Monoxide

The Trump Presidency (take 2)

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Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

You keep arguing that people crave moderate policies and that they reward pragmatism but you never answer the question of what either is.

Is Obamacare moderate and pragmatic? What is an example of what you are talking about?

If you’re talking about the public at large, then yeah Obamacare was a moderate or centrist policy.  Obama’s low popularity at the time didn’t help the messaging and undermined its popularity.  But the policy itself was fairly popular when you poll individual items/parts of the law.

A moderate policy on gun control, for example, would include background checks for all purchases, bump stock ban, and so forth.  

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Also, I offered a messaging for Medicare for All that I think would frame it as a centrist, even partly conservative, policy measure.

Y’all laughed at the notion that messaging and framing it was important.  

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Just now, Leon Troutsky said:

If you’re talking about the public at large, then yeah Obamacare was a moderate or centrist policy.  Obama’s low popularity at the time didn’t help the messaging and undermined its popularity.  But the policy itself was fairly popular when you poll individual items/parts of the law.

A moderate policy on gun control, for example, would include background checks for all purchases, bump stock ban, and so forth.  

If the public craves these things then why did they punish the Democrats for passing Obamacare and don't punish Republicans for opposing moderate gun control policies? Something is not adding up with how you're trying to frame this.

1 minute ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Also, I offered a messaging for Medicare for All that I think would frame it as a centrist, even partly conservative, policy measure.

Y’all laughed at the notion that messaging and framing it was important.  

As I recall, whenever someone posted how M4A polls you just said that it wouldn't last and that it'd be a waste of time.

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Twelve year old girl is practicing her “the world will end in eleven years if we don’t address climate change now!” Speech for the 2040 election cycle. 

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2 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

If the public craves these things then why did they punish the Democrats for passing Obamacare and don't punish Republicans for opposing moderate gun control policies? Something is not adding up with how you're trying to frame this.

As I recall, whenever someone posted how M4A polls you just said that it wouldn't last and that it'd be a waste of time.

Because gun control is one of many issues that people care about and it often isn’t the most important to them.  And voters didn’t punish Dems only for Obamacare.  The 2010 losses were mostly about the economy, and also about Obamacare, and also about having a check on Dems in office.  It’s not all one thing or another thing.  

You asked what a centrist/moderate policy looks like.  I explained that.  

And I know that you like to ignore the survey evidence showing that most Americans are in the middle.  But the evidence remains undisputed.  Sorry.

Regarding M4A and messaging, I was wrong...we were talking about court packing and messaging.  I confused it with M4A.  

I know that in the past I have tried to offer a framing of M4A that would appeal to moderates and even some Republicans, but I can’t remember if I did it here or not.  There is a very solid fiscal responsibility argument to be made about M4A — basically, we spend far more of our GDP on health care than any other advanced industrial democracy in the world, and we get worse results.  So while yes, taxes would go up somewhat to pay for it, the individual costs to American citizens would be lower because we don’t have 3-4 layers of corporate bureaucracy siphoning profits at each layer.  It would effectively cut out the middle men and would (finally) address the cost of services/care.  That’s a very brief summary of it, but maybe it gives you the idea.

Colorado is a very good lesson for people who want M4A.  It shows what happens when you don’t have a message and don’t have a carefully crafted policy that can be explained to voters.  It only got 21% support...in Colorado...on the same ballot that Clinton won.  So the “centrist garbage” performed over 25% better in Colorado than did single payer.

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4 minutes ago, Flip Flop said:

Twelve year old girl is practicing her “the world will end in eleven years if we don’t address climate change now!” Speech for the 2040 election cycle. 

 

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ya'll... billionaires are just power addicts and we need to help them break the addiction. It's in their own best interest that we redistribute their wealth and power, for their own good and society's.

Lazy Boner likes this

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The hatred for the shutdown rock's on

Not long after rapper Cardi B took to social media and called out Donald Trump to end the government shutdown, the pop icon, Lady Gaga, sent out her own message of protest on Saturday night, during a concert in Las Vegas. Gaga stopped in the middle of her song “Million Reasons”  to blast Trump for his self-proclaimed shutdown that has financially debilitated hundreds of thousands of federal workers.

“If the ******* president of the United States could please put our government back … there are people who live paycheck to paycheck and need their money!”

Gaga didn’t stop there. The Star is Born award-winning singer, songwriter and actress had some words for VP Mike Pence as well. “To Mike Pence, who thinks that it’s okay that his wife works at a school that bans LGBTQ, you’re wrong. You’re the worst representation of what it means to be a Christian. I am a Christian woman, and what I do know about Christianity is that we bear no prejudice and everybody is welcome. So you can take all that disgrace, Mr. Pence, and look yourself in the mirror and you’ll find it right there.”

