since68andcounting

Gesecki

154 posts in this topic

59 minutes ago, AlabamaFalconFan said:

I love Mayock, but this DT class blows.  

Vita- solid first rounder

Payne- didn't do **** his entire college career and now a first round pick???  No way man.

Bryan- has played since high school but looks like a first year player.  Seriously everyone talks about how "raw" he is, but he just can't play.  Looks like a chicken with his head cut off.

Hurst- solid, stock will drop cause of his heart crap.

That's this years first round talent.  It suxs man, and isnt close to best in last 10 years. We need vita to fall or to hold out for a DT in later rounds.

 

You think Payne is overrated? Tell me why because I am all in on that dude at 26. I think he’ll be a better NFL player than college player. I see shades of Suh in him. With superior strength and athleticism. 

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7 minutes ago, quotemokc said:

Soooo Jimmy Graham?

Eric Ebron :ninja:

I think the Ebron comment proved his point, lol. 

Maybe you should have said Vernon Davis or Brandon Pettigrew. :ninja:

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1 minute ago, quotemokc said:

Eric Ebron :ninja:

Seriously.  The list goes on and on.  Ebron.  Maxx Williams.  Eifert.  Gresham.  Pettigrew.  Keller.  The last really good TE taken in the first was Olsen in 2007 and the team that picked him there had no idea how to use him lol.  

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1 minute ago, Butudontseeme™ said:

You think Payne is overrated? Tell me why because I am all in on that dude at 26. I think he’ll be a better NFL player than college player. I see shades of Suh in him. With superior strength and athleticism. 

My concerns w Payne is his abilities didn’t usually translate to production, and that’s on a stacked defense where he didn’t have to be solely focused on.

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6 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

My concerns w Payne is his abilities didn’t usually translate to production, and that’s on a stacked defense where he didn’t have to be solely focused on.

Against the VERY BEST competition, college had to offer in Clemson & Georgia in playoff, Payne showed an ability to dominate.

As to making a lot of plays, you must understand Bama’s scheme and Payne’s responsibilities in Saban’s scheme.

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34 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

My concerns w Payne is his abilities didn’t usually translate to production, and that’s on a stacked defense where he didn’t have to be solely focused on.

@g-dawg beat me to it but on the biggest stage he showed the ability to dominate. He looks like an as beater and paired up with Quinn, Jarrett, Takk and the rest of the brotherhood, I think Payne could be destined to be a stud duck. 

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

You just want Gesicki,  so you are overhyping this.

Besides, we are still a month away and these mock draft sites are gonna shuffle 2-3 more times before the draft.   It could be that by mid-April Gesicki is a consensus 1st rounder - or not.

One thing I know....there are 32 NFL teams, they were all at NFL Combine and the GMs, HCs and Scouts know how to watch game film.    Gesicki went to Penn Freaking State - not NE Idaho A&I State.

Yeah, you're right. I'm hyping it. Y'know occasionally i see guys that just flash. The last player I really flipped over was Aaron Donald. I've liked other guys since then, but this is the first one I've seen in a while that looks like legit pro-bowl talent that people are kind of "meh" on. He's a steal at #26 imo. Just like Donald would've been a steal even at #6. Sometimes, you gotta get your head out of your perceived needs and go BPA. You need playmakers in this league. We can get a run plugger in the 2nd or 3rd round. Personally I'd take Gisecke at #26 if his mental profile passed the muster.

Walter has him round 2-4. NFL com has him 1-2. Most mocks have him around 50ish. Yeah, he can't block. But can't he, or won't he? Gonz couldn't block either when he entered the league.

This last sentence really sold me, from NFL.com:

Quote

Ball skills stand out amongst tight end class of 2018. Confident focused pass catcher. Prep standout in volleyball and basketball with the leaping and timing to prove it. Uses length and springs to create rare catch radius. Makes in-air adjustments to the ball and is in optimal position to pull it in when it gets there. Hasn't had a legitimate pass drop in two years.

 

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33 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

D is Gisecke.

A is Tony Gonzalez

B is Julio Jones

C is Steve Smith

E is Shannon Sharpe

Give me Vernon Davis' combine numbers please - or as I like to call him - the waste of human flesh.

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2 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

Yeah, you're right. I'm hyping it. Y'know occasionally i see guys that just flash. The last player I really flipped over was Aaron Donald. I've liked other guys since then, but this is the first one I've seen in a while that looks like legit pro-bowl talent that people are kind of "meh" on. He's a steal at #26 imo. Just like Donald would've been a steal even at #6. Sometimes, you gotta get your head out of your perceived needs and go BPA. You need playmakers in this league. We can get a run plugger in the 2nd or 3rd round. Personally I'd take Gisecke at #26 if his mental profile passed the muster.

