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IF you compare Hooper to other second year TEs, he's one of the best


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Seriously, NFL.com allows you to sort stats by position and year. For second year TE's this year, it's Hooper and Henry and nobody else is close.

Hoop: 49 catches/526 yard/3 TDs. Henry was better

Henry 45/576/4, but not by a whole lot, after that, nobody else has more than 30 catches, 350 yards , most have 1 TD

Would have been the 2nd best 2nd year TE in 2016

3rd/4th in 2015

3rd/4th in 2014

2nd in 2013

2nd in 2012

Would have been 5th/6th in 2011, but the 5 ahead of him were Graham, Gronk, Hernandez, Gresham, Dickson.

For a 2nd year TE, Hooper had a pretty good year.

Hoop improved by 30 catches and 255 yards this year, he does a similar improvement in his 3rd year, you've got a real weapon. If he stays the same, still a valuable piece.

 

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Im hoping Hooper can be the solid all around starter and that Saubert develops into the downfield guy who stretches the seems and can get behind LBs.  Paulsen will fill nicely as the 3rd TE or basically blocking jumbo guy. 13 Personnel is something we used a lot last year. 

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7 minutes ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

Hoop pissed me off last year especially with the drops, but our entire offense was off. If seasoned vets like Julio and Sanu get another chance, then Hoop should too. That said, I'm still interested in some of the TEs coming out like Hurst, Gisecki, and Fumagali.

well put ,   plus 10

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49 minutes ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

Hoop pissed me off last year especially with the drops, but our entire offense was off. If seasoned vets like Julio and Sanu get another chance, then Hoop should too. That said, I'm still interested in some of the TEs coming out like Hurst, Gisecki, and Fumagali.

Hoop was fine.

i’m interested in hurst/Goedert/andrews not to replace hooper, but as joker TE for another weapon to compliment with hoop in two TE sets. 

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27 minutes ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

Hoop pissed me off last year especially with the drops, but our entire offense was off. If seasoned vets like Julio and Sanu get another chance, then Hoop should too. That said, I'm still interested in some of the TEs coming out like Hurst, Gisecki, and Fumagali.

 

20 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Hoop was fine.

i’m interested in hurst/Goedert/andrews not to replace hooper, but as joker TE for another weapon in two TE sets. 

Yeah, everybody on the offense was off.

Like the fact that Hooper is working with Ryan  already this offseason.

Yeah, if they took Giseki in the first or second, I'm not mad, just pointing  Hoop's year wasn't as bad as posters here seem to think.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, falconidae said:

 

Yeah, everybody on the offense was off.

Like the fact that Hooper is working with Ryan  already this offseason.

Yeah, if they took Giseki in the first or second, I'm not mad, just pointing  Hoop's year wasn't as bad as posters here seem to think.

 

 

Need more weapons....be it a WR or Joker TE (saubert maybe) or both.

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45 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Seriously, NFL.com allows you to sort stats by position and year. For second year TE's this year, it's Hooper and Henry and nobody else is close.

Hoop: 49 catches/526 yard/3 TDs. Henry was better

Henry 45/576/4, but not by a whole lot, after that, nobody else has more than 30 catches, 350 yards , most have 1 TD

Would have been the 2nd best 2nd year TE in 2016

3rd/4th in 2015

3rd/4th in 2014

2nd in 2013

2nd in 2012

Would have been 5th/6th in 2011, but the 5 ahead of him were Graham, Gronk, Hernandez, Gresham, Dickson.

For a 2nd year TE, Hooper had a pretty good year.

Hoop improved by 30 catches and 255 yards this year, he does a similar improvement in his 3rd year, you've got a real weapon. If he stays the same, still a valuable piece.

 

You are acting like there is 32 second-year TEs drafted same year as Hoop.   There are only a handful of TEs drafted in early rounds each year.

I like Hoop and have hope for Hoop (LOL) - but these stats are rather pointless.

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Hoop is fine as a 2nd TE, we need a 1 TE.

What this says is there are 14 TEs who have had better 2nd year than him in the last 5 drafts.  And that's because we had no other conceivable 1 TE to target...so it's good for perspective, but the perspective shows he's middlin'.

So get a 1, and let him develop as much as he can.

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8 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

You are acting like there is 32 second-year TEs drafted same year as Hoop.   There are only a handful of TEs drafted in early rounds each year.

