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Sounds like DQ likes GA Guard Isaiah Wynn


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52 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

More picks in the draft isnt a myth...its basic economics. 

But your ultimate point, which I take to be "pick the right players and build a strong team" rather than "this one piece will fix everything" is spot-on, dude. 

This team isnt any one player away from greatness. Not a guard, not a WR, not a TE, not a DT (well...maybe like three of them). 

It's always going to be about how the pieces are developed and utilized. 

I go to a workshop these days. They showed something very interesting on that topic. 

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Yo i dont get it ... We are one of the most talented teams in the league... Its not alot of positions that we can draft  and the player can come in day 1 and make a impact day 1.... Guard is one of those positions if we get a good one....

I saw Dallas and Washington brought up... Brandon Schereff for washington is a stud.... Its not on him that washing Oline stay injured... The guy is a good player and Dallas has one of the better O-lines......

We are not asking a guard to come in and make a sucking O-Line better... We are asking a guard to help improve a already solid o-line

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1 minute ago, atljbo said:

Yo i dont get it ... We are one of the most talented teams in the league... Its not alot of positions that we can draft  and the player can come in day 1 and make a impact day 1.... Guard is one of those positions if we get a good one....

I saw Dallas and Washington brought up... Brandon Schereff for washington is a stud.... Its not on him that washing Oline stay injured... The guy is a good player and Dallas has one of the better O-lines......

We are not asking a guard to come in and make a sucking O-Line better... We are asking a guard to help improve a already solid o-line

There's wisdom in this. We're fortunate enough to have relatively few holes on the roster so we can really focus on finding the right player without having to draft a dude as a "repair." That doesnt mean we should draft a guard that we like over a defensive end that we LOVE, but it is worth looking at how any drafted player is going to fit into his spot on the field. And there are many many worse situations than to put a guard prospect that you really like into an OL between two pro bowl-level OL. 

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41 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

You can get different things from UDFAs. Sometimes, you find legitimate top notch players. Other times, you find valuable depth. For some positions, UDFA is the most efficient way to acquire talent (Kickers and FBs). 

That doesnt mean you rely on UDFAs to fill needs, but our philosophy toward UDFA should always be focused on finding undervalued talent. Because there are + starters at pretty much every position across the league that went undrafted. 

Absolutely, this is what I was alluding to as well. It would be pretty asinine to rely on UDFA to find a day one starting guard which is our immediate need. We are in a championship window and I rather find a permanent solution in rounds 1-3 rather than rely on us capturing lightening in a bottle.

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32 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

 

There's wisdom in this. We're fortunate enough to have relatively few holes on the roster so we can really focus on finding the right player without having to draft a dude as a "repair." That doesnt mean we should draft a guard that we like over a defensive end that we LOVE, but it is worth looking at how any drafted player is going to fit into his spot on the field. And there are many many worse situations than to put a guard prospect that you really like into an OL between two pro bowl-level OL. 

If i could i would draft a talented D-lineman in the first round of **** near every draft with the rotation that  we run ... My thing is getting your bang for your buck and getting 4-5 years of cheap labor....

 

This is a interesting draft tho.. I think the Clemson boys going back to school had an effect on the back end of the 1st round...

At the DT position...I like Poe but paying Grady 10-12 mil... To me it just doesnt make sense to pay Poe 8-10 mil...  With the DTs in the draft i like Payne and Vea ... They will most likely be gone before our pick but yo i also like Tim Settles from VT... I like Trenton Thompson.... I like B.J Hill ... Its some big body DTs that can give you some push up the middle that will be there in the 2nd round ....

But man im a big Taven Bryan fan ... He has to be coached up and i dont think he is the big body DT we want next to Grady but i think he could be that DE/DT coach has been searching HARD for

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1 hour ago, falcons007 said:

High first round G  picks have one of the  higher bust rates in draft genius. How about provide data or go look up stats GENIUS. 

Link?? My link seems to suggest guard is a pretty good pick

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft.amp.html

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43 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

 Scherff was drafted as a general OL but was permanently placed at guard by the time training camp rolled around. He wasnt drafted as a tackle and then had to be converted because he failed. And since he was drafted, their OL has been good+ and their offense, in general, has been good. Not his fault the defense has struggled. 

As for not working out for Dallas.....I'm not really sure how you can say that. They've had a dominant offensive line for 4 seasons, have two double digit win seasons, were a review replay away from a championship game appearance. That in the context of a pretty poorly coached team with less offensive talent than it gets credit for. 

