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Bud probably on his way out


EddieK
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Can you trade coaches in the NBA? That's the only way this makes ******* sense. 

But like I said in ABF, I think this is all Bud. I'm not sure how interested he is in this team anymore. I don't really blame him. If he told ressler that he doesn't want to be here... What choice do you have?

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1 minute ago, WOR said:

First topic of discussion.....Coach Bud. Im entirely on the fence with being upset if he leaves. I like Bud. I think he could do great things with the roster were building. BUT, lets not act like hes the perfect coach. So Im gonna Pro/Con him as the Hawks coach. 

Pro:

One of the best player developers Ive ever seen. Prince, Carroll, Millsap, Dorsey, etc, etc. He consistently gets more out of guys.

He runs a good scheme for the modern NBA

Hes shown he can have success with talent

Semi pro- Hes shown he can create good team chemistry. Kind of. The 60 win team was very cohesive. After that, hes struggled to keep the team together. 

 

Cons: 

His late game and X's and O's arent all that great. Hes left me scratching my head a lot. 

I think its fair to say he doesnt want to be here

His tenure as President/GM. I will never forgive him for being too stubborn to let Horford and Millsap go. That set this team back at least two years, and they walked for nothing. Completely idiotic.

I also think its fair to say he seems to have a problem with someone above him making personnel decisions. Tough tits. He proved to be terrible at it himself. 

His showing vs the Cavs in the playoffs was absolutey abysmal. Although, I lay a lot of this at the feet of weak *** Horford. I fully believe if we had that team with Dedmon instead of Horford we would have been competitive. 

 

 

For these reasons I cant definitively say "PLEASE DONT GO!!!!" or "Dont let the door hit ya fool". Hes been a mixed bag in my mind. Honestly, I think im leaning more to the let him go side. I dont think he works well within a GMs vision. I think he has to have it his way, which is the main reason I think he wants to bounce. I dont fault him for this, but in a rebuild we cant have a coach thats going to constantly ***** about the direction the GM is going, or again, hurt the team because hes too attached to players. Thats chaotic. 

I wrote this out down in ABF and I think it fits here as well. 

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2 hours ago, WOR said:

Can you trade coaches in the NBA? That's the only way this makes ******* sense. 

But like I said in ABF, I think this is all Bud. I'm not sure how interested he is in this team anymore. I don't really blame him. If he told ressler that he doesn't want to be here... What choice do you have?

Yes, Doc Rivers was traded from Boston to Clippers for a protect 1st rounder since he was still under contract.

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1 hour ago, WOR said:

I wrote this out down in ABF and I think it fits here as well. 

I think it's important to note how Bud got POBO position to begin with. He was a 2nd year head coach suddenly thrust with responsible he wasn't ready for. He wasn't coaching long enough to gain that but with a new owner and all the Ferry turmoil he wanted some kind of Organizational continuity. Even Wilcox, the AGM at the time had little experience to be GM. The were both learning on the job

Bud's natural affinity for coaching overrode is desire to be an effective POBO. The scales tipped to coaching and WINNING more so than also looking towards the future. It's a balancing act that takes time to master and I don't think he had the experience for it along with an inexperienced GM and new owner.

The biggest failings was not getting something in return for Horgord and Millsap. Bringing in Dwight I also didn't like, but I still think signing Dwight was more owner and Koonin driven. Hometown boy returns home, blah blah blah.

Having said that is wasn't a total abject failure in both roles particulary when it came to the draft:

1. Trading Payne (Ferry pick) for this Minny pick we are about to cash in on #19 - BudCox, they saw that Payne wasn't an NBA player and cashed out early instead of investing time and money.
2. Trading #18 for THJr is a push, (i think if Bud was still in charge he might still be here)
3. Trading Teague for #12 pick which netted us Taurean
4. Drafting Bembry
5. Trading Korver for 2019 Cavs 1st
6. And yes, I'll give BudCox some credit for both Collins and Dorsey. As Schlenk noted he was scouting later picks with GSW and he relied on the existing Hawks scouting department and BudCox for the work they did on the #19 pick research. Additionally, Collins was on the radar before Schlenk was hired thru Hawks minority Owner Mit Shah who is a Wake Forest alum and had BudCox go to a few of his college games (I previously posted the article) to scout him.

Excerpt:

"Mit Shah is a Wake Forest alum and a major benefactor to the school. He recently donated $5 million to the school to build a basketball practice facility. Shah also happens to be a co-owner of the Hawks as he joined the investment team led by principal owner Tony Ressler that purchased the team two years ago.

“He was always nudging me and saying, ‘If you are around at 19, we are going to take you,’” the 19-year-old Collins said. “He came through on his word. I’m happy to be a Hawk. I’m happy to be in Atlanta.”

Shah did more than suggest Collins could be a Hawk. He brought assistant general manager Jeff Peterson to a Wake Forest-Duke game. He spoke to coach Mike Budenholzer about Collins several times before an interview at the NBA Scouting Combine in May.

