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Big_Dog

Tougher Gun Laws - Yea or Nea

1,876 posts in this topic

22 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

Like I said in the other thread, you must not have a twitter account if you think it's entirely anti-gun.

I didn’t say it’s all anti-gun. I said it’s not all-inclusive. 

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18 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

I don't pretend to know the constitution like a lot of you. But I know amendments can be ratified. And I would take a psychological evaluation to vote. It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. I know a lot feel differently. 

I’m one of them. Prior restraints make rights into privileges. 

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15 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I’m one of them. Prior restraints make rights into privileges. 

And that's fine. I can respect people that disagree with me. I don't follow the crowd where it has to be my way.

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On 3/31/2018 at 10:27 PM, capologist said:

And it's typical of the left to think the only solution to problems in society are more ****** pieces of government legislation...

What they cannot mandate, they want to ban, and what they cannot ban, they want to mandate.  

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I'm not following how a clear backpack turns school into prisons.  I think they're generally a terrible idea, mostly because they're useless (is anyone seriously arguing Nikolas Cruz would have been stopped if only he'd had a clear backpack?), but I've been to concerts and sporting events that required clear bags (mostly purses for women), and nobody said "man, I feel like I'm in prison instead of at a concert or sporting event."

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On 3/30/2018 at 2:37 PM, AF89 said:

We are the voice for first line of defense against Tyranny!

The press and protestors are a threat  to our president!!

As for NRA i dont agree with everything they say i but i understand that both sides of the debate are going to have their more extreme views some of the views of the gun control nuts just makes me shake my head

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A lot of murders on the street could be curtailed if we went back to an old law that was fought and stopped by the ACLU.

They did it for the right reasons, infringing on citizens rights to be free from unlawful search and seizure. BUT . .. with the body cams officers are now wearing what would be wrong with an officer doing a stop and frisk when there are extenuating circumstances where an officer might need to shake down a group of gangsters hanging out in a known high crime area? The camera would have to be on to protect all parties. I'd bet hundreds of guns would be removed from arseholes who had no right to own one. Past felons, wanted persons, persons holding stolen guns. Just a thought.

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1 hour ago, big_dog said:

A lot of murders on the street could be curtailed if we went back to an old law that was fought and stopped by the ACLU.

They did it for the right reasons, infringing on citizens rights to be free from unlawful search and seizure. BUT . .. with the body cams officers are now wearing what would be wrong with an officer doing a stop and frisk when there are extenuating circumstances where an officer might need to shake down a group of gangsters hanging out in a known high crime area? The camera would have to be on to protect all parties. I'd bet hundreds of guns would be removed from arseholes who had no right to own one. Past felons, wanted persons, persons holding stolen guns. Just a thought.

I'm in general not a fan of "stop and frisk" laws.  Having said that, I appreciate you focusing the attention on people who the police have reason to suspect might not be law abiding, and might be armed improperly.

I'd quibble over the propriety of what amounts to a license to search people without probable cause.  But I appreciate the focus at least being in the right place.

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1 hour ago, big_dog said:

A lot of murders on the street could be curtailed if we went back to an old law that was fought and stopped by the ACLU.

They did it for the right reasons, infringing on citizens rights to be free from unlawful search and seizure. BUT . .. with the body cams officers are now wearing what would be wrong with an officer doing a stop and frisk when there are extenuating circumstances where an officer might need to shake down a group of gangsters hanging out in a known high crime area? The camera would have to be on to protect all parties. I'd bet hundreds of guns would be removed from arseholes who had no right to own one. Past felons, wanted persons, persons holding stolen guns. Just a thought.

This is just awful. Freedom from search was a pillar of our freedom from the King. Look up "The Intolerable Acts".

Probable cause is needed to prevent the pirates from stealing from, kidnapping, raping, extorting and murdering. There is little justice as it is with authority being abused and people dying right and left (mostly folks that reflect very little sunlight) and you think giving over MORE authority and restricting Freedom MORE is any kind of answer?

 

 

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58 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I'm in general not a fan of "stop and frisk" laws.  Having said that, I appreciate you focusing the attention on people who the police have reason to suspect might not be law abiding, and might be armed improperly.