I understand the value argument....the problem is that the "old saying" ignores the possibility that guards can represent significant value while still in the first round. So when Pittsburgh gets to snag David DeCastro in the 20s despite the fact that hes a better prospect at his position than pretty much everyone drafted in front of him, he's still representing great value. The Steelers added a multiple time All Pro talent for a fairly low cost. Thats what its about....finding good players. Most positions in the NFL are important enough to prioritize finding good players to man them. 

 

The question then comes Larry what do we do with Levitre is he worth letting hit the road ?

As I'm assuming Wynn being a left sided player that's where they'll start him right?

Personally even if we drafted Wynn I wouldn't want to let Levitre walk but economics is economics right?

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3 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

The question then comes Larry what do we do with Levitre is he worth letting hit the road ?

As I'm assuming Wynn being a left sided player that's where they'll start him right?

Personally even if we drafted Wynn I wouldn't want to let Levitre walk but economics is economics right?

this is the real question... i have noooo idea what the team does.... We cant keep him at his cap hit and he would have to be extended at a lower cost..... I also think Andy is good guard

 

I think Wynn can line up as a LG or RG

Even tho i like Wynn i wouldnt want Mack to have to worry about a rookie guard and Wes on each side... But again its all about the money

 

 

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Just now, kiwifalcon said:

The question then comes Larry what do we do with Levitre is he worth letting hit the road ?

As I'm assuming Wynn being a left sided player that's where they'll start him right?

Personally even if we drafted Wynn I wouldn't want to let Levitre walk but economics is economics right?

I'd be fine if we worked on getting Levitre back on a friendlier deal. Right now, his cap hit is $8.35m with a $7m salary. He's 32 years old. He's made ~$40 million over the course of his career. 

He struggled quite a bit after leaving Buffalo for Tennessee. Thereafter, he found a home in Atlanta. So he COULD have motivation to stay here and try to win a championship. So here's the sort of thing I would propose:

We sign Levitre to a 3yr, $18m extension with a $6-7m signing bonus. We spread that out over three years. Then we hit him with three years of escalating salaries bringing his total up to $18m

Y1 - SB: $2.3m Salary $1.5m ($1.35m left from previous prorate) = Cap Hit - $5.15m

Y2 - SB: $2.3m Salary $ $3.5m = Cap Hit = $5.8m

Y3 - SB: $2.3m Salary $ 6m = Cap Hit = $8.3m

This would free $3m up on the 2018 cap and would keep the LG position in pretty good shape for the next two years. If things go terribly, you can cut him after next year, eat ~$4.6 in dead money and free up a million and change. Most likely you cut him after Y2, eat $2.3 and free up $6m in space on the 2020 cap. 

Obviously it would be cooler if that 3-yr extension was for $12m or $15m. But I think both sides have incentive to get a mutually beneficial deal done to keep him around at a reasonable price. If he prefers to get paid the $7m+ or so he could probably command on the open market, then we have to let him walk. 

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4 minutes ago, atljbo said:

this is the real question... i have noooo idea what the team does.... We cant keep him at his cap hit and he would have to be extended at a lower cost..... I also think Andy is good guard

 

I think Wynn can line up as a LG or RG

Even tho i like Wynn i wouldnt want Mack to have to worry about a rookie guard and Wes on each side... But again its all about the money

 

 

I wouldn't start him at anywhere but LG.

I just think for a rookie to best succeed we need to put him in the best position to succeed and in my eyes swapping him from being a predominantly left sided to a right side in his first year as a pro wouldn't be good in my eyes.

Understand Schwietzer did exactly that but he had a whole off season to learn behind Chester I don't really see this happening here.

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2 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

I'd be fine if we worked on getting Levitre back on a friendlier deal. Right now, his cap hit is $8.35m with a $7m salary. He's 32 years old. He's made ~$40 million over the course of his career. 

He struggled quite a bit after leaving Buffalo for Tennessee. Thereafter, he found a home in Atlanta. So he COULD have motivation to stay here and try to win a championship. So here's the sort of thing I would propose:

We sign Levitre to a 3yr, $18m extension with a $6-7m signing bonus. We spread that out over three years. Then we hit him with three years of escalating salaries bringing his total up to $18m

Y1 - SB: $2.3m Salary $1.5m ($1.35m left from previous prorate) = Cap Hit - $5.15m

Y2 - SB: $2.3m Salary $ $3.5m = Cap Hit = $5.8m

Y3 - SB: $2.3m Salary $ 6m = Cap Hit = $8.3m

This would free $3m up on the 2018 cap and would keep the LG position in pretty good shape for the next two years. If things go terribly, you can cut him after next year, eat ~$4.6 in dead money and free up a million and change. Most likely you cut him after Y2, eat $2.3 and free up $6m in space on the 2020 cap. 

