Monoxide

The Trump Presidency (take 2)

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1 hour ago, Jpowers said:

I'm seriously concerned for those of you who know this much about English politics. 

 

Keeping up with American politics is depressing enough but y'all are like **** yeah..... Let me get some more of this from another country that may even be in a weirder place than us. 

 

I feel like if I actually understood Brexit and English politics better I'd just end up more depressed. 

us and british politics are the only two i keep up with daily

and honestly the british labour party is probably one of the most hopeful political movements of the last couple of years, regardless of it's infighting. the dynamic is different from the democratic party - the leadership was directly elected by a large influx of young left-wing members - and have been struggling against center and center-left members of parliament within their own party, which are overrepresented relative to their membership and the labour electorate. 

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16 minutes ago, achilles return said:

us and british politics are the only two i keep up with daily

and honestly the british labour party is probably one of the most hopeful political movements of the last couple of years, regardless of it's infighting. the dynamic is different from the democratic party - the leadership was directly elected by a large influx of young left-wing members - and have been struggling against center and center-left members of parliament within their own party, which are overrepresented relative to their membership and the labour electorate. 

9

Not when it comes to a People's Vote. 

Quote

3. Labour could suffer badly if it ends up facilitating Brexit

Labour is seeking an early general election. YouGov asked people how they would vote if Labour, along with the Conservatives, supported going ahead with Brexit. Labour slumps to third place, with 22%, behind the Liberal Democrats, who would jump to 26%. Those who voted Labour last year and remain the year before say they are more likely to switch to the Liberal Democrats (49%) than stay with Labour (41%). The survey suggests no compensating boost among those who voted leave in the referendum. In fact, it would be the Conservatives who would benefit if both main parties backed Brexit. Their support among leave voters would rise from 62% to 69%. Labour support among leave voters would slip from 21% to 19%.

Moreover, most Labour leave voters who take sides back a people’s vote, by 56-44%. Again, the evidence suggests little downside to Labour backing a people’s vote. Indeed, among Labour supporters generally, such a vote is massively popular, with 77% in favour and just 23% against. A further challenge for Jeremy Corbyn is to persuade voters that he could get a better Brexit deal if he were prime minister. This claim is rejected by 68%-11% of voters generally, by 47%-30% of Labour voters, and – perhaps most ominously – by 52-23% of Labour leave voters.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/polls-stay-eu-yougov-brexit-peoples-vote

6

This is why Corbyn's polling has been slumping. He is sticking with the BS that a Norway+ model could work instead of backing a people's vote like labour voters want. 

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1 hour ago, JayOzOne said:

Neither do most americans know s*** from shinola.

I found out that shinola is a luxury store that sells things like watches and leather bags.  The person I learned this from, who had a shinola bag, had never hear of the phrase “you don’t know s*** from shinola”.  

Effing young people.

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the people’s vote is nothing but pure cowardice from politicians and remainers that believe another referendum will save them.

nothing will save them.

this is hellworld.

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2 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

I found out that shinola is a luxury store that sells things like watches and leather bags.  The person I learned this from, who had a shinola bag, had never hear of the phrase “you don’t know s*** from shinola”.  

Effing young people.

Well, now I definitely know **** from shinola. Cross one off of the bucket list.

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like what exactly is the contingency plan there if leave wins again? may’s plan? no deal? ignore the results of both referendums and stay anyways?

corbyn has been forced to walk a very fine line in a country where brexit support cut across partisan lines. it’s really weird to watch you defend may’s mess as a “soft brexit” and buy into the dumb smears for the left’s best chance at fighting neoliberalism in years.

 

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5 minutes ago, achilles return said:

yeah and the initial polls before the 2017 snap election had labour like 25 points behind the tories.

consider me fairly skeptical!

 

 

Polls also showed Labour's climb. Let's not act like Trump supports and pretend polls are fake news. Yougov was one of the most accurate polls on the snap election. 

Quote

 

3 minutes ago, achilles return said:

the people’s vote is nothing but pure cowardice from politicians and remainers that believe another referendum will save them.

nothing will save them.

this is hellworld.

May accepting her fate would save them. Prior to March 29, May can just revoke Article 50. You are correct about the cowardice, but it is also cowardice to pretend that a Norway+ model is the future or that you can negotiate a better brexit deal. Corbyn should come out and say brexit was a bad idea and cancel the whole thing. 