I like Hoop and have hope for Hoop (LOL) - but these stats are rather pointless.

What does round have to do with it?

And, they're hardly pointless, they show, contrary to what many here believe, that Hoop had a pretty good year for a second year TE.

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1 minute ago, falconidae said:

What does round have to do with it?

And, they're hardly pointless, they show, contrary to what many here believe, that Hoop had a pretty good year for a second year TE.

no, not really - there are 32 starting TE's in the NFL - how does Hoop compare to them after being in NFL for 2 years? - that is the stat.  The rest is just rainbows and unicorns.

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56 minutes ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

Hoop pissed me off last year especially with the drops, but our entire offense was off. If seasoned vets like Julio and Sanu get another chance, then Hoop should too. That said, I'm still interested in some of the TEs coming out like Hurst, Gisecki, and Fumagali.

 

Yep, well point.  Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

 

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Hooper only had 3 drops all year. Sure it sucks that a defender made a heII of a play on one of them & turned in into an INT, but that happens sometimes. You guys reeeeeeaalllllyyy need to stop with this BS about him and "all the drops". He was actually one of the most sure handed TEs in the entire NFL. Only one other TE had less drops & a higher catch % with as many targets as Hooper saw.

****, Sanu had one go off his hands and it ended up a pick, and he had a lower catch % than Hooper, and I believe twice the number of drops. Funny how I don't see you all saying a thing about him though.

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

no, not really - there are 32 starting TE's in the NFL - how does Hoop compare to them after being in NFL for 2 years? - that is the stat.  The rest is just rainbows and unicorns.

???That's just silly. Comparing players to other players at their position at similar points in their careers is a perfectly valid technique. One that has been used on this board many many times.  It's not the only way to compare players, it's certain one way.

 

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1 minute ago, falconidae said:

???That's just silly. Comparing players to other players at their position at similar points in their careers is a perfectly valid technique. One that has been used on this board many many times.  It's not the only way to compare players, it's certain one way.

 

Hunter Henry is an average TE - his numbers were better.

40% of the TEs in 2011 that were better that you cited are average to below average TEs and the ones that are better are much better.

 

I know you are trying to make some point about Hooper, you just fall short of having data to make your point.   At this point, Hooper just hasn't proved much - not saying he won't - he might burst on the scene in 2018 - I hope he does!

 

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OP gets at a pretty strong truth....TE is not a position that hits the ground running. It's a position that takes YEARS to develop for the vast majority of TEs entering the league. (save the Engram nonsense). 

Hooper was solid last year. His blocking improved significantly. He was a reliable third down option. He was unfortunately involved in a small handful of high visibility plays that has everyone underestimating him considerably. But on the whole, it was a solid year for a 2nd year TE. There's reason to think he's got a lot left before he hits his ceiling. And history strongly suggests he'll continue to grow into his role the way that other highly drafted TEs have over the last ~12 years or so. 

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

Hunter Henry is an average TE - his numbers were better.

40% of the TEs in 2011 that were better that you cited are average to below average TEs and the ones that are better are much better.

 

I know you are trying to make some point about Hooper, you just fall short of having data to make your point.   At this point, Hooper just hasn't proved much - not saying he won't - he might burst on the scene in 2018 - I hope he does!

 

Hunter Henry isnt an average TE. 

This isnt fantasy football, man. Purely statistical comparisons without context are of limited value unless you're talking about a very very specific group of TEs. 

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2 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Hunter Henry isnt an average TE. 

This isnt fantasy football, man. Purely statistical comparisons without context are of limited value unless you're talking about a very very specific group of TEs. 

Do you want to make an argument that Hunter Henry is better than any of these?  doesn't even include the rookies from 2017 Draft that have talent.

 

 

2017 NFL Tight End Rankings

 

1. Rob Gronkowski, New England

Hasn’t completed a 16-game season since 2011 because of injuries. But when healthy, there is no better tight end.

 

2. Travis Kelce, Kansas City

For the first time since Tony Gonzalez’s departure, the Chiefs have an elite tight end. Led all TEs in receiving yards with 1,125 on 85 catches in 2016.

 

3. Greg Olsen, Carolina

Became the first tight end in NFL history to post three consecutive 1,000-yard receiving seasons. Olsen ranks in top 10 all-time in catches (622) and receiving yards (7,365) among TEs.

