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Sounds like DQ likes GA Guard Isaiah Wynn


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54 minutes ago, k-train said:

Tall tales, my man.

You can go to profootballreference & look at the draft history of every single team to see every single pick they've ever made. Only three teams used a 1st round pick on interior o-linemen more than twice over the past 25 years.

Those three teams???

The Steelers... had a record of .500 or better in 22 of 25 seasons, plus 4 Super Bowl appearances & 11 playoff appearances.
The Eagles... had a record of .500 or better in 21 of 25 seasons, plus 2 Super Bowl appearances & 10 playoff appearances
The Seahawks... had a record of .500 or better in 16 of 25 seasons, plus 3 Super Bowl appearances & 12 playoff appearances

The teams that took an OG or C in the first more often than anyone else over the past 25 years are among the most successful franchises in the NFL. Meanwhile teams like the Lions, Browns, Bucs, Chargers, Rams, Jags, 49ers, Texans, Raiders, etc. who have been some of the worst teams in that span have only taken an OG or C in the first round one time each in 25 years, if at all.

The Steelers took a G in 2012 DeCastro and Pouncey (Center) in 2010

The Seahawks took Ifedi in 2016 at #31

the Eagles took a bust G , named Danny Watkins in 2011

thats hardly a ringing endorsement for interior OL in the first as a baseline of success in the recent NFL era.

BTW, in what shape , form or fashion does going back to 1993 have Dittly squat with the current success of the teams you mentioned?

there were 12 rounds in the draft as recent as 1992.

kinda of a weird argument.

Im not saying that the interior OL has become more of a premium position, but it’s still clearly an area that can be addressed outside the first round.

BTW the Cleveland browns probably have more OL picks in first three rounds than any team, to include a first on Alex Mack (09) and a #3 overall for a future HOFer in Joe Thomas.

hows that hyper focus on OL working out for them?

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, RandomFan said:

I'll be fairly irate if we spend the #26 pick on a Guard, quite honestly. I say this every time because it's true, but good teams do not stay good teams by drafting OGs in the 1st round. If you've got the last 2 or 3 picks in the 1st round, then maybe, but other than that, just no...

But if we can get Wynn in the 2nd, I might be tempted. When all is said and done I do think he will probably be the 2nd best OG in the draft behind Nelson.

Some background for people that don't know. 2016 was the new OC and OL coaches 1st year at UGA, and they switched up to a style that wanted their linemen bigger and stronger than the previous regime. Wynn was a guard thru the 2016 season, moved to LT for this last season. 

I agree. If Wynn is, indeed, the target I think that I’d trade down. Or either trade back up in the second—which would be hard to do, most likely. His size is still not what most teams desire. He reminds me of Rodney Hudson. Ended up being a very nice player, and is a 2 Times pro bowl Center in the pros. Almost exact same size.

long term with Wynn’s agility and athleticism, I see him as heir to Alex Mack—and probably a very good if not possible All Pro type. 

The problem with drafting Wynn is we could pass on some very good players. You have to wonder if he’s worth passing on a very good with possibly high ceiling edge, CB, FS, athletic LB, TE or DT that could be there?

 

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3 hours ago, Knight of God said:

You guys talk as though we are a lineman away from greatness. OL is the magic bullet mentality. Its like more picks in the draft myths and and a ton of other fallacies.

Agree. Man, at our pick we could be looking at Ronnie Harrison, Justin reid, Marcus Davenport, Harold Landry, Sam Hubbard and a plethora of fantastic players just sitting there. 

Can you imagine Keanu and Harrison roaming that secondary ? Reid and Harrison add a playmaking dimension over a Rico, who we severely overpay if not careful 

Or Davenport’s Long athletic arse in our pass rush arsenal? Hubbard is a better Clayborn almost immediately. Landry is an athletic edge guy to bolster the rotation as well. 

i keep looking at our needs and the reality is we have Clayborn coming off a season that looks great, but is inflated by a six sack game against a hapless cowboy team. Brooks Reed has a $5.4m cap hit at age 30, coming off a slightly better than Kroy Biermann  year, and Shelby and Crawford offer little in the way of pass rush. 

In short, why overpay Clayborn, and how much longer do you pay Reed fairly big dollars? I could see us grabbing a pass rusher in the first over an OG. That gives Takk and the rook on cheap deals with a 5th year option.

end of the day 39 sacks is pretty good, but take out Clayborn’s freak gigantic day and it’s a lot less impressive. Ditto on INTs and FFs. We had a whopping -2 giveaway/takeaway. That’s not yet a championship defense.

we need a defensive playmaker to get over that next hurdle. So how does picking a G in the first help that?

or let’s go even further, we have Sanu, JJ, and Hoop as our receiving threats. The Hardy love is simply way overrated. How about Teco who’s going into contract year—do you pass on a Sony Michel or Nick Chubb? Why would you? 

