Monoxide

The Trump Presidency (take 2)

123,673 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, Billy Ocean said:

 

 

I remember WFW used to have catchphrase taglines. I guess it's true that sometimes we become what we hate. 

But what we hate is sometimes what we need to become when those who are uninformed become informed...

@big_dog

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3 minutes ago, Billy Ocean said:

 

 

Kitten cannon runs the Walter account.  He's a **** good pedal steel and guitar player.

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8 minutes ago, achilles return said:

i remember when the most qualified presidential candidate in american history lost to the dumbest 

I wish Moses hadn't accidentally deleted the original 2016 election cycle thread so that I could do a search for how many times the phrase "adult in the room" appeared in that topic.

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like isn't the first concern, idk, actually winning the election? who cares about hickenlooper's experience, that dude isn't going to inspire a coalition capable of beating trump. he sucks.

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11 minutes ago, achilles return said:

i remember when the most qualified presidential candidate in american history lost to the dumbest 

She lost because she was a leftist radical or something.

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3 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

She lost because she was a leftist radical or something.

She lost because she was lazy and her yes women/men told her she had a 12 point lead going into the final weeks so don't worry about the rust belt...Mmm Hmm.

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7 minutes ago, achilles return said:

like isn't the first concern, idk, actually winning the election? who cares about hickenlooper's experience, that dude isn't going to inspire a coalition capable of beating trump. he sucks.

Winning might be the first concern, but governing is a very very close second. And why wouldn’t Hickenlooper be able to beat Trump?  What is it about him that will turn off voters?  

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If Dems win with a candidate that’s not qualified nor ready to govern, then they’re going to be in the same situation Reps have been in for the last few years...lots of bold promises that are either impossible to enact and/or they don’t have the knowledge of how government works to fulfill those promises.

 

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1 minute ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Winning might be the first concern, but governing is a very very close second. And why wouldn’t Hickenlooper be able to beat Trump?  What is it about him that will turn off voters?  

more of the same centrist garbage that thinks opposing trump is somehow a substitute for a policy platform that can actually inspire people

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3 minutes ago, achilles return said:

more of the same centrist garbage that thinks opposing trump is somehow a substitute for a policy platform that can actually inspire people

“Centrist garbage”...you mean policies that might actually get enacted instead of pie in the sky promises?

Yeah, Hickenlooper opposed the single payer referendum in Colorado.  Also, 80% of voters in Colorado opposed that referendum...while simultaneously a majority of those same voters supported Hillary Clinton.  

Perhaps Hickenlooper knows more about the voters than the progressive wing?  Maybe that “centrist garbage” is actually effective policy that can get support from the public?

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SCOTUS won’t take up the DACA challenge, meaning that Dreamers will keep their protections while the case goes through the courts.  

Obviously great news for Dreamers.  

But it also has implications for the shutdown...now Trump is offering protection for people who currently have protections.  So he’s offering nothing.

mdrake34 likes this

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18 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Yeah, those decades of shady behavior and scandals had nothing to do with it.  :rolleyes:

As I recall, that was our argument but then you posted that graph that showed that Trump was the most moderate candidate and then argued that, actually, it was because Clinton was just way too far to the left.

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Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

As I recall, that was our argument but then you posted that graph that showed that Trump was the most moderate candidate and then argued that, actually, it was because Clinton was just way too far to the left.

My memory was that I was arguing that Clinton had moved left on several issues because of Sanders and that it hurt her in the election.  That doesn’t mean it was the one singular factor.  There were many.

She was a bad candidate regardless of ideological position and I said that throughout the election.

Also, Trump was the more moderate GOP candidate in the race.  He was very extreme on a few policies (immigration, for example) but was to the left of the other Reps broadly speaking.

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7 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

“Centrist garbage”...you mean policies that might actually get enacted instead of pie in the sky promises?

Yeah, Hickenlooper opposed the single payer referendum in Colorado.  Also, 80% of voters in Colorado opposed that referendum...while simultaneously a majority of those same voters supported Hillary Clinton.  

Perhaps Hickenlooper knows more about the voters than the progressive wing?  Maybe that “centrist garbage” is actually effective policy that can get support from the public?

What's a centrist policy?

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Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

What's a centrist policy?

Y’all are the ones who keep using it.  Y’all tell me.

I don’t think it’s about centrism.  It’s about pragmatism.  

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Just now, Leon Troutsky said:

Y’all are the ones who keep using it.  Y’all tell me.

I don’t think it’s about centrism.  It’s about pragmatism.  

You keep arguing that people crave moderate policies and that they reward pragmatism but you never answer the question of what either is.

Is Obamacare moderate and pragmatic? What is an example of what you are talking about?

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Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

You keep arguing that people crave moderate policies and that they reward pragmatism but you never answer the question of what either is.

Is Obamacare moderate and pragmatic? What is an example of what you are talking about?

If you’re talking about the public at large, then yeah Obamacare was a moderate or centrist policy.  Obama’s low popularity at the time didn’t help the messaging and undermined its popularity.  But the policy itself was fairly popular when you poll individual items/parts of the law.

A moderate policy on gun control, for example, would include background checks for all purchases, bump stock ban, and so forth.  

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Also, I offered a messaging for Medicare for All that I think would frame it as a centrist, even partly conservative, policy measure.

Y’all laughed at the notion that messaging and framing it was important.  

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Just now, Leon Troutsky said:

If you’re talking about the public at large, then yeah Obamacare was a moderate or centrist policy.  Obama’s low popularity at the time didn’t help the messaging and undermined its popularity.  But the policy itself was fairly popular when you poll individual items/parts of the law.

A moderate policy on gun control, for example, would include background checks for all purchases, bump stock ban, and so forth.  

If the public craves these things then why did they punish the Democrats for passing Obamacare and don't punish Republicans for opposing moderate gun control policies? Something is not adding up with how you're trying to frame this.

1 minute ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Also, I offered a messaging for Medicare for All that I think would frame it as a centrist, even partly conservative, policy measure.

Y’all laughed at the notion that messaging and framing it was important.  

As I recall, whenever someone posted how M4A polls you just said that it wouldn't last and that it'd be a waste of time.

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