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So now DQ is saying Matt Ryan's new contract is not the top priority...


middlegatv
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27 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

The bottom line is Drew Brees took about 20% less than his market value to stay in New Orleans AND helped his team while doing so.

When he was 39, when he was 33, he was going for the big deal.

And, he hasn't signed a cap friendly deal since his first Saints deal.

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15 minutes ago, falconidae said:

When he was 39, when he was 33, he was going for the big deal.

And, he hasn't signed a cap friendly deal since his first Saints deal.

At least he'd done ONE team friendly deal in the interim. Does that mean we have to wait til Matt is closer to 40 to get a discount then? Statistically speaking he is on target to actually make slightly more than Brees.  Annnd 2016's Super Bowl had four rookies starting in it although Matt did have us best year. So imo the real question is will we ever see him play at that level again? If not it's time to start taking our backup QB strategy a lot more seriously.

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6 minutes ago, Hurry_Up_And_Buy said:

At least he'd done ONE team friendly deal in the interim. Does that mean we have to wait til Matt is closer to 40 to get a discount then? Statistically speaking he is on target to actually make slightly more than Brees.  Annnd 2016's Super Bowl had four rookies starting in it although Matt did have us best year. So imo the real question is will we ever see him play at that level again? If not it's time to start taking our backup QB strategy a lot more seriously.

The only reason he did a team friendly deal was he was coming off shoulder surgery. 

 

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44 minutes ago, falconidae said:

What did I say that wasn't true?

Dead money is dead money - it affects the team - it is of ZERO concern to the player.

Drew Brees could have signed elsewhere - 2yrs, $58-60mm.  Dead money affects Saints- but not Drew Breejesus in open market scenario.

So a lot of what you said misrepresents the overall scenario.

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

The bottom line is Drew Brees took about 20% less than his market value to stay in New Orleans AND helped his team while doing so.

He's also on the last 2 years of his career more than likely though is all I'm saying. It's apples and oranges in my opinion. When Matt Ryan is 38 and is in win now or you'll never win at all mode and doesn't take a SLIGHTLY more team friendly deal than I'll be in agreement. 

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2 hours ago, g-dawg said:

So has Matt Ryan not “built himself into the fabric of the ATL”?

Sure, but in a way thats different. A whole lot of guys have had careers like Matt with one team for years and years before sorta just meandering off somewhere else for a year or two before retiring. 

Brees' thing is different because of Katrina and his impact on the community as it tried to put itself back together. I mean, you've been around long enough....you remember what that team was like. For that city to be devastated by Katrina and almost left for dead by Benson only to become a consistently competitive franchise overnight was huge. And the fact is, Brees has been the face of that. There's a bond there. 

I've absolutely loved the Ryan years and I can totally see the corresponding argument for why Ryan should be in the same sort of narrative....but I think thats a bit of a reach. He's just the best QB (and probably second best player) in franchise history for a franchise that has had its share of embarrassments but was sort of elevated a bit post 2002. The Vick years, while not perfect, sort of stabilized the franchise. And maybe its the impression I get as an "outsider" but I don't think its a stretch to say the specter of Vick still kinda sorta looms. The attachment is different. 

Look, we've talked about this. I'd love if Matt took a very team friendly deal more in line with Brady's stuff. Its just that my frustration with his failure to do so is going to scale with his age in a way that makes me totally cool with his "every last dollar" approach at the age of 33. If he were 36, the conversation would be different. If he were 38, the "obligation" word starts to enter the equation. But 33 coming off an MVP season followed by another sharp season (although less impressive on a cpl statistical fronts)? I dunno....I can't get beyond "man, that would be awesome" toward "what the heck Matt"

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1 hour ago, Hurry_Up_And_Buy said:

Compared to the length of their careers that's not a super huge "gulf" my friend ..

But if you shorten Brees' career length by 4 years, and take out the corresponding money, he's still pretty considerably higher than Matt. Their respective dollars made since Matt entered the league still favors Brees by ~$15m, not counting this most recent deal. Obviously Matt's going to catch up and pass him with this next contract, but its not like theres any sort of massive inequity. They just happened to have the same chunk of time affect each in other in opposite ways. But part of that is Matt being a better prospect than Brees and earning his way into that huge dollar payday. Had Brees been a better prospect, perhaps he would have received the $60 we paid Mike in his first 5 years. 

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3 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

But if you shorten Brees' career length by 4 years, and take out the corresponding money, he's still pretty considerably higher than Matt. Their respective dollars made since Matt entered the league still favors Brees by ~$15m, not counting this most recent deal. Obviously Matt's going to catch up and pass him with this next contract, but its not like theres any sort of massive inequity. They just happened to have the same chunk of time affect each in other in opposite ways. But part of that is Matt being a better prospect than Brees and earning his way into that huge dollar payday. Had Brees been a better prospect, perhaps he would have received the $60 we paid Mike in his first 5 years. 