 

4. Jason Witten, Dallas

No. 2 all-time among tight ends in catches and receiving yards with 1,089 for 11,888. Enters this season ready to extend records for most consecutive games played (219) and started (163) in Cowboys history.

 

5. Jimmy Graham, Seattle

Overcame career-threatening knee injury to regain Pro Bowl form. Became first tight end in Seahawks history to record 100-plus receiving yards in back-to-back games as part of 65-catch, 923-yard season.

 

6. Delanie Walker, Tennessee

Prime example of a late bloomer whose skills were underutilized by his former team. Compiled 282 catches since signing with Titans in 2013 compared to 123 in seven seasons with San Francisco.

 

7. Jordan Reed, Washington

Praised as the Redskins player “the offense runs through” by head coach Jay Gruden. Per-game average of 5.5 catches ranked second among all NFL tight ends in 2016.

 

8. Martellus Bennett, Green Bay

Helped pick up the slack for New England when Rob Gronkowski was lost to a back injury. Could improve on his 55-catch campaign from 2016 now that he’s paired with Aaron Rodgers.

 

9. Zach Ertz, Philadelphia

Fell just three catches short in 2016 of tying Keith Jackson’s single-season franchise record for tight ends (81). Sixty-three of those receptions came in final nine games as rookie QB Carson Wentz became more comfortable running Philadelphia’s offense.

 

10. Tyler Eifert, Cincinnati

Multiple injuries ruined the 2016 season of Cincinnati’s top red-zone target (13 TDs in 2015). Durability concerns linger into 2017 following offseason back surgery.

 

11. Kyle Rudolph, Minnesota

12. Cameron Brate, Tampa

 

 

 

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Here are all the 2nd years for TEs drafted since 2008 (sorted by receptions)

Hooper is 18th in receptions, 17th in catch rate, 54th in YPR (25th among TEs w/ at least 25 receptions). 

Here are the cumulative stats for Y1/Y2 of all TEs drafted since 2008.

Hooper is 20th in receptions, 17th in catch rate, 17th in YPR (among TEs w at least 40 receptions)

Everybody needs to relax. 

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Hooper will be fine!  His number of drops get exaggerated greatly due to a couple of them being at key points in a game.  How many drops do you think he had?  5?  7? 10 or more??

Try 3!!!    When it comes to stats, For WR and TEs targeted more than 15 times, Hooper led the team in completion percentage of balls thrown his way.  65 targets, 49 reception = 75%

Julio was at 59% w/ 7 drops and Sanu at 70% w/ 6 drops.

Fox Sports stats:

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons-team-stats?season=2017&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=2&qualified=0&sortOrder=0

 

 

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5 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Do you want to make an argument that Hunter Henry is better than any of these?  doesn't even include the rookies from 2017 Draft that have talent.

 

 

2017 NFL Tight End Rankings

 

1. Rob Gronkowski, New England

Hasn’t completed a 16-game season since 2011 because of injuries. But when healthy, there is no better tight end.

 

2. Travis Kelce, Kansas City

For the first time since Tony Gonzalez’s departure, the Chiefs have an elite tight end. Led all TEs in receiving yards with 1,125 on 85 catches in 2016.

 

3. Greg Olsen, Carolina

Became the first tight end in NFL history to post three consecutive 1,000-yard receiving seasons. Olsen ranks in top 10 all-time in catches (622) and receiving yards (7,365) among TEs.

 

4. Jason Witten, Dallas

No. 2 all-time among tight ends in catches and receiving yards with 1,089 for 11,888. Enters this season ready to extend records for most consecutive games played (219) and started (163) in Cowboys history.

 

5. Jimmy Graham, Seattle

Overcame career-threatening knee injury to regain Pro Bowl form. Became first tight end in Seahawks history to record 100-plus receiving yards in back-to-back games as part of 65-catch, 923-yard season.

 

6. Delanie Walker, Tennessee

Prime example of a late bloomer whose skills were underutilized by his former team. Compiled 282 catches since signing with Titans in 2013 compared to 123 in seven seasons with San Francisco.

 

7. Jordan Reed, Washington

Praised as the Redskins player “the offense runs through” by head coach Jay Gruden. Per-game average of 5.5 catches ranked second among all NFL tight ends in 2016.