 

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11 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Because gun control is one of many issues that people care about and it often isn’t the most important to them.  And voters didn’t punish Dems only for Obamacare.  The 2010 losses were mostly about the economy, and also about Obamacare, and also about having a check on Dems in office.  It’s not all one thing or another thing.  

You asked what a centrist/moderate policy looks like.  I explained that.  

And I know that you like to ignore the survey evidence showing that most Americans are in the middle.  But the evidence remains undisputed.  Sorry.

Regarding M4A and messaging, I was wrong...we were talking about court packing and messaging.  I confused it with M4A.  

I know that in the past I have tried to offer a framing of M4A that would appeal to moderates and even some Republicans, but I can’t remember if I did it here or not.  There is a very solid fiscal responsibility argument to be made about M4A — basically, we spend far more of our GDP on health care than any other advanced industrial democracy in the world, and we get worse results.  So while yes, taxes would go up somewhat to pay for it, the individual costs to American citizens would be lower because we don’t have 3-4 layers of corporate bureaucracy siphoning profits at each layer.  It would effectively cut out the middle men and would (finally) address the cost of services/care.  That’s a very brief summary of it, but maybe it gives you the idea.

Colorado is a very good lesson for people who want M4A.  It shows what happens when you don’t have a message and don’t have a carefully crafted policy that can be explained to voters.  It only got 21% support...in Colorado...on the same ballot that Clinton won.  So the “centrist garbage” performed over 25% better in Colorado than did single payer.

So people don't actually care about how moderate the laws a government passes? They mostly care about what affects them directly?

Those arguments have been made for years by M4A advocates, especially after they picked apart Mercatus' study about the costs. However, it is doubtful that will be what wins people over. They're fine for countering the ******** narratives from the right and those in the center who refuse to budge on the matter, but those are not the arguments that are going to resonate with the average person at the end of the day. If it was then people would love Obamacare for being budget neutral.

Instead, you need to keep hammering home how the present privatized system has failed and caused misery for people and how a public system will remove those problems, from no more unaffordable premiums to no longer having to worry about medical bankruptcy. People care about what affects them directly. The rest is window dressing.

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8 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

 

We also need to get our ***** up to the arctic circle before the Ruskies and Chinese are building fake islands on top of ice caps

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Just now, ♒Sn4tteRBoxXeR♒ said:

We also need to get our ***** up to the arctic circle before the Ruskies and Chinese are building fake islands on top of ice caps

c38.jpg

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Thank God and Greyhound she's gone :slick: She never tells the truth anyway so good riddance beeatch.:tiphat:

Trump: I've told Sarah Sanders "not to bother" with press briefings

President Trump said in a Tuesday tweet that he's directed White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders "not to bother" with press briefings because "certain members of the press" cover her "rudely" and "inaccurately."

"The reason Sarah Sanders does not go to the "podium" much anymore is that the press covers her so rudely & inaccurately, in particular certain members of the press. I told her not to bother, the word gets out anyway! Most will never cover us fairly & hence, the term, Fake News!"

The big picture: The current 35-day streak without a press briefing from the White House podium is the longest on record since the tradition started during President Bill Clinton's administration, according to ABC News' Alex Mallin.

 

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11 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

Can't wait to hear the outrage from the locker room talk folks over her naughty word.

It's probably a good guess to think that stupid rep who - like you - have/will not read the article, will flame her for words she didn't actually say...

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7 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

So people don't actually care about how moderate the laws a government passes? They mostly care about what affects them directly?

Those arguments have been made for years by M4A advocates, especially after they picked apart Mercatus' study about the costs. However, it is doubtful that will be what wins people over. They're fine for countering the ******** narratives from the right and those in the center who refuse to budge on the matter, but those are not the arguments that are going to resonate with the average person at the end of the day. If it was then people would love Obamacare for being budget neutral.

Instead, you need to keep hammering home how the present privatized system has failed and caused misery for people and how a public system will remove those problems, from no more unaffordable premiums to no longer having to worry about medical bankruptcy. People care about what affects them directly. The rest is window dressing.

Then why did it fail in Colorado and Vermont?  

Because supporters were so focused on the slogan than explaining the substance of the policy to people.  When the rhetoric was on the verge of becoming policy, the public turned against it...dramatically.  That’s my point about M4A polls right now.  You can’t just focus on the rah rah stuff.  It’s going to get demolished when it comes time to enact it as an actual law/policy if you haven’t explained it in a way that will appeal to moderates/non-partisans and even leaning Republicans.

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1 hour ago, mdrake34 said:

 

King Don.....but Hillary participated in a voluntary prison work program in the ‘80’s.  

I’m sure Garland and a Clinton appointee would have rules the same as Gorsitch and Cavenaugh....

 

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