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Radical Solution for the Falcons Offensive Future


lostnmexico
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3 hours ago, caver50 said:

First of all, I would like to see a QB that's a little more mobile and then a QB with a stronger Arm and I'm willing to try someone else that might give us a Super Bowl win, since I don't believe that Matt ever will. Every year someone say's we have to keep this guy or that guy and what good has it done. I've been watching the Falcons for a very long time and not one Super bowl win (not one)so we can stay with the same people and most likely same results. 

The thing that bothers me the most is how all of you treat the op just for expressing his opinion. so one day when you think that you have a good idea and people start calling you names and laughing at you, perhaps you'll remember this. Have a great day.

It's not informed though and the OP doesn't give a good solution about how to replace or better what we have.

So I'm not really sure why he even bothered writing this thread.I understand folks want this and that's about certain players but when you've got a player like Ryan playing the position aswell as he's has to me looking to off load him like the OP suggests is sucide.

Lets be honest here there are very few QBs in this league that are better than Ryan right now or have been better the last 4-5 seasons.

To me why wouldn't we ride or die with Ryan until the wheels fall off there's no one else at this present time that's available that is better so why is it all of a sudden a good time to replace him.

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29 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

It's not informed though and the OP doesn't give a good solution about how to replace or better what we have.

So I'm not really sure why he even bothered writing this thread.I understand folks want this and that's about certain players but when you've got a player like Ryan playing the position aswell as he's has to me looking to off load him like the OP suggests is sucide.

Lets be honest here there are very few QBs in this league that are better than Ryan right now or have been better the last 4-5 seasons.

To me why wouldn't we ride or die with Ryan until the wheels fall off there's no one else at this present time that's available that is better so why is it all of a sudden a good time to replace him.

Good example >>> The Eagles with Foles. No one expected that, but the Eagles put a good team in front of Foles. So you take whats considered at the time an average QB and won the SB. Did Foles win it or did the team win it ? You give a QB enough time to pass and he will complete the pass, most any QB. Something Ryan never seems to have much of.

Ryan will have to prove his self this year. If he doesn't improve his accuracy this year, I would say he is on the downhill slide. Then what ? Realistically Ryan will probably be with us long term, we'll see.

I watched us ride or die with every player we've ever had, it gets old and I have serious doubts that Ryan can win the big dance.

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7 minutes ago, caver50 said:

Good example >>> The Eagles with Foles. No one expected that, but the Eagles put a good team in front of Foles. So you take whats considered at the time an average QB and won the SB. Did Foles win it or did the team win it ? You give a QB enough time to pass and he will complete the pass, most any QB. Something Ryan never seems to have much of.

Ryan will have to prove his self this year. If he doesn't improve his accuracy this year, I would say he is on the downhill slide. Then what ? Realistically Ryan will probably be with us long term, we'll see.

I watched us ride or die with every player we've ever had, it gets old and I have serious doubts that Ryan can win the big dance.

I don't think the Eagles is a good example of what your describing because if you go back over the decade probably further the mentioned is a very rare occurrence.

Ryan isnt declining he just had a rough year adjusting to a new OC is all and his play was a little off in areas much like 2015.

Again who are you suggesting that is available that could pick up the offense and replace Ryan?

If the Falcons were stupid enough to do what your suggesting and it doesn't work where does that leave the team and you of course have to forget about instant gratification because the new guy isn't winning year 1 so that's possibly another year or 3 till you see anything.

Ryan has proven over his whole career he can win at all levels bar finishing the job again the question becomes who do you go with as a replacement and who has played that is available at Ryan's level for the last 5 seasons and is a proven winner.

Right now with this team I can pretty much write down 9-12 regular season wins and the play-offs for a Ryan led team and he's pretty much done that the majority of his career.

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On 2/11/2018 at 1:17 PM, lostnmexico said:

Career Completion percentage of over 60%.  I don't care if he is black, blue, or Green.  Anybody who protects the ball does not throw INTs and averages five yards a pop can play.

And considering the recievers he has had to throw to, a 60% completion rate suggests he is very accurate!

Completion percentage with today's rules should easily be over 65%.

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2 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

I don't think the Eagles is a good example of what your describing because if you go back over the decade probably further the mentioned is a very rare occurrence.

Ryan isnt declining he just had a rough year adjusting to a new OC is all and his play was a little off in areas much like 2015.

Again who are you suggesting that is available that could pick up the offense and replace Ryan?

If the Falcons were stupid enough to do what your suggesting and it doesn't work where does that leave the team and you of course have to forget about instant gratification because the new guy isn't winning year 1 so that's possibly another year or 3 till you see anything.