 

8. Martellus Bennett, Green Bay

Helped pick up the slack for New England when Rob Gronkowski was lost to a back injury. Could improve on his 55-catch campaign from 2016 now that he’s paired with Aaron Rodgers.

 

9. Zach Ertz, Philadelphia

Fell just three catches short in 2016 of tying Keith Jackson’s single-season franchise record for tight ends (81). Sixty-three of those receptions came in final nine games as rookie QB Carson Wentz became more comfortable running Philadelphia’s offense.

 

10. Tyler Eifert, Cincinnati

Multiple injuries ruined the 2016 season of Cincinnati’s top red-zone target (13 TDs in 2015). Durability concerns linger into 2017 following offseason back surgery.

 

11. Kyle Rudolph, Minnesota

12. Cameron Brate, Tampa

 

 

 

Yes. 

Henry is a better player than Brate, Rudolph, Eifert, Marty, Reed and Witten at this point. Some of this is definitely influenced by injury but at some point, you can't keep saying "if healthy" for guys who are never healthy. ie Eifert/Reed. 

 

There's also an argument to be made that he's better than Jimmy Graham given how much Graham's skillset has eroded. But Graham appears to be transitioning into a new role. If sustainable, he'll get the nod. But 9 yards a reception? Yikes. 

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5 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Yes. 

Henry is a better player than Brate, Rudolph, Eifert, Marty, Reed and Witten at this point. Some of this is definitely influenced by injury but at some point, you can't keep saying "if healthy" for guys who are never healthy. ie Eifert/Reed. 

 

There's also an argument to be made that he's better than Jimmy Graham given how much Graham's skillset has eroded. But Graham appears to be transitioning into a new role. If sustainable, he'll get the nod. But 9 yards a reception? Yikes. 

Hunter Henry may be better than some of those guys - but he ain't yet (thru 2017 season).   I swear, in a level to prop up mediocrity, I have to take on my own players - like Hooper - who I like.......simply because of "homerism" on TATF.

2018 is a big year for Austin Hooper - he has much to prove.  Apparently he has been working harder to up his game (we heard the same schtick last year w/ Schweitzer - and we just paid a no-name guy $4mm/yr to replace him).   Let's see if HOOP does it.  In the race to be the first to say "I told you so" - TATF comes up with these threads like these trying to stretch a player's current proven value.

Hooper has potential - he has shown flashes of it - but not enough to feel comfortable - just seeing that about 30% of TATF wants to take Gesicki in 1st round is a testament to Hooper's play.

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Also, @g-dawg it isnt really accurate to say there are "32 starting TEs" given how much teams mix and match personnel. 

The adjective "starting" really only has value when talking about QB/OL/secondary players for most teams. You're better off looking at snap counts. But thats a pain in the butt. 

So....here's a list of the 2017 TEs with at least 10 receptions.

Henry is 17th of 70 in receptions
He's 15th/70 in YPR. That goes to 12th in you set a qualifying line at 20 catches. 

"Average" would be a guy in the middle of the pack in offensive production and rate. Both Henry and Hooper are closer to the Top 15-25 than average. 

BR1000 ranked all the TEs who played 15% or more of their teams' snaps. That was 87 tight ends. Hooper was ranked 21st. Henry ranked 6th. 

So yeah....yall need to relax. 

 

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2 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Hunter Henry may be better than some of those guys - but he ain't yet (thru 2017 season).   I swear, in a level to prop up mediocrity, I have to take on my own players - like Hooper - who I like.......simply because of "homerism" on TATF.

2018 is a big year for Austin Hooper - he has much to prove.  Apparently he has been working harder to up his game (we heard the same schtick last year w/ Schweitzer - and we just paid a no-name guy $4mm/yr to replace him).   Let's see if HOOP does it.  In the race to be the first to say "I told you so" - TATF comes up with these threads like these trying to stretch a player's current proven value.

Hooper has potential - he has shown flashes of it - but not enough to feel comfortable - just seeing that about 30% of TATF wants to take Gesicki in 1st round is a testament to Hooper's play.

The bold is more of a testament to how TATF struggles to evaluate Falcon players in the context of the league writ large than any alleged deficiencies in Hooper's game. 

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