Walter has him round 2-4. NFL com has him 1-2. Most mocks have him around 50ish. Yeah, he can't block. But can't he, or won't he? Gonz couldn't block either when he entered the league.

This last sentence really sold me, from NFL.com:

 

Wow, you knew about Aaron Donald?  Amazing, literally no one else was on him....the scouts didn't know about Aaron Donald, either.   You sir are a savant!!! :ninja:

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1 hour ago, Butudontseeme™ said:

You think Payne is overrated? Tell me why because I am all in on that dude at 26. I think he’ll be a better NFL player than college player. I see shades of Suh in him. With superior strength and athleticism. 

Suh was ungodly productive in college. He almost won the Heisman as a defensive lineman which is impossible. 

I like Payne's skill set but worry he is too much like Robert Nkemdiche, physically dominant but not enough football awareness to seal the deal. 

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11 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Give me Vernon Davis' combine numbers please - or as I like to call him - the waste of human flesh.

Ok, added to the chart. I get it. The numbers alone mean nothing other than potential. You have to determine if the guy will have the mental makeup of Gronkowski or Aaron Hernandez. But assuming that passes, I don't see how you can miss with this guy at #26. Vernon Davis was faster straight line. But Gisecke has better change of direction in both 3-cone and 20 yd. His 20 yard topped Julio's. Also a much larger catch radius.

5playersb.thumb.png.0c696f81e1d754a1cfd35f8a1db5a7aa.png

 

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15 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Wow, you knew about Aaron Donald?  Amazing, literally no one else was on him....the scouts didn't know about Aaron Donald, either.   You sir are a savant!!! :ninja:

Ok, man...sure...

There were people tons of people on this board saying he wasn't 1st round talent because he was too short. 

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Just now, since68andcounting said:

Ok, added to the chart. I get it. The numbers alone mean nothing other than potential. You have to determine if the guy will have the mental makeup of Gronkowski or Aaron Hernandez. But assuming that passes, I don't see how you can miss with this guy at #26. Vernon Davis was faster straight line. But Gisecke has better change of direction in both 3-cone and 20 yd. His 20 yard topped Julio's. Also a much larger catch radius.

5playersb.thumb.png.0c696f81e1d754a1cfd35f8a1db5a7aa.png

 

numbers are just a part of the overall evaluation.  Most talent evaluators care about these numbers to a certain degree - but not at the value guys like you and Kayoh place on them.

Basically at 40% of what a Tight End is supposed to do, Gisecki sucks donk balls.    I won't hate the pick if we take him, but I really don't believe we are looking to take a TE in the 1st round.

Falcons also seem to be scouting cornerbacks - they have a lot of positions to fill and may double-dip at DT.    

Just don't see it my friend.

 

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3 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

Ok, man...sure...

There were people tons of people on this board saying he wasn't 1st round talent because he was too short. 

literally NO ONE said that on TATF.

I would say 80% of TATF was in love w/ Aaron Donald.  Had we not needed a Left Tackle, he probably would have been the pick.  I know Mike Smith and Mike Nolan loved him that year as the Falcons coaching staff coached the Senior Bowl.

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1 minute ago, Summerhill said:

Suh was ungodly productive in college. He almost won the Heisman as a defensive lineman which is impossible. 

I like Payne's skill set but worry he is too much like Robert Nkemdiche, physically dominant but not enough football awareness to seal the deal. 

I’d say Payne showed his football IQ by playing his role the way he did at bama.

correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Nkemdiche have work ethic and priorities concerns coming out of Ole Miss? I haven’t seen those types of red flags associated with Payne. 

As far as the Suh comparison, I just mean from a physical attribute aspect. Otherworldly strength and athleticism. 

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2 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Basically at 40% of what a Tight End is supposed to do, Gisecki sucks donk balls.    I won't hate the pick if we take him, but I really don't believe we are looking to take a TE in the 1st round.

100% of what an offense tries to do is score TD's and elite receiving TE's are very valuable. Evan Engram went #23 overall last year and was totally worth it. 

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23 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

Yeah, you're right. I'm hyping it. Y'know occasionally i see guys that just flash. The last player I really flipped over was Aaron Donald. I've liked other guys since then, but this is the first one I've seen in a while that looks like legit pro-bowl talent that people are kind of "meh" on. He's a steal at #26 imo. Just like Donald would've been a steal even at #6. Sometimes, you gotta get your head out of your perceived needs and go BPA. You need playmakers in this league. We can get a run plugger in the 2nd or 3rd round. Personally I'd take Gisecke at #26 if his mental profile passed the muster.

Walter has him round 2-4. NFL com has him 1-2. Most mocks have him around 50ish. Yeah, he can't block. But can't he, or won't he? Gonz couldn't block either when he entered the league.

