get off the ball. He can be a one-gap or a two-gap player. If he gets to the right scheme he can flourish. People think he’s goofy but he’s not. He is who he is.” Minimal production, finishing with 67 tackles (10 ½ for loss) and 5 ½ sacks. “If you were his parents you’d be proud of him because you could say, ‘My son plays his butt off,’” said a third scout. “And he does. But this guy leaves more plays on the field than anybody with his skill set that I’ve ever seen. He is so much more into intensity at the expense of discipline and sound football. He’s going to have to be uncoached … He puts his hand on the ground and just winds up his engine and if he’s got to be in the B gap he’s going to be in that B gap so hard that by the time he finally gets himself in a position to find where the football is it’s already seven yards downfield. Every once in a while he’s going to make not just a normal play but it’ll be a sensational play where he just throws you for an 8-yard loss because every once in a while blind hogs get acorns. They do. If he guesses right he’s a beast. If he guesses wrong he’s upside down some place.” Led defensive linemen in vertical jump (35 inches), broad jump (9-11), short shuttle (4.48) and 3-cone (7.12). “I don’t see it at all,” another scout said. “He plays erect, gets pushed around in the run game, didn’t have a feel for the game. Straight-line, no moves. I’m perplexed.” Wonderlic of 26. Added a fifth scout: “He goes to the combine and his interviews were awful. Little immature just the way he acts and the way he does things. But I’d take him in the 20 area.”

4. MAURICE HURST, Michigan (6-1 ½, 291, 4.98, 1-2): Played extensive from 2014-’16 but didn’t become a starter until his senior season. “He’s more of the prototypical 3-technique than anybody in the draft,” one scout said. “Everybody wants that length at that inside position but I look at the Pro Bowl every year and everybody that gets voted to it is 6-1 or less. He’s a lot like Aaron Donald. Only thing where they’re not alike is Donald can just jolt your shoulders over your heels and rock you right back into the quarterback. I haven’t seen that quality in this guy. His plays were made on quickness.” Finished with 132 tackles (32 ½ for loss) and 12 ½ sacks. “He’s just got to fit your system,” a second scout said. “He has to continue playing hard. He’s a quick penetrator. He’ll get hammered if he plays two gaps.” Arms just 32, hands only 9 ½. Wonderlic of 26. “What you’ve got is a very small man,” a third scout said. “He’s not like Warren Sapp or Tommie Harris, any of those super 3-techniques. I just don’t see it. He’s a good rotational player.” Prevented from working out at the combine when doctors discovered an irregularity with his heart. Later was cleared by doctors and worked out fully at pro day. His father, Maurice, started at CB for the Patriots from 1989-’95. From Westwood, Mass.

5. BREELAND SPEAKS, Mississippi (6-3, 285, 4.90, 2): Fourth-year junior started 19 of 37 games. “Got a lot of talent,” said one scout. “Has big-time flashes. Burst, power, plays hard, disrupts a lot. He’s a versatile guy who can fit different fronts.” Played mostly as a DE in 2016 before moving inside last year. “On run downs he’s a base left end,” said another scout. “That’s the tone-setting, stout guy that you want. On third down put him over the guard and let him go. He’s a good power-leverage rusher. He doesn’t have the body twitch for backward movement … Had a rough sophomore year (2016). A lot of off-field stuff happened (DUI, suspension). He lost a lot of weight. He can be a really good player in the right setting under the right coach. Given that, he’s probably a Pro Bowler. If he gets (Cowboys defensive coordinator) Rod Marinelli, somebody like that. Under a coach who’s not going to (challenge) him every day.” …  Finished with 127 tackles (15 for loss) and nine sacks. “He got kicked out of the Mississippi State game (Nov. 23),” a third scout said. “He’s a disruptive force but there are games he doesn’t do anything. If everything went right I thought he could be a first-rounder. I don’t know that it has.” From Jackson, Miss.

6. HARRISON PHILLIPS, Stanford (6-3, 305, 5.18, 2-3): Fourth-year junior, two-year starter at NT in a 3-4. “Does things right,” said one scout. “Solomon Thomas was different but this guy fits in with some of those Stanford guys they had before.” Led the Cardinal in tackles, tackles for loss and sacks (7 ½) in 2017. “He’s a dominant guy from the standpoint of controlling the center of the line and making a defense where you’re strong in the middle and all of that,” said a second scout. “You can see that he’s got great power in his upper body (led D-line in bench-press reps with 42). He throws people around. But I’m not sure he has the acceleration or has the fluidness to ever be a great pass rusher. He gets a hold of the guy blocking him and he then recognizes pass and he throws the guy, but by that time the ball’s off. His best position might be 5-technique.” Finished with 159 tackles (28 ½ for loss) and 16 sacks. Exceptional prep wrestler in Omaha, Neb. “What makes him so productive is he has a first-round motor,” said a third scout. “But he struggles against double teams and there’s a lot of tackle production down the field.” Led the position with a Wonderlic of 35.