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1 minute ago, achilles return said:

like what exactly is the contingency plan there if leave wins again? may’s plan? no deal? ignore the results of both referendums and stay anyways?

corbyn has been forced to walk a very fine line in a country where brexit support cut across partisan lines. it’s really weird to watch you defend may’s mess as a “soft brexit” and buy into the dumb smears for the left’s best chance at fighting neoliberalism in years.

3

People's vote would have 3 choices and be rank choice. If May's deal wins, then go forward with that. If no deal leave or remain win, then go forward with that. But at least voters would be voting on a proposal and not a slogan/idea. 

Polling shows his fence sitting is costing the party support. There are various forms of Soft Brexit. May's withdrawal deal is a soft brexit because it keeps the UK in the single market and customs union. 

Left's best chance is to stand up and get off the fence about Brexit. I understand wanting to get back into power and support the left doing so, but you are not going to do that at this time without going bold and backing remain. 

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1 minute ago, GEORGIAfan said:

Polls also showed Labour's climb. Let's not act like Trump supports and pretend polls are fake news. Yougov was one of the most accurate polls on the snap election. 

 

May accepting her fate would save them. Prior to March 29, May can just revoke Article 50. You are correct about the cowardice, but it is also cowardice to pretend that a Norway+ model is the future or that you can negotiate a better brexit deal. Corbyn should come out and say brexit was a bad idea and cancel the whole thing. 

my point is that the media fairness rules around elections make random polls outside the context of an upcoming election a lot less Illuminating. i’m not really concerned about a random poll from december 2018 if we aren’t looking at another general election any time soon.

what do you think happens if no-deal brexit happens and the tories are caught holding the bag? i’m guessing the polls will look a bit different.

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Just now, achilles return said:

my point is that the media fairness rules around elections make random polls outside the context of an upcoming election a lot less Illuminating. i’m not really concerned about a random poll from december 2018 if we aren’t looking at another general election any time soon.

what do you think happens if no-deal brexit happens and the tories are caught holding the bag? i’m guessing the polls will look a bit different.

Lib Dems become a major party. :lol:

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Just now, GEORGIAfan said:

People's vote would have 3 choices and be rank choice. If May's deal wins, then go forward with that. If no deal leave or remain win, then go forward with that. But at least voters would be voting on a proposal and not a slogan/idea. 

Polling shows his fence sitting is costing the party support. There are various forms of Soft Brexit. May's withdrawal deal is a soft brexit because it keeps the UK in the single market and customs union. 

Left's best chance is to stand up and get off the fence about Brexit. I understand wanting to get back into power and support the left doing so, but you are not going to do that at this time without going bold and backing remain. 

may and the conversative party is never going to allow a “people’s vote” and even if she did, she’d never allow remain on the ballot.

what corbyn backs or doesn’t back literally doesn’t matter at all. 

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like this stuff is just so transparent. a couple months or so ago everyone was mad at corbyn for not bringing a vote of no confidence. when he did last month it literally didn’t matter at all. it lost, as everyone predicted. it’s just dumb anti-corbyn posturing.

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1 hour ago, GEORGIAfan said:

Not when it comes to a People's Vote. 

This is why Corbyn's polling has been slumping. He is sticking with the BS that a Norway+ model could work instead of backing a people's vote like labour voters want. 

 

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"I'll have the Mar a Lago omelet special ' 6 eggs, 1lb of chopped bacon, all covered in bacon grease', got to keep this 6' 2" frame at my usual 235 lbs."

DziLs9CXgAEwJwl-768x1024.jpg

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New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio criticizes Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez over her opposition to the Amazon deal.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez raised eyebrows after comparing President Trump’s border wall plans to the Berlin Wall separating communist Germany from the free world.

The New York Democrat made her remarks during a livestream for supporters on Friday, where she spoke out about the scrutiny she received ever since she won the election last year and dethroned top Democrat Joe Crowley.

No matter how you feel about the wall, I think it’s a moral abomination,” Ocasio-Cortez said on the issue of the border wall that Trump has been pushing for since getting into office.

“I think it’s like the Berlin Wall. I think it’s like any other wall designed to separate human beings and block out people who are running away from the humanitarian disasters. I just think it’s wrong,” she added.

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10 hours ago, GEORGIAfan said:

:lol:. You fell for that. :lol:

No, it was the Dems and some GOP who were raising Cain about pulling out even though they would actually be for it. 

But anti-Trump 24/7 for ze party though.

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