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1 hour ago, k-train said:

Only three teams used a 1st round pick on interior o-linemen more than twice over the past 25 years.
 

And you think this helps your argument? LOL. As I said, good teams that know how to draft well don't take OG's in the 1st round - unless it's at the very end of the round on occassion. It's not a premium position, never has been, probably never will be.

I'd like to point out that I said Guard, not Center. Center has become a more important position in the last decade.

Quote

The argument against taking a guard in the first round is simple enough.

“When you roll out a starting 22, you would probably put the two guard positions, in terms of their impact on the game, at [Nos.] 21 and 22,” Savage said

 

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2 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

And you think this helps your argument? LOL. As I said, good teams that know how to draft well don't take OG's in the 1st round - unless it's at the very end of the round on occassion. It's not a premium position, never has been, probably never will be.

I'd like to point out that I said Guard, not Center. Center has become a more important position in the last decade.

 

He overinflated his argument btw. Those teams he cited haven’t drafted very many interior OL over the last few years. Pouncey btw was an Uber prospect at OC. The Seahawks drafted Ifedi at #31. The Eagles busted in the Watkins pick, an Uber athletic OG...the Cowboys are probably the most invested in OL in general, and one was an OC (Frederick) , one an Uber OG (Martin) and the other a LT very high (Smith)

in short, teams don’t use the first to stock up on interior guys. And a 25 year time span is ludicrous to use. ****, the Pats sucked then as did all the teams he listed in 1993. That was the era of the cowboys and their triplets. A high pick rb, WR and QB and super studs on defense lol

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9 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Draft him in the first then?

Wynn is not a 1st round talent. I’d be fine with him in round 2.

Not a fan of drafting interior OL in round 1, but if we were going that way I would draft someone like Ohio State C/G Billy Price to plug in at guard and eventually be Mack’s successor at C. Pro’s speculate wynn could play C, but he plays like a guard to me. 

But hopefully Rd 1,  we go BPA which will most likely lean on defensive side and draft interior offensive line later in draft. 

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16 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Wynn is not a 1st round talent. I’d be fine with him in round 2.

Not a fan of drafting interior OL in round 1, but if we were going that way I would draft someone like Ohio State C/G Billy Price to plug in at guard and eventually be Mack’s successor at C. Pro’s speculate wynn could play C, but he plays like a guard to me. 

But hopefully Rd 1,  we go BPA which will most likely lean on defensive side and draft interior offensive line later in draft. 

Agree. I love Wynn. But the fact is he is an undersized guy. That’ll factor into a lot of teams’ evaluation. It did on Rodney Hudson. And, whole Hudson has been good, KC let him walk. He does get overwhelmed by bigger DTs, and his final pro position was OC.

i agree if we’re going interior line, I want Price. He’s powerful, got a great frame and an accomplished OC and OG. Literally plug and play

also looking at the Falcons last few years of OL, I’m noticing a trend of 6’4” to 6’5” and in the 305-315 pound range. 

Levitre is the lone “smallish “ dude, he’s 6’2” 305...wynn)s size. Levitre was a second rounder btw. 

Mack is 6’4” 315...a tall and athletic OC.

Sweitzer, Garland and Harlow all fit that size range. I’m not saying that size range is the final standard, but isn’t it telling that they keep collecting interior guys that are that size range?

Plus, if you look at Price he just looks like our lean type of OL with defined muscle mass...that reads weird lol

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2 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Agree. I love Wynn. But the fact is he is an undersized guy. That’ll factor into a lot of teams’ evaluation. It did on Rodney Hudson. And, whole Hudson has been good, KC let him walk. He does get overwhelmed by bigger DTs, and his final pro position was OC.

i agree if we’re going interior line, I want Price. He’s powerful, got a great frame and an accomplished OC and OG. Literally plug and play

also looking at the Falcons last few years of OL, I’m noticing a trend of 6’4” to 6’5” and in the 305-315 pound range. 

Levitre is the lone “smallish “ dude, he’s 6’2” 305...wynn)s size. Levitre was a second rounder btw. 

Mack is 6’4” 315...a tall and athletic OC.

Sweitzer, Garland and Harlow all fit that size range. I’m not saying that size range is the final standard, but isn’t it telling that they keep collecting interior guys that are that size range?