Ryan has proven over his whole career he can win at all levels bar finishing the job again the question becomes who do you go with as a replacement and who has played that is available at Ryan's level for the last 5 seasons and is a proven winner.

I no longer expect instant gratification, that's my hole point. What would be Matts trade value right now ? Maybe 2 ones and a future pic. I would get it while the getting is good. If Matt has a down year again, his value will drop like a rock.  Not only would the picks be nice, but would also free up some cap money. Of course I don't know what we could get for Matt, it's just a guess.  I did mention that I didn't necessarily agree with the Op's pick, but the idea is there.

One more thing to keep in mind (God forbid ) that Matt gets hurt. He has been incredibly durable to this point. That could change the first minute of the first game. I would like to see a QB that can carry the load in Matt's absents. Any thoughts ? Without some sort of a trade, I can't think of a single one.

 

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2 minutes ago, caver50 said:

I no longer expect instant gratification, that's my hole point. What would be Matts trade value right now ? Maybe 2 ones and a future pic. I would get it while the getting is good. If Matt has a down year again, his value will drop like a rock.  Not only would the picks be nice, but would also free up some cap money. Of course I don't know what we could get for Matt, it's just a guess.  I did mention that I didn't necessarily agree with the Op's pick, but the idea is there.

One more thing to keep in mind (God forbid ) that Matt gets hurt. He has been incredibly durable to this point. That could change the first minute of the first game. I would like to see a QB that can carry the load in Matt's absents. Any thoughts ? Without some sort of a trade, I can't think of a single one.

 

I've got non if MR2 got hurt no I haven't but off season talk is they were looking at Seimian as a #2 for a draft trade but off the bat non.

I personally think the whole trade conversation is null and void the owner is sold on Ryan and regardless he's going no where in a hurry.

Trade value you'd get 1st round picks for sure but as above your pushing yourself out of the SB window if you were to trade Ryan at this point unless you could get a straight swap for someone as expirenced or good.

Julios career gone also.

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13 minutes ago, caver50 said:

I no longer expect instant gratification, that's my hole point. What would be Matts trade value right now ? Maybe 2 ones and a future pic. I would get it while the getting is good. If Matt has a down year again, his value will drop like a rock.  Not only would the picks be nice, but would also free up some cap money. Of course I don't know what we could get for Matt, it's just a guess.  I did mention that I didn't necessarily agree with the Op's pick, but the idea is there.

One more thing to keep in mind (God forbid ) that Matt gets hurt. He has been incredibly durable to this point. That could change the first minute of the first game. I would like to see a QB that can carry the load in Matt's absents. Any thoughts ? Without some sort of a trade, I can't think of a single one.

 

If Matt Ryan has such diminising returns and will never win the Super Bowl and blah, blah, blah then who the heIl is going to give up 2 1st round picks to get him?

Also, Matt Ryan did not have a "down year" in 2017. Matt Ryan was still very good in 2017. Did you people even watch the games or just look at the stats?

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On 2/11/2018 at 2:20 PM, dawgsjw said:

Tyrod is better than what people give him credit for, plus that he has no weapons outside of McCoy in BUF.  I don't like this idea, but the main point of spending that much money on a qb is valid.  If there is a legit option for much cheaper then I would be down to hear it, but I'm not sure there is. 

And this is the crux of the matter as 2 things:

We don't know how much Matt is gonna be paid on average YET; nor how much it will hit the cap the first couple years if the structure is team friendly.

Also, ALL starting QBs will likely be paid more per year. So, have you actually calculated net savings? What's Tyrod's next contract on the cap? $15-$20mil at this rate? So, with $10mil potentially in cap space difference so you really think a single grade A UFA being here instead of Matt for Tyrod gets you anywhere?

The only way it works in the SHORT TERM is if you get like someone else said: 3 first round picks in a draft that buys you years of cheap play (if they all pan out) + hope it's enough to win relying on D taking another step forward.

For me, the zone blocking and running we do isn't elite compared to say the Jags or Steelers or Dallas when they have Elliot. You'd need a run game like that to take pressure off QB. People respect Matt and our pass game a bit more than Tyrod; to put it nicely. Not even close.

Our OL was made to look better by Ryan quite a bit this year actually. Levitre is our best interior pass blocker and he goes down. We already had an inconsistent first year out of Wes at RG barely making it by vs the competition level. Couple those with the injuries to RBs and a dude off the street playing FB? Tyrod wouldn't have taken us anywhere further and in fact we'd likely not have made the playoffs. Matt kept us in many games this year despite majority of his turnovers being directly his receivers fault. He isn't Russell Wilson.

