Hold off on Ryan’s extension

[Vandy]

16 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Ryan has been a borderline 10-15 QB for his career. He was elite in 2016, so obviously I am counting that. Past 5 years he been near the top 10. He only had 2 years being top 5.

Borderline 10-15 my azz...

and Who other than Brady/Rodgers/Brees has been more consistent QB than Ryan has been over past 5 season’s overall? And yes, I’m even including 2013-14 when no QB had a worse OL

do your homework (instead of shooting from your hip) and get back with me. I think you might become‘enlightened.

[kiwifalcon]

10 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Borderline 10-15 my azz...

and Who other than Brady/Rodgers/Brees has been more consistent QB than Ryan has been over past 5 season’s overall? And yes, I’m even including 2013-14 when no QB had a worse OL

do your homework and get back with me. I think you might be ‘enlightened’

C'mon Vandy you know what it is with the SB or bust crowd just like the idea not to pay MR2 please.Thats all they've got the fact that our guy hasn't done the mentioned.Joe Flacco did it so he's deserving but where's he been since lol.

Thats what I don't get about our fanbase we draft him we develop him he plays well near the top of the tree what's next we don't pay him that's how alot of our fans think.Im like wow.

[HASHBROWN3]

Welp, that’ll about wrap this up.

Butt face trolls repeat same agenda driven foolishness ad nauseam, get proven wrong repeatedly by much smarter people  & yet dumb & dumber continue to agitate anyways.

So darn weird how it’s like 50 to 2 in favor of MR right now.  

Some people here seem desperate as they lose over & over & over again.  

Trolls not doing well

at all.

 

[Ergo Proxy]

I think we should hold off on extending the trolls instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 pretends not to be one 

 

[Vandy]

26 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

C'mon Vandy you know what it is with the SB or bust crowd just like the idea not to pay MR2 please.Thats all they've got the fact that our guy hasn't done the mentioned.Joe Flacco did it so he's deserving but where's he been since lol.

Thats what I don't get about our fanbase we draft him we develop him he plays well near the top of the tree what's next we don't pay him that's how alot of our fans think.Im like wow.

 

26 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

Welp, that’ll about wrap this up.

Butt face trolls repeat same agenda driven foolishness ad nauseam, get proven wrong repeatedly by much smarter people  & yet dumb & dumber continue to agitate anyways.

So darn weird how it’s like 50 to 2 in favor of MR right now.  

Some people here seem desperate as they lose over & over & over again.  

Trolls not doing well

at all.

 

Intellectually Dishonest is full of crap.

Not many regs on this board have been more critical of matt than myself (ask @gazoo). I felt in the past matt needed to work on becoming a better leader of this team, and said so many times in the past. 2013-14 was necessary in his progression as a leader to toughened him up IMO, and it elevated him to elite status. The past two years especially he has had that ‘eye of the tiger’ I thought was missing. 

Nobody can objectively argue he’s not now a top 5 QB now, today in 2018. 

[Intellectually Honest]

41 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Borderline 10-15 my azz...

and Who other than Brady/Rodgers/Brees has been more consistent QB than Ryan has been over past 5 season’s overall? And yes, I’m even including 2013-14 when no QB had a worse OL

do your homework (instead of shooting from your hip) and get back with me. I think you might become‘enlightened.

Ryans career average

Rounding the stats to make it simple

65% completion

26 TDs

13 ints

4,200

http://www.nfl.com/player/mattryan/310/profile

So Ryan does well with his completions and yards. He is decent with TDs and ints. That is not elite.

His yearly ranking as per PFF among QBs.

2008 18th
2009 21st
2010 6th
2011 7th
2012 6th
2013 2nd
2014 2nd
2015 5th
2016 17th
2017 10th

Ryan is a yardage machine between the 20s but not so hot getting into the endzone. What is weird is that PFF has his best season ranked 17th. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/passing.htm  <<< Just change the year within the URL to see the other seasons.