7. R.J. McINTOSH, Miami (6-4 ½, 286, 5.12, 2-3): Third-year junior praised for his pass rush from 3-technique in the Hurricanes’ 4-3 defense. “Athletic twitch up the field,” said one scout. “An up-field penetrator. He needs to get stronger against double teams. A true 3-technique.” Finished with 103 tackles (23 for loss) and 5 ½ sacks. Impressed scouts Nov. 11 with his performance against Notre Dame LG Quenton Nelson. “Gave Nelson a lot of problems,” said another scout. “Can hit the gap and disrupt. Explosive take-off.” From Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

8. B.J. HILL, North Carolina State (6-3 ½, 308, 4.99, 2-3): Largest hands (10 5/8) among the top 15 DTs. “He’s a banger,” one scout said. “Not an elite guy. Doesn’t make a whole lot of plays. Good rotational guy.” Started at NT in a 4-3 for three years, finishing with 187 tackles (26 ½ for loss) and nine sacks. “Line of scrimmage guy, not a pass rusher,” a second scout said. “High pad level. All power.” Bench-pressed 35 times. “He is the absolute leader of that team,” said a third scout. “Blows you away in an interview. Other than a couple spin moves he doesn’t have much. If I like anything about him is that he’s a snap-to-whistle guy.” From Oakboro, N.C.

9. DERRICK NNADI, Florida State (6-1, 310, 5.39, 3): Started 37 of 48 games at NT. “Plays strong,” one scout said. “For a short, squatty guy he’s got a little bit of pass rush so you don’t always have to take him off the field. He’s a hold-the-point guy, first and foremost. Pretty instinctive guy.” Finished with 153 tackles (24 for loss) and 11 ½ sacks. “I like him better than Hurst,” another scout said. “Plays harder. Plays more violent. Hand use and leverage guy.” Parents are Nigerian. Ran a terrible 40. “Tested poorly,” said a third scout. “Pretty good player on tape. Good guy.” From Virginia Beach, Va.

10. DA’SHAWN HAND, Alabama (6-3 ½, 298, 4.94, 3): Described as an “underachiever” by one scout. Said another: “He doesn’t play as well as he worked out. He’s a prototypical body for a 5-technique. He’s not going to be great rushing over a guard because he doesn’t have a lot of twitch or body quickness. He’s going to have to win with power. A true 3-4 team like Pittsburgh, he has value there. You try to make him a pass rusher, you’re doing him a disservice.” Smart (Wonderlic of 28), long-armed (34 3/8), strong (28 reps on the bench) and fast. State champion prep wrestler. “Always lacked durability,” said a third scout. “Had some back and knee stuff. Lots of stalemates at the line of scrimmage. Tight ends tend to block him. As a rusher he struggles to uncover. A five-star guy that kind of underachieved.” Didn’t start until 2017, finishing with 71 tackles (15 ½ for loss) and 10 sacks. From Woodbridge, Va.

11. JALYN HOLMES, Ohio State (6-5, 284, 4.85, 3): Never started a game from 2014-’16 before starting nine in ’17. Saw most of his action inside on passing downs. “He hasn’t ever produced to the level of his talent,” one scout said. “What he does best is rush as a 3-technique in sub. He is athletic and tough.” Also has 34-inch arms. “Reminds me of Carlos Dunlap,” another scout said. “Not a great player but a steady, solid player in the league. That’s what this guy can become if he gets the right coaching. He’s not a sudden guy. His pass rush seems planless and lacks creativity. Kind of a down-home, sincere kid. Didn’t have an agenda.” Finished with 84 tackles (13 for loss) and four sacks. “Overrated,” said a third scout. “He’s pretty and he’s an athlete, but he doesn’t make any plays.” From Norfolk, Va.

12. JUSTIN JONES, North Carolina State (6-2 ½, 308, 5.11, 3): Started at DT in a 4-3 for two seasons. “He’s a competitive and intense 3-technique,” one scout said. “Needs pass-rush development. He was stuck in front of his blocker an awful lot for a 3-technique. We’d like our 3-technique to be a three-down player and I don’t think this guy is that. He’s one of those guys that wrestles and spars with blockers.” Finished with 115 tackles (21 1/2 for loss) and 7 ½ sacks. “The North Carolina State D-line was the best D-line in college football last year,” a second scout said. “I like his ability to play the run. He can hold the point and gives a semblance of pass rush.” From Austell, Ga.

