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PHALCONABERNATHY

Espn’s Take on how the Falcons lose on the Alex Smith/Kirk cousins trade and contract deal

120 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, Butudontseeme™ said:

Idk if Jacksonville will move on Cousins OR get him. He seems pretty intent on getting as much bread as possible. That being said, if Jacksonville would be in the Super Bowl if they had competent QB play, and I’m sure they know it. They had NE beaten if they hadn’t started playing so tight.  

All that to say, Cousins will have his choice of suitors but I think it’s safe to assume he wants as much $ as possible... and that’s why he’s out in Washington. 

One of the reasons they were ahead is that Bortles played an absolutely fantastic first half. I agree about the second half, but that wasn't all Bortles.

I don't quite agree with you about Cousins.  Cousins is out in Washington because he offered to play for $19 mil a season two years ago and Washington wasn't convinced yet and wanted to pay him $16 mil a season.  So he was pizzed after that and wouldn't take less than the franchise tag.

I don't think the guys is in money grubbing mode, he just didn't feel respected in Washington, didn't feel like they believed in him.  And truthfully, they didn't.  Everybody else in the world seems to though lol.

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18 minutes ago, Peyton said:

One of the reasons they were ahead is that Bortles played an absolutely fantastic first half. I agree about the second half, but that wasn't all Bortles.

I don't quite agree with you about Cousins.  Cousins is out in Washington because he offered to play for $19 mil a season two years ago and Washington wasn't convinced yet and wanted to pay him $16 mil a season.  So he was pizzed after that and wouldn't take less than the franchise tag.

I don't think the guys is in money grubbing mode, he just didn't feel respected in Washington, didn't feel like they believed in him.  And truthfully, they didn't.  Everybody else in the world seems to though lol.

Washington should have taken that deal. Now they’re paying the definition of mediciocrity a mint to QB a team that is not very spectacular top to bottom. That being said, not sure he wouldn’t have stayed if he got in the $27-28mil/year range he may be about to get. 

On Bortles, that dude has to drive Jax fans crazy. He is soooooo streaky. Very good for quarters at a time and very bad for games at a time. His accuracy, overall, is awful. I’m just a Joe blow armchair GM but I think Cousins is a significant upgrade over Bortles, especially considering ALL the other talent they have on offense. Bortles just can’t take advantage of it. Suffice it to say, several teams already mentioned will inquire about Cousins’ service but Denver and Jax would be very hard to beat with better QB play. 

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1 hour ago, Peyton said:

I am having a little trouble reconciling your "Kirk Cousins is just coming into the prime of his career at 30" with the opinion that Blake Bortles potential is fulfilled at 25.

When Kirk Cousins was the age that Blake Bortles is right now, he had a 1-3 career record in the NFL with 8 TDs and 10 INTs in 4 starts.  Nobody was that high on him.

Bortles is 25 and has struggled at time, but he also has a 4400 yard,  35 TD season on his resume already.  The kid is still growing.  He made some great back shoulder throws in that Pats game.

You really think an "at his age" comparison is appropriate between a 4th round pick drafted with 4 career starts to be a back up and a Top 5 pick with 4 years worth of mostly poor QB play? 

This line of thinking is how people talk themselves into sticking with bad QBs. Focusing on the "great back shoulder throws" and ignoring the other 85% of the tape. Watch the tape from his "4400 yard 35 TD season" and you see the real Bortles. 

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3 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

You really think an "at his age" comparison is appropriate between a 4th round pick drafted with 4 career starts to be a back up and a Top 5 pick with 4 years worth of mostly poor QB play? 

This line of thinking is how people talk themselves into sticking with bad QBs. Focusing on the "great back shoulder throws" and ignoring the other 85% of the tape. Watch the tape from his "4400 yard 35 TD season" and you see the real Bortles. 

Yeah I just don't have to time to study every team's game tape like most of ya'll.   I'll have to take ya'll's word for it that he sucks.

Somebody get Marrone on the phone and tell him he's making a 20 million dollar mistake next season.

But to answer your question...yes....I do think age is relevant.

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6 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

You really think an "at his age" comparison is appropriate between a 4th round pick drafted with 4 career starts to be a back up and a Top 5 pick with 4 years worth of mostly poor QB play? 

This line of thinking is how people talk themselves into sticking with bad QBs. Focusing on the "great back shoulder throws" and ignoring the other 85% of the tape. Watch the tape from his "4400 yard 35 TD season" and you see the real Bortles. 

I'm passing the torch to you man, I got nowhere with Peyton.  Good luck.

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1 minute ago, Peyton said:

Yeah I just don't have to time to study every team's game tape like most of ya'll.   I'll have to take ya'll's word for it that he sucks.

Somebody get Marrone on the phone and tell him he's making a 20 million dollar mistake next season.

But to answer your question...yes....I do think age is relevant.

I didnt say age is irrelevant. I asked if its appropriate to make an "age" comparison when talking about player progression and development. Because the two players were clearly in different situations at the age of 25. Cousins was 24 by the start of his rookie season...Bortles was 22. So theres two years right there. Bortles was an immediate starter, Cousins was not. 

However, both QBs are potentially available (although I agree, Bortles will be back in Jacksonville because lol) this offseason, both QBs have 62 games played, both QBs have over 2000 professional attempts. Age is relevant to some degree but Bortles being younger doesnt change the reality that Bortles has performed at a lower level than Cousins has. Nor does it make him more likely than Cousins to get better. 

 

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I realize the idea that a 25 year old player can still improve despite having 4 seasons under him is an extremely controversial opinion, but hey, I'm just a controversial dude.

Besides I'm not sure the guy was so terrible this year.  I don't study guys that closely, but the gurus at ESPN, who do, gave him a better QBR than Cousins this year.