Anyway you could have made a better case for him it seems in 2014. He has declined since.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Intellectually Honest

[kiwifalcon]

1 minute ago, Vandy said:

 

Intellectually Dishonest is full of crap.

Not many regs on this board have been more critical of matt than myself (ask @gazoo). I felt in the past matt needed to work on becoming a better leader of this team, and said so many times in the past. 2013-14 was necessary in his progression as a leader to toughened him up IMO, and it elevated him to elite status. 

Nobody can objectively argue he’s not now a top 5 QB now, today in 2018. 

They'll keep trying though lol.

[Vandy]

5 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Ryans career average

Rounding the stats to make it simple

65% completion

26 TDs

13 ints

4,200

So Ryan does well with his completions and yards. He is decent with TDs and ints. That is not elite.

His yearly ranking as per PFF among QBs.

2008 18th
2009 21st
2010 6th
2011 7th
2012 6th
2013 2nd
2014 2nd
2015 5th
2016 17th
2017 10th

Ryan is a yard machine between the 20s but not so hot getting into the endzone. What is weird is that PFF has his best season ranked 17th. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/passing.htm  <<< Just change the year within the URL to see the other seasons.

Anyway you could have made a better case for him it seems in 2014. He has declined since.

Utter bullish!t data-mining.

and lol at using PFF as your ‘resourse’.

Again, answer the question I posed you. Who has been a more consistently better qb than matt Ryan over the past 5 seasons other than Brady/Rodgers/Brees?

[Intellectually Honest]

3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

 

Intellectually Dishonest is full of crap.

Not many regs on this board have been more critical of matt than myself (ask @gazoo). I felt in the past matt needed to work on becoming a better leader of this team, and said so many times in the past. 2013-14 was necessary in his progression as a leader to toughened him up IMO, and it elevated him to elite status. 

Nobody can objectively argue he’s not now a top 5 QB now, today in 2018. 

You seem to agree with me in other threads. In this one you disagree and now I am full of crap. Weird. 

[Intellectually Honest]

2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Utter bullish!t data-mining.

Again, answer the question I posed you. Who has been a more consistent qb than matt Ryan over the past 5 seasons other than Brady/Rodgers/Brees?

Being consistent doesn't necessarily mean elite. Elite is playing at a very high level consistently. Ryan is consistently good, not consistently elite. As I pointed out in the previous post. He has a hard time getting into the end zone, and that is where it counts the most. You know as in TDs. Ryan is a yardage machine no doubt. But it is scoring that counts and compared to Brady, Rodgers, and Brees, that is where he is not at their level.  I wouldn't even say Brees is elite anymore. But he was because he was able to score and not just churn out yards.

Compare Ryan to the 3 i mentioned and he doesn't compare. So Ryan is consistent. He hasn't had any bad years. A couple of mediocre ones, but the most part he has been good. He had a couple of great years and 1 elite year in spite of what PFF says for 2016.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Intellectually Honest

[Ergo Proxy]

1 minute ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Ryans career average

Rounding the stats to make it simple

65% completion

26 TDs

13 ints

4,200

So Ryan does well with his completions and yards. He is decent with TDs and ints. That is not elite.

His yearly ranking as per PFF among QBs.

2008 18th
2009 21st
2010 6th
2011 7th
2012 6th
2013 2nd
2014 2nd
2015 5th
2016 17th
2017 10th

Ryan is a yard machine between the 20s but not so hot getting into the endzone. What is weird is that PFF has his best season ranked 17th. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/passing.htm  <<< Just change the year within the URL to see the other seasons.

Anyway you could have made a better case for him it seems in 2014. He has declined since.

You literally posted 2 data sources that conflict with each other. On the one hand raw stats are a good starting point while PFF proves it itself is disproportionate to raw stats.

Try to think about how Atlanta has fed the RBs usually in the red zone and now pinpoint how lacking a red zone TE/dedicated guy while losing productivity on the ground this past season along yet 2017 has Matt as the 2nd best QB with adjusted means that his raw 2017 numbers conflict with more objective ways to measure his own play. Elite is what they reveal.