13. NATHAN SHEPHERD, Fort Hays State (6-3 ½, 314, 5.11, 3-4): A 205-pound LB in Ajax, Ontario who spent two years at Simon Fraser in British Columbia before departing. Worked for two years before walking on at Division II Fort Hays (Kan.) State. “Canadian kid that has bounced around for six years (will be 25 in October),” said one scout. “He’s still very, very raw. He was a big fish in a small pond. He had real good production the three years he played but that’s a level you should have if you’re a big, strong guy. He’s played every position but he’s basically a 3-technique.” Finished with 168 tackles (27 for loss) and 10 sacks. “He walks into the room and he looks like an NFL DT, maybe even a 3-4 DE,” said a second scout. “He did really impressive position work at the combine. He’s just so raw and is going to advance so quickly. He’s going to be a player.” Wore a sweater and tie each night for interviews at the Senior Bowl. 

14. ANDREW BROWN, Virginia (6-3 ½, 292, 5.02, 3-4): Gatorade National Player of the Year in 2013. “Kind of an enigma,” said one scout. “He’s quick and he’s strong and he picks his spots. Looks good. Seldom finishes.” Two-year starter with 94 tackles (26 ½ for loss) and 10 1/2 sacks. Long history of injury. “They played him at end but he’ll have to transition inside,” another scout said. “When he did that at the Senior Bowl he looked pretty **** good.” From Chesapeake, Va. “Strong hands versus tight ends but struggles against bigger bodies,” said a third scout. “He’s better working edges. Five-star recruit who never lived up to the billing. He’s got long arms (34 ½).”

15. P.J. HALL, Sam Houston State (6-0 ½, 308, 4.76, 4): One of the best stories of the draft. Established FCS records for tackles for loss (86 ½) and blocked kicks (14) to go with 42 sacks as a 55-game starter. Fastest DT in the draft. “He’s not a workout guy,” said one scout. “He’s got 85 tackles for loss. He started out as an end and they kicked him back inside. He’s a 3-technique. He’s a short one but he’s big.” Registered 284 tackles in four-year career after red-shirting in 2013. Vertical jump of 38 also led the position. “I looked at him yesterday again,” a second scout said. “Ran 4.76, 28 on the bench. He’s getting drafted in the sixth round. At least.” From Seguin, Texas.

OTHERS: Kahlil McKenzie, Tennessee; Trent Thompson, Georgia; Kendrick Norton, Miami; Tim Settle, Virginia Tech; Folorunso Fatukasi, Connecticut; Bilal Nichols, Delaware; Zach Sieler, Ferris State; Deadrin Senat, South Florida; Kentavius Street, North Carolina State; Du’Vonta Lampkin, Oklahoma; John Franklin-Myer, Stephen F. Austin; Bruce Hector, South Florida; James Looney, California; Poona Ford, Texas; Henry Mondeaux, Oregon; Lowell Lotulelei, Utah.

THE SKINNY

UNSUNG HERO

Zach Sieler, DL, Ferris State: Stunned scouts by declaring a year early. Sieler (6-5 ½, 288, 4.83) had 19 ½ of his 33 sacks in 2016 for the Division II Bulldogs. Besides working out extremely well, he scored 34 on the Wonderlic. “He’ll just brawl kids at that level on his way to a sack,” said one scout. “Kid’s brilliant, graduated and already been offered a job by Chrysler. He was a 215-pound walk-on (from Pinckney, Mich.). A 3-4 team would probably draft him late as a 5-technique because they’re hard to find. He’ll fight you.”

SCOUTS’ NIGHTMARE

Du’Vonta Lampkin, NT Oklahoma: Redshirted in 2015, started two of 17 games in 2016-’17 and renounced his final two years of eligibility. Lampkin (6-4, 345, 5.24) has the longest arms (35 ¼) at the position, benched 31 times and can run. Served a six-game suspension in 2016.

PACKERS’ PICK TO REMEMBER

Jim Temp, DE, Wisconsin: Second-round draft choice in 1955. After a two-year hitch in the Army, Temp played 43 games for the Packers from 1957-’60. Later, he served on the team’s board of directors and executive committee. He was an all-time athlete at La Crosse Aquinas High School.