Plus, if you look at Price he just looks like our lean type of OL with defined muscle mass...that reads weird lol

LOL on that last part!

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11 minutes ago, KCartledge85 said:

Question - Why does this say Quinn likes Wynn? There is no direct quote from Quinn regarding Wynn.

No there is not, plus I’m not completely sold that the falcons are super hard up on a G. They took Harlow in the fourth. Predictably he Red-shirted. Garland and Wes both had good moments. Wes was a first year starter btw. Levitre is an 8 plus million dollar cap hit. And when healthy good. You still have Sambraillo in the mix, as well. 

Could we draft an OG or OG/OC? Sure. Is it a first round pick? That’s debatable. Plus, we have some pass rusher issues to deal with. Clayborn isn’t worth a big time deal. Take away his freakish 6 sack performance, he’s had a mediocre year. Shelby isn’t a pass rush threat. Crawford was moved to the interior (we keep forgetting about that); and it’ll be hard to pay Reed big money for his Biermann-like output, 

Rico is up for contract. So even if we tender him, do you want to commit big dollars to him? Kazee looks like a nb.

and our TEs beyond Hoop are questionable. Saubert was a “stash and hope” guy. Levine is what he is.

who are receiving threats beyond JJ and Sanu?

in short, lots of areas we can add capability and have need beyond the OG position in the first round. 

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1 minute ago, MSalmon said:

No there is not, plus I’m not completely sold that the falcons are super hard up on a G. They took Harlow in the fourth. Predictably he Red-shirted. Garland and Wes both had good moments. Wes was a first year starter btw. Levitre is an 8 plus million dollar cap hit. And when healthy good. You still have Sambraillo in the mix, as well. 

Could we draft an OG or OG/OC? Sure. Is it a first round pick? That’s debatable. Plus, we have some pass rusher issues to deal with. Clayborn isn’t worth a big time deal. Take away his freakish 6 sack performance, he’s had a mediocre year. Shelby isn’t a pass rush threat. Crawford was moved to the interior (we keep forgetting about that); and it’ll be hard to pay Reed big money for his Biermann-like output, 

Rico is up for contract. So even if we tender him, do you want to commit big dollars to him? Kazee looks like a nb.

and our TEs beyond Hoop are questionable. Saubert was a “stash and hope” guy. Levine is what he is.

who are receiving threats beyond JJ and Sanu?

in short, lots of areas we can add capability and have need beyond the OG position in the first round. 

Good post. A lot of gaps will need to get filled this offseason. 

Agree with everything except the Wes and garland “good moments” part. I thought both were horrible and need replacing, hopefully through FA and a 2nd-3rd round pick. 

And as bad as they were, Harlow not even sniffing a snap does not speak well for him. 

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6'2" and 308 pounds isn't close to undersized for an OG. Come on man... The average size of all OL's is around 6'4" and 315, and that is including the usually taller OT's.

Let's look at Wynn's exact measurements though.

  • Height: 6024 (6'2.5")
  • Weight: 308
  • Hand size: 8 1/2
  • Arm Length: 33 1/8
  • Wingspan: 79 1/8

He's got some smaller hands, but other than that he stacks up right about average for an NFL OG. The wingspan and arm length are actually pretty good, and those are more important than height. So can we please let this bad myth die that he's undersized.

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3 hours ago, k-train said:

Tall tales, my man.

You can go to profootballreference & look at the draft history of every single team to see every single pick they've ever made. Only three teams used a 1st round pick on interior o-linemen more than twice over the past 25 years.

Those three teams???

The Steelers... had a record of .500 or better in 22 of 25 seasons, plus 4 Super Bowl appearances & 11 playoff appearances.
The Eagles... had a record of .500 or better in 21 of 25 seasons, plus 2 Super Bowl appearances & 10 playoff appearances
The Seahawks... had a record of .500 or better in 16 of 25 seasons, plus 3 Super Bowl appearances & 12 playoff appearances

The teams that took an OG or C in the first more often than anyone else over the past 25 years are among the most successful franchises in the NFL. Meanwhile teams like the Lions, Browns, Bucs, Chargers, Rams, Jags, 49ers, Texans, Raiders, etc. who have been some of the worst teams in that span have only taken an OG or C in the first round one time each in 25 years, if at all.

Great point. Interior OL specially center are underrated. Zach Martin was a big reason Ezekiel Elliot led the nfl in rushing yards and has been a Breast. I am sure thr steelers don't regret drafting de castro high either. 