He has enough of the raw stats to suggest he is elite. Let me ask you what was Brady's raw stats on average from 2001-2006 before his breakout TD year when Moss got there? (McDaniels?)

Hint: New England put Tom in a position to win consistently for the start of his career to the tune of 3 SBs. By the time he needed stats to demonstrate a new metric of being elite or not; he finally had breakthrough years.

Look, Matt isn't a runner with an arm like Wilson or Rodgers. Matt is indeed more like a Brady; they usually must stay in the pocket than throw on the run.

 

[HASHBROWN3]

10 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Ryans career average

Rounding the stats to make it simple

65% completion

26 TDs

13 ints

4,200

http://www.nfl.com/player/mattryan/310/profile

So Ryan does well with his completions and yards. He is decent with TDs and ints. That is not elite.

His yearly ranking as per PFF among QBs.

2008 18th
2009 21st
2010 6th
2011 7th
2012 6th
2013 2nd
2014 2nd
2015 5th
2016 17th
2017 10th

Ryan is a yardage machine between the 20s but not so hot getting into the endzone. What is weird is that PFF has his best season ranked 17th. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/passing.htm  <<< Just change the year within the URL to see the other seasons.

Anyway you could have made a better case for him it seems in 2014. He has declined since.

Blather.  Nothing you say anymore that I can take seriously bro.  Seek counseling for your MR hatred. He lives inside your head and tortures you by his very existence.  Epic fail.

[Vandy]

1 minute ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Being consistent doesn't nessasarily mean elite. Elite is playing at a very high level. Ryan is consistently good, not consistently elite. As I pointed out in the previous post. He has a hard time getting into the end zone, and that is where it counts the most. You know as in TDs. Ryan is a yardage machine no doubt. But it is scoring that counts.

Answer the question. If top 5 is elite....Who other than Brady/Rodgers/Brees have been consistently better than Ryan over past 5 seasons?

 

[kiwifalcon]

5 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

You seem to agree with me in other threads. In this one you disagree and now I am full of crap. Weird. 

Jimmy G just got 5 years 137 mill 74 guaranteed where are you on that number vs what Ryan's going to get and he's getting that off starting 8 games lol.

[Goober Pyle]

 

[coastiemike]

7 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Being consistent doesn't nessasarily mean elite. Elite is playing at a very high level. Ryan is consistently good, not consistently elite. As I pointed out in the previous post. He has a hard time getting into the end zone, and that is where it counts the most. You know as in TDs. Ryan is a yardage machine no doubt. But it is scoring that counts.

#18 in NFL History in TDs thrown and will move to #15 all time, just behind Unitas if he stays healthy this year.  He will pass Montana this year btw. Yet, has a hard time ;-/

[coastiemike]

1 minute ago, Goober Pyle said:

 

That’s going to mess up their agenda.  Stop with those facts.

[Intellectually Honest]

5 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

You literally posted 2 data sources that conflict with each other. On the one hand raw stats are a good starting point while PFF proves it itself is disproportionate to raw stats.

Try to think about how Atlanta has fed the RBs usually in the red zone and now pinpoint how lacking a red zone TE/dedicated guy while losing productivity on the ground this past season along yet 2017 has Matt as the 2nd best QB with adjusted means that his raw 2017 numbers conflict with more objective ways to measure his own play. Elite is what they reveal.

He has enough of the raw stats to suggest he is elite. Let me ask you what was Brady's raw stats on average from 2001-2006 before his breakout TD year when Moss got there? (McDaniels?)

Hint: New England put Tom in a position to win consistently for the start of his career to the tune of 3 SBs. By the time he needed stats to demonstrate a new metric of being elite or not; he finally had breakthrough years.

Look, Matt isn't a runner with an arm like Wilson or Rodgers. Matt is indeed more like a Brady; they usually must stay in the pocket than throw on the run.

 

I didn't use 2 data sources that conflicted. NFL.com gives the raw stats. PFF ranked them by whatever formula they are using.