QUOTE TO NOTE

NFL personnel man: “Everybody talks about get-off and acceleration, they talk about all those things. I think the smooth coordination of your hands and feet, if you look at the great ones, that stands out to me as the No. 1 trait in successful pass rush.”

 

 

 

 

 

Its a good long read...

 

 

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Just now, Mega Flare said:

This has me pretty concerned actually.  We'll see who they select, but who knows where we'll even pick next year.

Ive been saying this for a min... I think this is a good draft to find good depth solid starter guys ... This why im all in for guys like Taven Bryan and Nathan Shep... I think both have potential to give you something as a rusher.... I think Bryan has impact player.

 

Im just not as high on Vea as some .... Ih he was there at 26 .. cool... But guys his body type are normally mainly run defenders.... Its hard to slip a double team 330+lbs.

I think like Poe he will play the run good (probably better then poe) but as a rusher i just dont see it... He may push the pocket some because he is strong *** **** but as a guy penetrating causing havoc... i dont see it,..

 

i know this is a hot take and i could be wrong.. this is my opinion tho

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2 minutes ago, atljbo said:

Ive been saying this for a min... I think this is a good draft to find good depth solid starter guys ... This why im all in for guys like Taven Bryan and Nathan Shep... I think both have potential to give you something as a rusher.... I think Bryan has impact player.

 

Im just not as high on Vea as some .... Ih he was there at 26 .. cool... But guys his body type are normally mainly run defenders.... Its hard to slip a double team 330+lbs.

I think like Poe he will play the run good (probably better then poe) but as a rusher i just dont see it... He may push the pocket some because he is strong *** **** but as a guy penetrating causing havoc... i dont see it,..

 

i know this is a hot take and i could be wrong.. this is my opinion tho

Agreed on Vea.  Luckily, he'l be gone before 26 so thr Branch won't be tempted.  As long as they don't trade up :o

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Just now, Mega Flare said:

Agreed on Vea.  Luckily, he'l be gone before 26 so thr Branch won't be tempted.  As long as they don't trade up :o

i can see us trading up.. i dont think it will be for vea tho ...

 

This is a interesting draft tho... i think the guard and center have some real nice first round talent ... I think the D-Line dont have star type rushers except some of the type guys but i think if you are purely looking for run stopper type guys.. there are some or if you are looking for solid DE/DT guys in the 2nd and 3rd round there are some...

I think if Takk went back to school.. he would have been top 15 easily in this draft ... I think Taven Bryan has that same type situation... I think with another year his stats would have been better and would have had another yer of growth.

 

i think next year QB class will be lacking big time next year so i think the Lines and DB draft will be heavy next year

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I think Taven is the perfect fit for what quinn likes, but also he is the best DT Rusher so I think he will get pick before our pick.. Payne would be there at 26 so I will come down to BPA if Quinn like his traits he will be the Pick if not we will go CB or LB and get 2 DT with the other picks....

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This happens every year, people scrutinize prospects so much that they lose sight of reality. Reality is, although the top end talent at DT is pretty thin, this is probably the deepest DT class in a decade. You can find contributers throughout the draft.

I think the small school guys like PJ Hall and Nathan Shepherd could end up being the best of the bunch.

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1 hour ago, Smiler11 said:

This happens every year, people scrutinize prospects so much that they lose sight of reality. Reality is, although the top end talent at DT is pretty thin, this is probably the deepest DT class in a decade. You can find contributers throughout the draft.

I think the small school guys like PJ Hall and Nathan Shepherd could end up being the best of the bunch.

I don't think anyone is missing this tho... from everybody I've seen talk about the DT class they say it's a good depth class... Quinn has talked about the depth also

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I like Seiler, PJ Hall, Bilial Nichols and Fatukasi. Those guys will give you the production at a much cheaper cost. You can trade down and pick all 4 of them up. No reason to spend a high draft pick on BPA (none of these guys are really that much better, if at all, of their small school counterparts), or need because that is what most teams do. I say trade down, and pick up some more picks. I love small school prospects. They tend to be humble, hungrier, and because they don't get the publicity, come so much cheaper.

I wouldn't mind BJ Hall as a mid rounder. Looney is intriguing because he is athletic for his position. Might be useful as a backup DE for run support rather than DT. Anyway, there is no rational reason to even use a high round draft pick on DT, or to be honest on ANY position. There isn't that much difference between the projected the lower round guys or the higher round ones, and the lower round guys are actually testing much better.

Edited by Intellectually Honest
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On 4/22/2018 at 1:17 PM, atljbo said:

Ive been saying this for a min... I think this is a good draft to find good depth solid starter guys ... This why im all in for guys like Taven Bryan and Nathan Shep... I think both have potential to give you something as a rusher.... I think Bryan has impact player.