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28 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

6'2" and 308 pounds isn't close to undersized for an OG. Come on man... The average size of all OL's is around 6'4" and 315, and that is including the usually taller OT's.

Let's look at Wynn's exact measurements though.

  • Height: 6024 (6'2.5")
  • Weight: 308
  • Hand size: 8 1/2
  • Arm Length: 33 1/8
  • Wingspan: 79 1/8

He's got some smaller hands, but other than that he stacks up right about average for an NFL OG. The wingspan and arm length are actually pretty good, and those are more important than height. So can we please let this bad myth die that he's undersized.

That’s rodney Hudson size. The wingspan is pretty good. He’s average to below average size for many teams. Our team? Yeah, we have Levitre who’s comparable in size. 

Levitre had bigger hands (9.5) and shorter arms 32.5. What’s wynns explosion metrics and bench press projecting at?

and, like it or not, he’s undersized compared to our last two draft picks on interior OL(Schweitzer and Harlow).

 

 

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4 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

That’s rodney Hudson size. The wingspan is pretty good. He’s average to below average size for many teams. Our team? Yeah, we have Levitre who’s comparable in size. 

Levitre had bigger hands (9.5) and shorter arms 32.5. What’s wynns explosion metrics and bench press projecting at?

and, like it or not, he’s undersized compared to our last two draft picks on interior OL(Schweitzer and Harlow)

 

He’s shorter than what he’s listed at  6’2” as well.

Bit If still there, I’d love to grab him in Round 2. He would be a nice upgrade at a position of need.

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20 minutes ago, osiruz said:

Great point. Interior OL specially center are underrated. Zach Martin was a big reason Ezekiel Elliot led the nfl in rushing yards and has been a Breast. I am sure thr steelers don't regret drafting de castro high either. 

Great points? It’s not like any of the teams listed beyond the cowboys habitually drafted interior OL recently, beyond the Seahawks, and Ifedi has struggled mightily 

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6 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Great points? It’s not like any of the teams listed beyond the cowboys habitually drafted interior OL recently, beyond the Seahawks, and Ifedi has struggled mightily 

Steelers and bengals do. They both have dominating Oline but suffer from incompetent play at QB, and bad coaching.

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1 hour ago, MSalmon said:

He overinflated his argument btw. Those teams he cited haven’t drafted very many interior OL over the last few years. Pouncey btw was an Uber prospect at OC. The Seahawks drafted Ifedi at #31. The Eagles busted in the Watkins pick, an Uber athletic OG...the Cowboys are probably the most invested in OL in general, and one was an OC (Frederick) , one an Uber OG (Martin) and the other a LT very high (Smith)

in short, teams don’t use the first to stock up on interior guys. And a 25 year time span is ludicrous to use. ****, the Pats sucked then as did all the teams he listed in 1993. That was the era of the cowboys and their triplets. A high pick rb, WR and QB and super studs on defense lol

Look, dude said only bad teams draft interior o-line in the first. My argument was just showing that statement to be false. Nothing more, nothing less really.

In general teams don't take interior linemen in the first... I was never trying to say that's not accurate. HeII, that's why I had to go back so far to find someone that's done it four times. It's rare. But the argument had nothing to do with the rarity of occurrence. It had everything to do with the quality of teams who have used a first on interior o-line. I was pointing out that yes in fact, good teams do it too, and actually a few have done it a bit more frequently than anyone... including the consistently bad teams.

And it you wanna just put a shorter time frame on it, fine... that just shows that some good teams do it, and some good teams don't. Some bad teams do it, and some bad teams don't. But the point remains, taking an interior o-lineman in the 1st is not inclusive to garbage teams.

The reality is that occasionally there is a guard or center who is actually worth spending a first on... not often, but it happens. Sure the value might not quite be what it is compared to other positions, but if there's a potential perennial All-pro guard sitting there & it's considered a position of need, and the DT's, DEs, etc.still available are all just kinda average... I can fully understand why some teams choose to buck the traditional logic & go get the guard.. 

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4 minutes ago, osiruz said:

Steelers and bengals do. They both have dominating Oline but suffer from incompetent play at QB, and bad coaching.

And the Steelers haven’t drafted an interior OL since 2012. David Decastro. They drafted an OC in 2010 (Pouncey) in first round.

ben Roethlisberger is incompetent? Ok, what are your standards if competence 

For the bengals Boling  (G) and bodine (center) 4th rounders, Fisher (RT) a second rounder, and Ogbeughi (LT) is the only first rounder.

they let the last interior OL they drafted in the first round walk. Zeitler.

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