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4 hours ago, athell said:

So are the Browns.

$30,000,000 seems like a lot.  But it’s not my money so **** it.

Thinking outside the box here.  This only applies if we have a qb who we absolutely love. Sign Ryan, trade him & our 1st rd pick to Cleveland for both 1st round picks & their 2nd.   Draft your qb of the future.  I love Ryan and don’t want him gone.  But use your GM hat for a second.  It lengthens our window by a decade if we hit on the qb.  Opens up CAP for our soon to be FA’s on defense.  Would Cleveland give up both 1st round picks?  And who would we pick at #10.

Downside: we can win a title with Ryan next year.  I’d still stick with ‘The Mattural’ 

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He wasnt terrible this year....he was "fine." The problem is that he's got 2+ seasons of terrible, some flashes here and there, and otherwise "meh" play. I'll tell you what though....he was pretty awful in that Buffalo game. 

I'm not gonna plant the flag for Cousins or anything. I think he's solid....sort of a lesser man's Matt Ryan. Maybe between Ryan and Dalton on the spectrum. But he's was legitimately pretty good in 15 and 16, and did reasonably well with a pretty limited supporting cast this year. He had some ugly flashes too (total meltdown late against NO was really really bad).  

If you're putting big dollars down on an attempt at upgrading your QB, I'm favoring the guy with three consecutive years with a YPA over 7.5 and a career YPA of 7.7 over a guy with a 6.7 YPA across 62 games in the easiest division in football. 

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16 minutes ago, MoFalconsFan56 said:

Maybe Ryan gives us a discount :/ lol

Bortles is set to make 18M if he stays in Jacksonville. Keenum will get over paid probably around 20-21M by some team desperate for a QB. Can Matt Ryan give a discount and play for 22 M? Go figure. 

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16 minutes ago, Peyton said:

I realize the idea that a 25 year old player can still improve despite having 4 seasons under him is an extremely controversial opinion, but hey, I'm just a controversial dude.

Besides I'm not sure the guy was so terrible this year.  I don't study guys that closely, but the gurus at ESPN, who do, gave him a better QBR than Cousins this year.

ESPN's QBR is notoriously flawed and should not be used in any argument for or against a QB's value or talent.

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6 hours ago, Peyton said:

I disagree that Cousins is going to get a bigger deal than Stafford.  Can't see that at all.

he's going to get an offer for over $30m/yr from Cleveland. The question is whether he goes with the money or the potential for a ring in Denver.

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3 minutes ago, Kayoh said:

he's going to get an offer for over $30m/yr from Cleveland. The question is whether he goes with the money or the potential for a ring in Denver.

Supposedly Denver and Kirk are close to terms...we will see...

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5 hours ago, athell said:

So are the Browns.

I live in Cleveland. There hasn't been a day since Thanksgiving where they haven't been talking about getting Cousins or Smith. Some one will throw a ton of money at him, deserving or not.

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5 minutes ago, Kayoh said:

he's going to get an offer for over $30m/yr from Cleveland. The question is whether he goes with the money or the potential for a ring in Denver.

He will most likely take 30M especially if it comes with boatload of Guaranteed money.

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Just now, falcons007 said:

He will most likely take 30M especially if it comes with boatload of Guaranteed money.

yeah, like if I'm cleveland I'm putting 5 years, $150m, $100m guaranteed on the table, and if Kirk doesn't bite I might even increase it.

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7 minutes ago, athell said:

Supposedly Denver and Kirk are close to terms...we will see...

Mike Shanahan thinks he will probably end up in DEN. He has links to both Cousins and Elway but in the end Money talks. 

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5 minutes ago, Kayoh said:

yeah, like if I'm cleveland I'm putting 5 years, $150m, $100m guaranteed on the table, and if Kirk doesn't bite I might even increase it.

Cleveland has 100M in cap spaces, top pick in the draft. They can afford to load up. 

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12 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Cleveland has 100M in cap spaces, top pick in the draft. They can afford to load up. 

The only thing that stops Cleveland from going crazy maybe the fact they got a new GM (Dorsey from the Chiefs) and maybe, just maybe, he doesn't pull a Cleveland in his first year and do something foolish.

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37 minutes ago, Internetallstar said:

The only thing that stops Cleveland from going crazy maybe the fact they got a new GM (Dorsey from the Chiefs) and maybe, just maybe, he doesn't pull a Cleveland in his first year and do something foolish.

You would think but you never know about Browns. Hue Jackson is desperate, he knows he is gone if they don't win lot of games. 

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7 hours ago, isproab said:

As far as Ryan goes, my only real concern is the length of the contract.  All of a sudden, it seems that everybody thinks that all the QBs in the top 10/15 can play "as long as and at a high level like Brady has done.  His longevity is part of why he is the "greatest QB" in NFL history.  I would be very cautious about locking up Ryan past 36 right now.  I can honestly see a 3 year extension and then evaluate again.  I know it is very unlikely to happen, but this new trend could see a lot of teams get themselves in trouble.  Eli Manning was thought of the same way two years ago then all of a sudden, his 35 year old year sees a big dip.  Sure he didn't have his guy, but his rating wasn't good.  Elie was a top 10 QB before ODB.

Use to be guys got 1 big deal.  Then some QBs started to get 2.  Now its up to three.  I understand the cap is up.  I don't mind you getting more per year than a lesser guy, but I would be cautious with the length.

IMHO, Ryan has peaked and 3 years should be it.

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6 hours ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Denver's expected to push for Cousins hard. Thats probably the best landing spot for him in terms of surrounding talent. 

Maybe not.  The Jets have a surging defense, a decent OL and they are in a market that will allow the face of the franchise to make a whole lot of money in endorsements.  Add that to the number of world-leaders in finance that he will meet, and you get a situation that could be extremely profitable.  

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