Same red zone scoring problems by a supposed ball control offense but one that lacks red zone RUSHING so then automatically you need Tyrod to win games for you with his arm. Again, not Russell Wilson.

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" The man does NOT throw Interceptions and averages over five yards per carry as a rusher.  Its a great suggestion: "

 

He doesn't throw interceptions because he makes his #1 read and unless he is open by 8 yards, he tucks tail and runs.

He averages over 5 yards per carry because he makes his #1 read and unless he is open by 8 yards, he tucks tail and runs.

He doesn't throw interceptions because the 5 times a game the above doesn't happen and he throws to a guy not open by 8 yards, he sails the ball 8 yards over his head.

He has a lifetime QB rating of 56.4. Matt Ryan is 93.4

I will give him that he is consistent.... his yards per pass attempt and his yards per rush attempt are roughly equal... which is another reason why he doesn't throw interceptions. IN 2017 the Bills were tied for 29th in yards per pass attempt. The average distance his passes travel is about 10 feet... the rest of his YPA comes from YAC.

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Trade Matt Ryan.....for Tyrod Taylor.....who was benched in Buffalo for inconsistent play.  Yeah - makes sense.  

 

Issue with this generation of fans is they are too Madden based.   Just because Taylor has had some decent stats here or there - how many games has he WON?  Man oh man - this is a joke.

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Vick is never coming back. Just let it go dude. We don't need someone like him. Mobile qbs who cannot throw the ball are not a thing. You have to let that dream die. You have had way too long to get over him. I really dont understand some of our fans. 

 

Matt Ryan is the best at the position we have ever had. Just accept it. 

Edited by j105
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5 hours ago, caver50 said:

Good example >>> The Eagles with Foles. No one expected that, but the Eagles put a good team in front of Foles. So you take whats considered at the time an average QB and won the SB. Did Foles win it or did the team win it ? You give a QB enough time to pass and he will complete the pass, most any QB. Something Ryan never seems to have much of.

Ryan will have to prove his self this year. If he doesn't improve his accuracy this year, I would say he is on the downhill slide. Then what ? Realistically Ryan will probably be with us long term, we'll see.

I watched us ride or die with every player we've ever had, it gets old and I have serious doubts that Ryan can win the big dance.

With this current roster, there is not a better QB in the world that will get us a super bowl faster than Ryan could. This team is built around his strengths. Trading him instantly sets the team back a minimum of 3 years and possibly more. You can’t plug in a new player onto a team and think instant success. That’s not how football works. 

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On 2/11/2018 at 2:30 PM, kiwifalcon said:

It's not intelligent discussion though really lol that's what people are on you .The hardest thing in this league is to have a proven franchise QB and you want to trade ours in his prime for a guy that never was anything and probably will never be anything.

Thats the issue there's no intelligent discussion being presented here lol.

Theres some guy whose gone out on a whim bring something to the table and pretending to sell it as an intelligent discussion lol.

Cmon Man.

Maybe so, but the name-calling on here is getting almost like it's Trump posting.

Not your post, but some of the others seem to have lost the ability to disagree and still remain civil.

If the man vexes them so much that they can't rebut the substance of the post--as some have, then just move along.

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5 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

If Matt Ryan has such diminising returns and will never win the Super Bowl and blah, blah, blah then who the heIl is going to give up 2 1st round picks to get him?

Also, Matt Ryan did not have a "down year" in 2017. Matt Ryan was still very good in 2017. Did you people even watch the games or just look at the stats?

At this moment he would be worth that. I disagree on his down year, He was off target more than I remember. The Browns are looking for a QB.

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49 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

With this current roster, there is not a better QB in the world that will get us a super bowl faster than Ryan could. This team is built around his strengths. Trading him instantly sets the team back a minimum of 3 years and possibly more. You can’t plug in a new player onto a team and think instant success. That’s not how football works. 

I don't know... the Eagles did it.

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1 minute ago, caver50 said:

At this moment he would be worth that. I disagree on his down year, He was off target more than I remember. The Browns are looking for a QB.

I hate PFF but they rated Matt Ryan as the #2 QB in 2017 and ESPN's Total QBR ranked Matt Ryan as 5th best QB in 2017. I'd love to see what his numbers would have been had the Falcons not led the NFL in dropped passes. Thankfully PFF and Total QBR doesn't blame the QB for dropped passes. Even with all the dropped passes he still completed 64.7% of his passes in 2017. Without the dropped passes he would have at least had 66% which would have been right in line with his 67.6% number from 2012-2016 combined.

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