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Draft Wynn and sign a FA G and the OL is solidified


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43 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Maybe to folks like you, but certainly not to hardcore guys like me. We got pushed around way too much. 

I want (and I think Quinn wants) the best defense in football. We still have a long way to get there. 

What do you want in 1st round when Vea and Payne are long gone at #26?  Taven Bryan?

I know it’s really early but looking at the combinations right now of OG/DT or DT/OG, I just see a lot more flexibility if you take the OG first.  You might can even drop down to end of 1st rd and still get the OG.

Once Vea and Payne are gone, I am not sure there is another DT worthy of #26 - maybe Taven Bryan?

There are a host of DTs with upside that could probably be had in 2nd/3rd rounds like Tim Settle, Trenton Thompson and Lowell Louteleilei.

As far as having a dominant defense, the pieces are already in place in Grady, Beasley, Takk, Debo, Devondre, Tru, Alford, Neal and Allen - that is NINE positions of strength on the defense.

Like you, I want to see our defense become dominant and I want another DT whether we re-sign Poe or not.  I just believe that the best two options will be gone, I don’t want to burn a 2nd/3rd rounder to go get either of them and Falcons cannot afford to go pay a top of the market OG with Mack/Schraeder/Matthews all getting top dollar contracts for their positions.   

I also believe Wynn is a better OG than Bryan a DT.  Falcons aren’t drafting a CB, S, LB, Passrusher in 1st round - cannot see it.  There are no TEs worthy of #26.

Of course there is a small chance even Wynn is gone at #26 and if both he and Nelson gone, I am probably bugging out of there or maybe take Taven Bryan.

Of course history shows us Dimitroff loves moving up from the late 20’s - I believe he has done it every single time - moved up for Julio, for Trufant and for Takk - a perfect 3-for-3.   So maybe he does move up for Vea/Payne - if so, then we likely let Payne walk and signed a top OG.

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

Maybe to folks like you, but certainly not to hardcore guys like me. We got pushed around way too much. 

I want (and I think Quinn wants) the best defense in football. We still have a long way to get there. 

We gotta get better at stopping the run. We need to add a bruiser at LB and more DL. Hopefully find a playmaker at FS

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

Maybe to folks like you, but certainly not to hardcore guys like me. We got pushed around way too much. 

I want (and I think Quinn wants) the best defense in football. We still have a long way to get there. 

Yep. Acting like we’re two guards away from a super bowl is just weird. This defense needs to get better. We don’t need this defensive line getting manhandled in a key game like they did against the Eagles. Fixing the inconsistency of the defense is just as important to me as finding an upgrade at Guard. 

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18 hours ago, FalconFan13 said:


Schraeder is already resigned for a very long time.  He just did a new contract last year  he will next be a Fa in 2022

Contract Terms: 5 yr(s) / $31,500,000 Signing Bonus - Average Salary$6,300,000 GTD at Sign:$7,500,000 Total GTD:$12,500,000 Free Agent:2022 / UFA

you are correct --I mis-read the article at the AF home site--all FAs were listed in red at the left side--Schrader's name was at the left and in red so I miscounted him as a FA

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2 hours ago, g-dawg said:

What do you want in 1st round when Vea and Payne are long gone at #26?  Taven Bryan?

I know it’s really early but looking at the combinations right now of OG/DT or DT/OG, I just see a lot more flexibility if you take the OG first.  You might can even drop down to end of 1st rd and still get the OG.

Once Vea and Payne are gone, I am not sure there is another DT worthy of #26 - maybe Taven Bryan?

There are a host of DTs with upside that could probably be had in 2nd/3rd rounds like Tim Settle, Trenton Thompson and Lowell Louteleilei.

As far as having a dominant defense, the pieces are already in place in Grady, Beasley, Takk, Debo, Devondre, Tru, Alford, Neal and Allen - that is NINE positions of strength on the defense.

Like you, I want to see our defense become dominant and I want another DT whether we re-sign Poe or not.  I just believe that the best two options will be gone, I don’t want to burn a 2nd/3rd rounder to go get either of them and Falcons cannot afford to go pay a top of the market OG with Mack/Schraeder/Matthews all getting top dollar contracts for their positions.   

I also believe Wynn is a better OG than Bryan a DT.  Falcons aren’t drafting a CB, S, LB, Passrusher in 1st round - cannot see it.  There are no TEs worthy of #26.