I'd quibble over the propriety of what amounts to a license to search people without probable cause.  But I appreciate the focus at least being in the right place.

I mean, we still have the Terry stop for just this type of situation.  The problem is a "group of youths" in a "high crime area" is not sufficient for reasonable suspicion in an of itself, and wherever this is tried leads to disproportionate impact on minorities.

I just wish the criminal enhancements for using a firearm in a crime weren't a bargaining chip but instead a mandate.  If we are going to go after those who illegally possess firearms, the first step is to ensure that those that you have already caught using them for criminal purposes are hammered to the fullest extent of the law.  Extending accomplice liability for crimes involving firearms would be a nice addition.

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55 minutes ago, Doug Carlton said:

This is just awful. Freedom from search was a pillar of our freedom from the King. Look up "The Intolerable Acts".

Probable cause is needed to prevent the pirates from stealing from, kidnapping, raping, extorting and murdering. There is little justice as it is with authority being abused and people dying right and left (mostly folks that reflect very little sunlight) and you think giving over MORE authority and restricting Freedom MORE is any kind of answer?

I put it out there as a thought and to inspire some responses. Thanks for your input.

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Gun guys need to get their side under control. You wonder why people are calling for an outright ban?

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/father-forgot-he-put-gun-in-his-sons-backpack-he-was-arrested-for-what-he-did-next/ar-AAvyKc2?li=BBnbfcL

 

Father forgot he put gun in his son's backpack. He was arrested for what he did next.

MIAMI - As a Miami father left his home Thursday morning to take his 8-year-old son to Kendale Elementary, he put his pistol in the boy's backpack - then forgot about the weapon, police said.

But instead of calling authorities, Ramon Nuiry walked into the school and asked administrators to summon the boy with the bag. Inside the office, Nuiry fished the gun out of the bag, put it in his waistband and left the school, according to an arrest report.

Nuiry, 53, was arrested and charged Thursday with possessing a weapon on school grounds, improper exhibition of a weapon and possession of a concealed firearm. He was booked into a jail late Thursday.

A terrified parent who saw Nuiry take the weapon out of the bag notified school officials, who called Miami-Dade Schools police. Detectives reviewed surveillance footage, which confirmed the account.

Police arrested Nuiry on Thursday afternoon, when he came to pick up the boy at the Kendall school. He confessed, according to an arrest report by Miami-Dade Schools Detective John Messenger, and the gun was found inside the car.

The arrest report did not say whether Nuiry admitted why he put the weapon in the book bag to begin with.

Visit Miami Herald at www.miamiherald.com

 

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1 minute ago, Optimus_Cr1m35 said:

Gun guys need to get their side under control. You wonder why people are calling for an outright ban?

 

how can you hold me responsible for what another man does?

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46 minutes ago, Doug Carlton said:

how can you hold me responsible for what another man does?

I'm not holding you, individually responsible. I'm suggesting that you, as in the gun-owning/law abiding community, should be doing everything within your power to not let this stuff happen.

 

It's like this... second-hand smoke can cause health issues. I'm a smoker (it's horrible, I'm in the process of quitting). I do everything in my power to stay away from non-smokers, as well as passing that information on to other smokers. My father-in-law will light up anywhere, at anytime. I go out of my way to be as far away and as hidden as possible. In an effort to not be lumped in with the a*shole (I actually like my father in law) smoking in front of kids, I'll suggest we head somewhere else. I understand that although I'm doing the right thing, others within my sub-culture are not, so I make a point to try to rectify that.

 

And what happens when people do smoke where ever they like? It gets removed. I went to a concert deal in downtown Phoenix 2 years ago, and they had little smoking huts for the smokers, which was nice. But a few turds decided they didn't want to follow the rules, smoking where ever they pleased, and they just banned smoking altogether.

 

 

 

Before you read too much into it, I do understand the difference between smoking and the 2nd amendment. This is simply an analogy.

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8 minutes ago, Optimus_Cr1m35 said:

I'm not holding you, individually responsible. I'm suggesting that you, as in the gun-owning/law abiding community, should be doing everything within your power to not let this stuff happen.

 

So again I ask you, how can you possibly hold me responsible for what another man does? What could ANYONE in the "gun-community" have done to "get this under control"? This was in MIAMI...and our inability to  "get this jackhole under control" this is reason and evidence for understanding people calling for an outright ban?