Obviously it would be cooler if that 3-yr extension was for $12m or $15m. But I think both sides have incentive to get a mutually beneficial deal done to keep him around at a reasonable price. If he prefers to get paid the $7m+ or so he could probably command on the open market, then we have to let him walk. 

i agree and he seems to realllly like this team and has found a good scheme fit again... I think we will try to extend him to around 5-6 mil a year

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6 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

 

I'd be willing to bet that the guards drafted in the first two rounds over the past 10 years or so have been significantly more effective than the top of the market guards signed to big deals have been. 

If it comes down to drafting a good guard prospect at 24 and paying him ~$2m a year for four years or giving Justin Pugh $7-9m a year for 3-5 years, sign me up for the draft option. Justin Pugh is "fine." You don't pay market prices for "fine" players. 

I highly doubt Justin Pugh is getting 7-9M coming back from Injury. The OG Players appear to get better with experience. There are lot of OG UDFA and selected in later rounds performing at high level with experience compared to very few first round picks. This is one of the reasons, Falcons can sign an experience OG as insurance policy, while developing the bench. Levitre, assuming he is healthy enough to come back next year, will be gone in 2019. Draft a OG in 2-3rd round in 2018 who can take his spot in 2019. 

 In any case the first round OG who played well in first year right after the draft is an exception.  In last few years, only guys like David Decastro, Kyle Long and Zach Martin are an exception. The last team to move up and select a guard was 49ers in 2016, they move up to 28 from 37 giving up 2,4 and 6 round picks to select Josh Garnet. Josh garnet is not even a starter going in to 2018 season. 

I hope Falcons pick BPA in first round with out trading up especially for an OG. 

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1 minute ago, falcons007 said:

25 years from 1990-2015. Try last 10 years. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2008&year_max=2017&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=64&pick_type=overall&pos[]=g&conference=any&show=all&order_by=default

These are all the guards drafted in the first two rounds in the last ten drafts EXCLUDING OL players who were not classified as Gs in PFR's database. That would most notably exclude Peat and Scherff but would also exclude the players like Pugh, Fluker, Joekel that were drafted as tackles before being kicked inside. 

There are a lot of quality players here. DeCastro is a multi-All Pro player. Iupati was an all pro. Zach Martin is an all pro. Kyle Long has been good+. Kevin Zeitler has been a good pro. Mike Pouncey has been a good pro. 

The only real busts in the first round have been Cooper and Warmack. And Warmack seems to have found a home in Philly, so maybe we cant call him a bust anymore. Cooper hasnt really caught on with any of the teams he's been on, and many of those teams are pretty solid talent guys. But its also important to remember that Cooper missed his entire rookie season because his leg exploded. Who knows how much that has to do with his career up to this point. 

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Just now, falcons007 said:

I don't know whats your problem with me, but you keep calling me names in every thread.  Go to pro-football reference, find all the stats you need and then we can discuss. 

Larry just posted what you were too scared to post. And again it shows you don't know what you're talking about. And show me where I called you a name? Or does Larry have to do that for you too? Lol

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What’s his weight again? Harlow was 303 (per nfl.com draft profile)  and Wes was 314 lbs ( again per NFL.COm draft profile). Here’s Wes’

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/wes-schweitzer?id=255637

It’s all a moot point if the Falcons like him...which is fine with me, although I don’t think at #26.

He’s definitely smaller than the last two they drafted.

 

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2 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2008&year_max=2017&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=64&pick_type=overall&pos[]=g&conference=any&show=all&order_by=default

These are all the guards drafted in the first two rounds in the last ten drafts EXCLUDING OL players who were not classified as Gs in PFR's database. That would most notably exclude Peat and Scherff but would also exclude the players like Pugh, Fluker, Joekel that were drafted as tackles before being kicked inside. 

There are a lot of quality players here. DeCastro is a multi-All Pro player. Iupati was an all pro. Zach Martin is an all pro. Kyle Long has been good+. Kevin Zeitler has been a good pro. Mike Pouncey has been a good pro. 

The only real busts in the first round have been Cooper and Warmack. And Warmack seems to have found a home in Philly, so maybe we cant call him a bust anymore. Cooper hasnt really caught on with any of the teams he's been on, and many of those teams are pretty solid talent guys. But its also important to remember that Cooper missed his entire rookie season because his leg exploded. Who knows how much that has to do with his career up to this point. 

I replied to you in other quote, OG playing at high level in year 1 is an exception. Take recent picks in Ifiedi, Josh Garnet from 2016 draft, those guys are on the way to being busts. 

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