Of course there is a small chance even Wynn is gone at #26 and if both he and Nelson gone, I am probably bugging out of there or maybe take Taven Bryan.

Of course history shows us Dimitroff loves moving up from the late 20’s - I believe he has done it every single time - moved up for Julio, for Trufant and for Takk - a perfect 3-for-3.   So maybe he does move up for Vea/Payne - if so, then we likely let Payne walk and signed a top OG.

LOL...so much for us agreeing to disagree, eh G? :rolleyes:

Assuming Vea/Payne are gone, Taven Bryan would be my choice at 26. ****, he may end up being my 1st choice anyway. With his skill set and a Little coaching,  He could end up being worthy of a top 10 pick. 

And we most likely will need to double dip at DL if we don’t sign Poe. 

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12 minutes ago, Vandy said:

LOL...so much for us agreeing to disagree, eh G? :rolleyes:

Assuming Vea/Payne are gone, Taven Bryan would be my choice at 26. ****, he may end up being my 1st choice anyway. With his skill set and a Little coaching,  He could end up being worthy of a top 10 pick. 

And we most likely will need to double dip at DL if we don’t sign Poe. 

my only criticism of Bryan - and it is not really a criticism - is he is more of a duplication of what you already get from Grady Jarrett.  Both Vea and Payne are more of your Nose Tackle types while Bryan is a 3-tech like Grady.  Don't think that our run defense would be very stout if Grady and Bryan were in there at the same time - however, having them both in on passing downs would be nice.

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7 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Doesn't mean we can't try. 

most of your teams with dominant defense aren't paying a QB $25mm/yr and a WR $17mm/yr much less all the other premium contracts we are paying on offense.

Look at Seattle (Russell Wilson on a rookie deal), Baltimore-2000(Dilfer/journeyman QB), Eagles this year(Carson Wentz on rookie deal), Vikings this year(plethora of mix/match QBs).

Even if we drafted and stocked the defensive roster this offseason thru draft/free agency - very hard to keep it altogether  for more than 2-3 years because a dominant defense requires a lot of premium pieces.

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

most of your teams with dominant defense aren't paying a QB $25mm/yr and a WR $17mm/yr much less all the other premium contracts we are paying on offense.

Look at Seattle (Russell Wilson on a rookie deal), Baltimore-2000(Dilfer/journeyman QB), Eagles this year(Carson Wentz on rookie deal), Vikings this year(plethora of mix/match QBs).

Even if we drafted and stocked the defensive roster this offseason thru draft/free agency - very hard to keep it altogether  for more than 2-3 years because a dominant defense requires a lot of premium pieces.

Defense wins championships

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4 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Defense wins championships

if Falcons had won the SB in 2016, would it have been because of their defense?  NO.   Did the Patriots win because of their defense?  You could make an argument but the answer there is also NO.    There are tons of examples of defense not winning the championship.  Falcons have consistently beaten the Seahawks having the better offense and worse defense.

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2 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

if Falcons had won the SB in 2016, would it have been because of their defense?  NO.   Did the Patriots win because of their defense?  You could make an argument but the answer there is also NO.    There are tons of examples of defense not winning the championship.  Falcons have consistently beaten the Seahawks having the better offense and worse defense.

That's because the Seahawks had an injured defense and turnstile oline. And yeah our offense stalled out so we lost because of their defense.

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37 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

my only criticism of Bryan - and it is not really a criticism - is he is more of a duplication of what you already get from Grady Jarrett.  Both Vea and Payne are more of your Nose Tackle types while Bryan is a 3-tech like Grady.  Don't think that our run defense would be very stout if Grady and Bryan were in there at the same time - however, having them both in on passing downs would be nice.

I agree. If we are replacing Poe we need to it the same type of player. The defense is already small. We can not afford to continue getting smaller. I would love to add another interior pass rusher but we a true NT before we look at that. 

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46 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

my only criticism of Bryan - and it is not really a criticism - is he is more of a duplication of what you already get from Grady Jarrett.  Both Vea and Payne are more of your Nose Tackle types while Bryan is a 3-tech like Grady.  Don't think that our run defense would be very stout if Grady and Bryan were in there at the same time - however, having them both in on passing downs would be nice.

I agree, but Bryan would replace Clay, not Poe. 

That’s why we may double dip there, if clay, Poe, Shelby, upshaw or some combination are gone. 