[Ergo Proxy]

9 minutes ago, Goober Pyle said:

 

Clearly Eagles won SB in spite of Wentz. It was a good thing he went down so teams would prepare for Foles that much more to take the pressure off the Philly D and coaches knowing how much more Foles >>> Wentz. This chart is about measuring best to worst; left to right? So that means Ryan is equal to a SB winning QB and therefore = to Foles and therefore > Wentz; clearly closer to GOAT than worst QB in league chart.

EDIT: OOOOHHHHH it's about the top 5 best (reading impediment sorry)

Edited February 8, 2018 by Ergo Proxy

[Ergo Proxy]

2 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

I didn't use 2 data sources that conflicted. NFL.com gives the raw stats. PFF ranked them by whatever formula they are using.

I'm saying your post supports 2 conflicting reasoning points. Raw numbers vs advanced metrics. Was Brady elite before his 2007 season? Just with 3 SBs or raw stats? If only advanced metrics existed in 2001-2006(?)...

[Intellectually Honest]

4 minutes ago, coastiemike said:

#18 in NFL History in TDs thrown and will move to #15 all time, just behind Unitas if he stays healthy this year.  He will pass Montana this year btw. Yet, has a hard time ;-/

That isn't saying much since the rule changes between the time Johnny Unitas played or even Joe Montana. I mean when Johnny U was playing throwing 20 TD was extremely rare. When Montana was playing, it was 30. Now with the rule changes QBs are hitting near 40 with 2 going near 50 or over. The passing yards for an average QB inflated also, along with TD/INT ratio as well completion percentage.

Ryan needs to be ranked with his peers playing around the same time with the same rules that effect the passing game. Do you think Ryan would be passing for 4000 yards and 25 TDs if he was playing in the 60s? GTO with that BS.

[Intellectually Honest]

Just now, Ergo Proxy said:

I'm saying your post supports 2 conflicting reasoning points. Raw numbers vs advanced metrics. Was Brady elite before his 2007 season? Just with 3 SBs or raw stats? If only advanced metrics existed in 2001-2006(?)...

You are imagining things. Neither link "reasoned" anything. There were no arguments from either link. I simply used those links to make MY argument.

[Intellectually Honest]

11 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Answer the question. If top 5 is elite....Who other than Brady/Rodgers/Brees have been consistently better than Ryan over past 5 seasons?

 

I never claimed top 5 is elite. There is no set number for elite. For the most part Brady, Brees and Rodgers were considered the only 3 elite QBs because their level of play was so much better than the QBs below them even if you were the 4th or 5th best QB in the league.

[coastiemike]

7 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

That isn't saying much since the rule changes between the time Johnny Unitas played or even Joe Montana. I mean when Johnny U was playing throwing 20 TD was extremely rare. When Montana was playing, it was 30. Now with the rule changes QBs are hitting near 40 with 2 going near 50 or over. The passing yards for an average QB inflated also, along with TD/INT ratio as well completion percentage.

Ryan needs to be ranked with his peers playing around the same time with the same rules that effect the passing game. Do you think Ryan would be passing for 4000 yards and 25 TDs if he was playing in the 60s? GTO with that BS.

So we are moving the goal posts from he can’t get into the end zone consistently to the NFL has changed?

So, let’s rank him among his peers then. Active QBs currently ahead are Brady, Brees, Rivers, Manning, Roethlisburger, Rogers, and a Palmer.  That puts Ryan at #8.  Notice anything in common with all of those? They’ve all been playing several years longer.  Compare year by year and Ryan moves up to top 3-4 after 10 years.  He also achieved 40,000 career yards faster than any of those seven.  Go ahead and keep hating Ryan and hoping for more Harrington and Leftwich and Hebert years.

[coastiemike]

2 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

I never claimed top 5 is elite. There is no set number for elite. For the most part Brady, Brees and Rodgers were considered the only 3 elite QBs because their level of play was so much better than the QBs below them even if you were the 4th or 5th best QB in the league.

Rogers has three more wins in three extra seasons than Ryan.