“We really thought there was no chance he would be there when we picked and there was absolutely no chance he was going to get by us at 19,” Shah said.

Shah was in the Hawks’ war room on draft night Thursday. Manning was at the draft in Brooklyn to support Collins. They began a rapid text exchange when it became clear the Hawks were going to select Collins. Shah described the Hawks’ room as “ecstatic” with the selection."

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1 hour ago, jayu70 said:

Yes, Doc Rivers was traded from Boston to Clippers for a protect 1st rounder since he was still under contract.

Yeah you're right. 

Sun's have an extra first.... Heats #16 

Well kindly take that kind sirs. 

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3 hours ago, WOR said:

Can you trade coaches in the NBA? That's the only way this makes ******* sense. 

But like I said in ABF, I think this is all Bud. I'm not sure how interested he is in this team anymore. I don't really blame him. If he told ressler that he doesn't want to be here... What choice do you have?

it really does makes sense to think trade here.  if the lottery shakes out to where the Hawks have the third pick in the draft and the Suns have the 1st pick, I can see a scenario where the Hawks offer the third pick and Coach Bud.  He is still under contract with the Hawks for two more years.  I don't think any decisions will be made until after the lottery.

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19 hours ago, WOR said:

I'm gonna geek out on a hypothetical scenario just cause I can. 

Bud for 16.

18 and Dennis for a top 10ish pick. 

Bagley at 3. Sexton/young top 10. Gligeouis Alexander 16. Grayson Allen 30.

 

Send it. 

kinda like love getting bags

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The thing with Ferry is what messed this team up. Not only did it affect the team, but coach Bud too. They were working great together to build this team, we were on our way up.

This is the shyt that happens here in ATL. We improve to the point where we open some eyes and then something happens to mess up the flow. It happens to every team in ATL!

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If Budenholzer bolts, what should Hawks get in return?

 

By Steve Hummer

myajc  


 
5h ago, April 16, 2018
As a coach, Mike Budenholzer is top notch. Smart and demanding, even if he is prone to raise his voice at the kids every now and then. Give the man a whiteboard and he will draw up the sharpest inbounds play you’ve ever seen. A work of art, really.

Now that he is also an asset, coveted perhaps by one of the few teams worse than his own Hawks this season, it does no one any good to find flaws. For purposes of resale, Budenholzer is a mint condition, low-mileage coach. We’ll even throw in an extended warranty.  

It was so very nice of the Hawks to give Phoenix permission to interview Budenholzer for their coaching vacancy, but nice ends there. If all goes well out in the desert – and no reason it shouldn’t given the Suns stated desire to hire an established NBA head coach – then it is time for the Hawks to put on a little full-court press for compensation.

Even if Budenholzer is dissatisfied with how his personnel decision-making powers were undercut here, even if he’ll have to swim against the current of a major roster rebuild for seasons more in Atlanta, he’s not someone you just let walk.

A former NBA coach of the year, with two years remaining under contract, Budenholzer is not a throw-away guy. He has trade value – and even in a players’ league, he may be more valuable than just about anyone else in the employ of the Hawks. Not untouchable, mind you – that designation may be reserved for John Collins alone among all the Hawks. But still not a piece one just gives away.

What’s market value for a coach, anyway?

Well, in 2013 the L.A. Clippers hired away Doc Rivers, who had three years remaining on his Boston Celtics deal. Boston got an unprotected 2015 first-round draft pick, that turned out to be inconsequential for the Celtics. They took R.J. Hunter out of Georgia State (he was waived a year later).

When Stan Van Gundy went from Miami to Orlando in 2007, he was worth a second-round draft pick. That turned out to be one Darnell Jackson.

So, by all appearances, if you don’t get extraordinarily lucky you don’t get rich in the used coach market. But compensation must be paid.

The Hawks hardly require any more first-round picks this season – they already have three of them coming. Unless, of course, the Hawks could flip top picks with Phoenix (with the league’s worst record, the Suns have the best lottery odds to land the No. 1 overall). You never know until you ask.

More likely the Hawks will get a future pick – and anything less than a first-rounder is an insult to Budenholzer. 

And, you know, I really like that Phoenix Suns Gorilla. You can never have too much depth at mascot. Just spit-balling here.

Whatever, it behooves us now give this guy nothing but very positive Yelp reviews. If anyone asks, he is the Patton of NBA tacticians, the Tony Robbins of motivational leaders. No time now to undersell Budenholzer’s coaching.

That will happen soon enough after he’s gone, no doubt.

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3 minutes ago, blkbigdog35 said:

Well damm this is very serious then. I hope the hawks have a plan in motion for his departure.

A first round pick. If Hawks settle for a 2nd round pick, I hope fans enjoy rebuilding for the next 20 seasons.

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