 

Im just not as high on Vea as some .... Ih he was there at 26 .. cool... But guys his body type are normally mainly run defenders.... Its hard to slip a double team 330+lbs.

I think like Poe he will play the run good (probably better then poe) but as a rusher i just dont see it... He may push the pocket some because he is strong *** **** but as a guy penetrating causing havoc... i dont see it,..

 

i know this is a hot take and i could be wrong.. this is my opinion tho

JBO I with you on this.

 

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On 4/22/2018 at 1:17 PM, atljbo said:

Ive been saying this for a min... I think this is a good draft to find good depth solid starter guys ... This why im all in for guys like Taven Bryan and Nathan Shep... I think both have potential to give you something as a rusher.... I think Bryan has impact player.

 

Im just not as high on Vea as some .... Ih he was there at 26 .. cool... But guys his body type are normally mainly run defenders.... Its hard to slip a double team 330+lbs.

I think like Poe he will play the run good (probably better then poe) but as a rusher i just dont see it... He may push the pocket some because he is strong *** **** but as a guy penetrating causing havoc... i dont see it,..

 

i know this is a hot take and i could be wrong.. this is my opinion tho

Scout said that Bryan didn't do well at the combine with interviews, wonder if that's true or just some team spreading rumors to push him down?

If Quinn can coach Bryan, think he'd could be an amazing player and everyone will be wondering why he fell to 26 in a couple of years.

Vea could fall, agree, if he fell to 26, be happy with him too. Just anchor the Dline for years.

Would have liked to have read what scouts said about Settle. The contrast between his  game film and his workout was profound. Think Bryan in the first and someone like Settle in the 4th would solidify the Dline for a long time.

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1 hour ago, falconidae said:

Scout said that Bryan didn't do well at the combine with interviews, wonder if that's true or just some team spreading rumors to push him down?

 

naw i can beleive this .....Not really talkative when getting to know him.... Im cool with that ... Takk and Vic are different type guys in there own rights... Bryan is a different type guy

 

 

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3 hours ago, atlbaby said:

JBO I with you on this.

 

This sounds more like JA98 than any of those other guys...

3. TAVEN BRYAN, Florida (6-5, 292, 5.05, 1): Recruited early as an offensive tackle, he came to enjoy defense more and became the first player from Wyoming (Casper) to sign with Gators. “He’s a disruptor but he doesn’t finish,” said one scout. “He might be the most explosive of all these guys. Florida’s defensive line was so bad he got double-teamed most of the time. He has pressures, not sacks.” Third-year junior, one-year starter. “I like everything,” said a second scout. “His person, his athleticism and his ability to get off the ball. He can be a one-gap or a two-gap player. If he gets to the right scheme he can flourish. People think he’s goofy but he’s not. He is who he is.” Minimal production, finishing with 67 tackles (10 ½ for loss) and 5 ½ sacks. “If you were his parents you’d be proud of him because you could say, ‘My son plays his butt off,’” said a third scout. “And he does. But this guy leaves more plays on the field than anybody with his skill set that I’ve ever seen. He is so much more into intensity at the expense of discipline and sound football. He’s going to have to be uncoached … He puts his hand on the ground and just winds up his engine and if he’s got to be in the B gap he’s going to be in that B gap so hard that by the time he finally gets himself in a position to find where the football is it’s already seven yards downfield. Every once in a while he’s going to make not just a normal play but it’ll be a sensational play where he just throws you for an 8-yard loss because every once in a while blind hogs get acorns. They do. If he guesses right he’s a beast. If he guesses wrong he’s upside down some place.” Led defensive linemen in vertical jump (35 inches), broad jump (9-11), short shuttle (4.48) and 3-cone (7.12). “I don’t see it at all,” another scout said. “He plays erect, gets pushed around in the run game, didn’t have a feel for the game. Straight-line, no moves. I’m perplexed.” Wonderlic of 26. Added a fifth scout: “He goes to the combine and his interviews were awful. Little immature just the way he acts and the way he does things. But I’d take him in the 20 area.”

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Anyone else surprised to see Grady Jackson on this list with a comparative statistical career to Haloti Ngata?

Also, I’m not wild about any DT in the first round, but I think it’s likely we go there just based out of overwhelming need. I’d prefer us to double dip in rounds 2/4 with solid rotational guys with upside. That quote about B.J. Hill being “the absolute leader of the locker room” leads me to believe he’s on our radar for that second round pick. 

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