Didnt brees jack up his shoulder in SD? Memory is hazy but if i remember right that precipitated his transition out of California.

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9 hours ago, middlegatv said:

... after all this time of TD telling us it was.

DQ also said that they just want to get Matt signed before the 2019 free agency period starts. 2019? 2019??

WTH is going on behind the scenes here?

http://www.nbcsports.com/video/atlanta-falcons-dan-quinn-matt-ryan-catch-rule-changes

I've been telling y'all. Ryan's agent isn't doing no friendly contract. Ryan doesn't care what the contract is. Ryan is telling his agent get me the most and don't bother asking me well I take this, just make sure it's the most. 

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

Dead money is dead money - it affects the team - it is of ZERO concern to the player.

Drew Brees could have signed elsewhere - 2yrs, $58-60mm.  Dead money affects Saints- but not Drew Breejesus in open market scenario.

So a lot of what you said misrepresents the overall scenario.

When you say that he is taking a 20% discount, that's misrepresenting the scenario, because it's far more complicated.  Yes, Brees could have screwed over the Saints and walked, but he's been paid a ton in the past that was intended to be pushed forward.

If you want to argue that he's taking a discount now, then you'd have to say he was robbing them by taking those huge bonuses in the past.  That's been the plan on both sides, and Brees was fair to the Saints by sticking to it.  Honestly, he should have given them a bigger discount if he was being completely fair, but he had all of the leverage.

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48 minutes ago, PK Manley said:

When you say that he is taking a 20% discount, that's misrepresenting the scenario, because it's far more complicated.  Yes, Brees could have screwed over the Saints and walked, but he's been paid a ton in the past that was intended to be pushed forward.

If you want to argue that he's taking a discount now, then you'd have to say he was robbing them by taking those huge bonuses in the past.  That's been the plan on both sides, and Brees was fair to the Saints by sticking to it.  Honestly, he should have given them a bigger discount if he was being completely fair, but he had all of the leverage.

Again, not true.  Breejesus helped the SAINTS every time because the Saints mismanaged their own cap.  Players get cut all the time and never see the end of contracts and every year is a new year and a new negotiation - I am done with this back and forth but you are wrong- nothing was owed to Saints- and Brees did the Saints a favor when he didn’t have too - he could have gone elsewhere for more money - or - forced the Saints to pay him market value - he didn’t.

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3 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Again, not true.  Breejesus helped the SAINTS every time because the Saints mismanaged their own cap.  Players get cut all the time and never see the end of contracts and every year is a new year and a new negotiation - I am done with this back and forth but you are wrong- nothing was owed to Saints- and Brees did the Saints a favor when he didn’t have too - he could have gone elsewhere for more money - or - forced the Saints to pay him market value - he didn’t.

I'll agree to disagree.  If you want to go with the narrative that Drew Brees has been cutting the Saints a deal while collecting huge bonuses to let them kick the can down the road, and then say "it's not a good look" for Matt to get his money, well...

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11 minutes ago, PK Manley said:

I'll agree to disagree.  If you want to go with the narrative that Drew Brees has been cutting the Saints a deal while collecting huge bonuses to let them kick the can down the road, and then say "it's not a good look" for Matt to get his money, well...

Matt has gotten his money every year since 2008.  He has had 3 large contracts already and has collected every dime of it.

I don’t begrudge a man his money but others have taken less - including Brady and now Brees - better QBs who made a pittance on their rookie deals.

These are the facts, and they are undisputed.

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7 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Matt has gotten his money every year since 2008.  He has had 3 large contracts already and has collected every dime of it.

I don’t begrudge a man his money but others have taken less - including Brady and now Brees - better QBs who made a pittance on their rookie deals.

These are the facts, and they are undisputed.

Fine, start fresh with Brees this year and prorate all of the bonuses to his past 2016 deal.  Then they effectively paid him $27 million per year from 2016-17.  Then $25 million per year from 2018-19.

That would be the same as the market rate of $24 million per year in 2016-17, and $28 million in 2018-2019.  Mickey Loomis using the cap like a credit card aside, Brees is getting market rate all said and done. 

He also has the same agent as Matt Ryan, fwiw.

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7 hours ago, middlegatv said:

It's on the video, buddy.

Just because you're a mod doesn't make you right or smarter than the rest of us.

The next time you want to accuse me of lying, have some guts and meet me in person and say it to my face.

The video says none of that, try again

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Or Ryan has a year left on his contract, free agency is pretty much over, both sides know Ryan will retire a Falcon, and the draft is less than 30 days away. Only these boards would think "there is something behind the scenes"

Edited by TRUju2111
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