This last sentence really sold me, from NFL.com:

 

Gonzalez couldn't block coming into the league and didn't block in the league. Yes, he is a hall of famer. But to compare a prospect to Gonzzlez because of his combine numbers and neglect to add someone like vernon davis type players is showing an agenda. No prospect is a sure fire hit. I wouldn't hate a gesicki pick at 26, but I personally would rather go DT if one of the big 4 are still on the board. If they are not, then I would consider it.

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1 hour ago, Butudontseeme™ said:

You think Payne is overrated? Tell me why because I am all in on that dude at 26. I think he’ll be a better NFL player than college player. I see shades of Suh in him. With superior strength and athleticism. 

 Only three sacks and five TFLs during his three year career at Alabama (two as a starter). Can't handle a double team.  Checks out vs crappy competition.   

Some on these boards say that a player has "dog" in them... aka they fight non stop.  Payne waited until the sugar bowl and national championships to do anything.  I don't want a first round pick wasted on a dude that doesn't work every play.  Go watch Jarrett ... His motor is non stop, that's what I want.

3 years... 5 tfl and 3 sacks... in college. 

Dude is going to be beat like a drum in the NFL, his ears will be down, and his tail between his legs, cause dude is no dog.

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4 minutes ago, Butudontseeme™ said:

I’d say Payne showed his football IQ by playing his role the way he did at bama.

correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Nkemdiche have work ethic and priorities concerns coming out of Ole Miss? I haven’t seen those types of red flags associated with Payne. 

As far as the Suh comparison, I just mean from a physical attribute aspect. Otherworldly strength and athleticism. 

Yes, Nkemdiche was a headcase off the field and as far as I know Payne is not. 

By football IQ, I mean once you blow up your blocker like Payne is good at, what happens next? Do you sack the QB or tackle to RB for a loss like Suh would do, or does the QB step up in front of you or does the RB make a cut and continue the play like what often happened with Nkemdiche? 

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1 minute ago, Summerhill said:

100% of what an offense tries to do is score TD's and elite receiving TE's are very valuable. Evan Engram went #23 overall last year and was totally worth it. 

whenever you cannot do the entire job of a position - it makes you less valuable.    Evan Engram is a good player and I won't trash him.  Heck, I am not trashing Gesicki, either - however, it is a fair and legit point to bring up a fact that a player is one dimensional.   There are less plays you can successfully run for an offense with a deficient blocker and it makes substitution patterns a little more obvious to a defense when guessing what's coming.

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2 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

literally NO ONE said that on TATF.

I would say 80% of TATF was in love w/ Aaron Donald.  Had we not needed a Left Tackle, he probably would have been the pick.  I know Mike Smith and Mike Nolan loved him that year as the Falcons coaching staff coached the Senior Bowl.

C'mon man. There were a lot of people on this board who said Donald wasn't worth #6. "Maybe if he falls to our 2nd" was a common reply.

 Of course I knew we desperately needed a LT, but really wanted to find a way to get Donald. It turns out we got a consistent, solid left tackle, when we could've had a perennial pro-bowl DT.

The current situation is similar imo. There are a lot of people who think the "1st round" DTs other than Vea are overrated. And we have Jarrett. We really need a NT more than a UT. We can get a run plugger in round 2 or 3. Or we can spend #1 on an adequate penetrating DT (depending on who drops). When there's a potentially serious long term offensive weapon that could easily fill the #3 wideout role as a total mismatch.

I guess the argument really comes down to drafting need vs. BPA. I'm becoming more a BPA guy as I get older.

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11 minutes ago, AlabamaFalconFan said:

 Only three sacks and five TFLs during his three year career at Alabama (two as a starter). Can't handle a double team.  Checks out vs crappy competition.   

Some on these boards say that a player has "dog" in them... aka they fight non stop.  Payne waited until the sugar bowl and national championships to do anything.  I don't want a first round pick wasted on a dude that doesn't work every play.  Go watch Jarrett ... His motor is non stop, that's what I want.

3 years... 5 tfl and 3 sacks... in college. 

Dude is going to be beat like a drum in the NFL, his ears will be down, and his tail between his legs, cause dude is no dog.

Do you understand the 3-4 defense? and the responsibility of the NT?   In Saban's defense, Da'Ron Payne's job was to eat blocks and let the LBs make the plays.

Image result for alabama defensive alignment

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3 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

whenever you cannot do the entire job of a position - it makes you less valuable.    Evan Engram is a good player and I won't trash him.  Heck, I am not trashing Gesicki, either - however, it is a fair and legit point to bring up a fact that a player is one dimensional.   There are less plays you can successfully run for an offense with a deficient blocker and it makes substitution patterns a little more obvious to a defense when guessing what's coming.

I think people are forgetting 2013. Gonzalez wasn't a blocker and Levine was the blocking TE. Teams knew that when Tony went off the field and Levine came on that it was for sure a run play and snuffed it out. 

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