TD/Quinn will figure it all out. You and I agree OG needs to be repaired, we just disagree the best way of going about doing that. I wouldn’t cut my wrist or go into some convulsion of gnashing of teeth if your cuz Wynn ends up being the guy, but knowing Quinn What little (admitably) I do seriously doubt he goes OG in Rd 1 with the huge gapping home at DL we potentially have. 

Would your head spin off I’d we go Bryan Rd 1 and Settle Rd 2?

 

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5 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

I hear you man but what say the LOS guy your after either side isn't there? ( I don't have one guy though. At 26 that would be insane logic. The more I look at OG & DT especially, the more I salivate at the prospect of getting one heck of a football player.)   

I don't take next best I go too another area of the team where there is still a talented guy and beef up that area that's what I mean when I say add playmakers. (At 26 odds have it that you may not get the BEST ranked player at any position of need.  But what I do know is that we desperately need more talent infusion on both sides of the LOS. This class offers some amazing talent at DT, Edge Rusher & OG in the first two rounds. I just cannot justify Kirk here knowing the talent we'd be ignoring at a much more significant area of NEED)

Get more talent if the above isn't there look for the most talent it trumps everything hence why I looked in that WRer position. ( So we could potentially say the same thing about RB or Corner or Safety, but that doesn't help our most urgent needs. You are acting like there is only one or two studs out there at DT & OG & Edge? After examining the crop this year, it looks good for the Falcons areas of concern imo)

While we have Julio there's not really anything in the cupboard after him hence why I future proof it with Kirk and he just happens to cover STs aswell and he upgrades that also. ( I am the one who brought up his special teams ability as a return guy.  I am sold on him completely.  It will hurt to see him go elsewhere.  But at the same time, it will hurt more if we grab Kirk & ignore incredible LOS players.  The LOS is where great teams build first.  It also takes a ton of pressure off of the skill positions!)  

 

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31 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

most of your teams with dominant defense aren't paying a QB $25mm/yr and a WR $17mm/yr much less all the other premium contracts we are paying on offense.

Look at Seattle (Russell Wilson on a rookie deal), Baltimore-2000(Dilfer/journeyman QB), Eagles this year(Carson Wentz on rookie deal), Vikings this year(plethora of mix/match QBs).

Even if we drafted and stocked the defensive roster this offseason thru draft/free agency - very hard to keep it altogether  for more than 2-3 years because a dominant defense requires a lot of premium pieces.

I dunno about that...What wAs Denver paying Peyton when they won SB? And when ejway finally won?

I think/hope that’s what gonna happen for matt...a dominant D and a seasoned vet game manger in twilight of his career at QB. 

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13 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I agree, but Bryan would replace Clay, not Poe. 

That’s why we may double dip there, if clay, Poe, Shelby, upshaw or some combination are gone. 

TD/Quinn will figure it all out. You and I agree OG needs to be repaired, we just disagree the best way of going about doing that. I wouldn’t cut my wrist or go into some convulsion of gnashing of teeth if your cuz Wynn ends up being the guy, but knowing Quinn What little (admitably) I do seriously doubt he goes OG in Rd 1 with the huge gapping home at DL we potentially have. 

 

you know I will have 2-3 mock drafts between now and the actual draft and the first one will have Wynn but there will be some variations along the way. ;)

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10 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I dunno about that...What wAs Denver paying Peyton when they won SB? And when ejway finally won?

I think/hope that’s what gonna happen for matt...a dominant D and a seasoned vet game manger in twilight of his career at QB. 

it is possible to HAVE a dominant defense

it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep a dominant defense for more than 3-4 years.

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3 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

it is possible to HAVE a dominant defense

it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep a dominant defense for more than 3-4 years.

Agreed. Win a couple SBs during that window of time and then rebuild. 

Thats what pizzed me off blowing it last year with a dominant O of Ryan/Julio/Free all in their prime. Those opps don’t come around very often. 

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Just now, Vandy said:

Agreed. Win a couple SBs during that window of time and then rebuild. 

Thats what pizzed me off blowing it last year with a dominant O of Ryan/Julio/Free inntheir prime. Those opps don’t come around very often. 

the odds are always against winning a SB.   If we continue to make the right moves year after year, we will keep getting in the tournament(playoffs) - but the odds are always against you - regardless of the Patriots ability to make it seem easy.

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