Are you even serious?

 

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23 minutes ago, Doug Carlton said:

So again I ask you, how can you possibly hold me responsible for what another man does? What could ANYONE in the "gun-community" have done to "get this under control"? This was in MIAMI...and our inability to  "get this jackhole under control" this is reason and evidence for understanding people calling for an outright ban?

Are you even serious?

 

I'm dead serious.

We read about this stuff all the time. Guy leaves his gun in backpack. Kid gets a hold of someone's gun, shoots another kid. Guy leaves gun in walmart bathroom. It happens all the time. These guys are the ones who show up on the news. They're the reason that there's a feeling that gun owners just aren't as safe/trained as they need to be.

It's like kids coloring on the walls with crayons. Most kids won't go out of their way to color on the wall. Accidents happen, and that's understandable. But, if the kids keep coloring on the walls, you don't build a shield on top of the wall to protect it, you don't hire a guard to watch over the wall. You take the crayons away. When my kids were younger, I told my son (who is the oldest of the 2) that if if the walls got colored on, even if it wasn't by him, the crayons were going away. Guess what he did? He stopped his sister from coloring on the wall when he could, and alerted us when he was unable to stop her. My wife's classroom just took all the crayons from the kids. Why? because a few kids colored on stuff they weren't supposed to. Did all the kids do it? No. Did some of the kids who didn't color on the walls know that others were? yeah, and they said nothing.

 

So, the question is, have you ever seen someone do something stupid with a gun? Did you stop them? Did you alert the authorities?

 

Probably not, because it wasn't your "responsibility"...

Edited by Optimus_Cr1m35

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And you're absolutely able to deny that it's your responsibility. That's up to you. You can do nothing to stop these types of situations from happening. But, when people get tired of this, and they already are, they're eventually going to start restricting your access to guns. Because not everyone is going to be as safe. Not everyone is going to be as smart.

 

You have to remember, that we as a society can only move as fast as our slowest member.

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14 minutes ago, Optimus_Cr1m35 said:

So, the question is, have you ever seen someone do something stupid with a gun? Did you stop them? Did you alert the authorities?

 

Probably not, because it wasn't your "responsibility"...

did not see this guy do what he did. so how could I have stopped it? How could anyone that did not know have stopped it? Your circular logic does not even address the statement that you made that the community need to get "our side" under control. This guy isn't on "our side", he's a careless idiot that deserves the trouble he's found by being careless and callous with a deadly weapon.

and you don;t know anything about me personally...if you did you would NEVER write what you just wrote.

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14 minutes ago, Optimus_Cr1m35 said:

And you're absolutely able to deny that it's your responsibility. That's up to you. You can do nothing to stop these types of situations from happening. But, when people get tired of this, and they already are, they're eventually going to start restricting your access to guns. Because not everyone is going to be as safe. Not everyone is going to be as smart.

 

You have to remember, that we as a society can only move as fast as our slowest member.

Again, it was NOT my responsibility, that is not up to me, it is the reality and the truth. People want someone, anyone to be responsible except for the idiots that do these things and make all kinds of noises about "there ought be a law" and "you guys need to control your side" and 'no wonder we want to take away guns" and all that tripe instead of laying blame where it lays, with the idiot.

This is not about a gun or our side or your side or ANY side. This was stupid, wrong and the guy should be held responsible without anyone else being pulled into the blame cycle.

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55 minutes ago, Doug Carlton said:

Again, it was NOT my responsibility, that is not up to me, it is the reality and the truth. People want someone, anyone to be responsible except for the idiots that do these things and make all kinds of noises about "there ought be a law" and "you guys need to control your side" and 'no wonder we want to take away guns" and all that tripe instead of laying blame where it lays, with the idiot.

This is not about a gun or our side or your side or ANY side. This was stupid, wrong and the guy should be held responsible without anyone else being pulled into the blame cycle.

The problem is, the idiot's on your side result in people dying.

 

Again, and this is simple, if gun owners want to continue being so, they need to get their house in order. You should be out pounding pavement to make your side look as good as possible. You should be calling for required training, required background checks, and any thing else you can possibly think of to have these incidents happen less often.

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